High Court bid to remove yellow plates on Gatsos
28 October 2002, 10:21 AM
#1
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Has anyone seen what these loonies are trying to do!
These idiots are trying to overturn the ruling that speed cameras should be clearly marked, because they claim motorists only slow down when they see them. They also claim that speed ALWAYS results in accidents!
What are these people on?
The ruling was made in an effort, albeit a pathetic one, to avoid claims that camera sites are often based on revenue, and not safety.
I just can't believe the damage that's been done to this country over the last few years. Unless you're in a minority, the government simply don't give a toss [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Josh
These idiots are trying to overturn the ruling that speed cameras should be clearly marked, because they claim motorists only slow down when they see them. They also claim that speed ALWAYS results in accidents!
What are these people on?
The ruling was made in an effort, albeit a pathetic one, to avoid claims that camera sites are often based on revenue, and not safety.
I just can't believe the damage that's been done to this country over the last few years. Unless you're in a minority, the government simply don't give a toss [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Josh
28 October 2002, 10:24 AM
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I think Gatso cameras are very important.
So much so that since we've had some bad weather lately, I have been going around and putting protective bin bags over them.
We don't want the poor little things getting wet do we?
So much so that since we've had some bad weather lately, I have been going around and putting protective bin bags over them.
We don't want the poor little things getting wet do we?
28 October 2002, 10:49 AM
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That sucks [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
The reason they had that bright yellow plate on in the first place was to show that it was an "accident blackspot" so removing it would increase the chances of accidents and so making britains roads less safe.....
Tony
The reason they had that bright yellow plate on in the first place was to show that it was an "accident blackspot" so removing it would increase the chances of accidents and so making britains roads less safe.....
Tony
28 October 2002, 10:51 AM
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I can see this going two ways:
1 - protestors told not to be silly, they're pointing out dangers, not revenue generators
2 - protestors told "yes, true, let's look at other ways of policing speed" and magically more and more specs systems start appearing.
Stupidity, sheer stupidity...
1 - protestors told not to be silly, they're pointing out dangers, not revenue generators
2 - protestors told "yes, true, let's look at other ways of policing speed" and magically more and more specs systems start appearing.
Stupidity, sheer stupidity...
28 October 2002, 11:01 AM
#6
I'm sure that at least one motoring organisation has asked the government why we can't have signs with "Accident Blackspot" on them?
I seem to remember one, an official one on the A2 at a spot called "Death Hill". It certainly made people slow down.
Or how about something along the lines of what they do in France? A large sign telling you how many people have been killed on that particular stretch of road, then smaller, but life-size, human figure shapes, representing the dead at each accident location. THAT certainly made me think twice!
So why can't WE have something like this?? Simple, really. If you admit that a section of road is at fault, then you have to spend money, and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!
Far, far simpler to make spurious claims that it's the driver's fault, and leave it at that.
Oh, and if you can actually MAKE some extra money out of that section of road too.....................
Cynical mode
ff
[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Alcazar
I seem to remember one, an official one on the A2 at a spot called "Death Hill". It certainly made people slow down.
Or how about something along the lines of what they do in France? A large sign telling you how many people have been killed on that particular stretch of road, then smaller, but life-size, human figure shapes, representing the dead at each accident location. THAT certainly made me think twice!
So why can't WE have something like this?? Simple, really. If you admit that a section of road is at fault, then you have to spend money, and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!
Far, far simpler to make spurious claims that it's the driver's fault, and leave it at that.
Oh, and if you can actually MAKE some extra money out of that section of road too.....................
Cynical mode
ff[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Alcazar
28 October 2002, 01:40 PM
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i'm with you guys. If they are for safety then lets tell everyone make them easy to see.
This loonie bunch is transport 2000.there argument isnt even logical as was pointed out above.
I am having an argument with birmingham council at the moment who want more gatsco's rather than invest in roads and road safety engineering.
Its really crap they have taken a worthwhile safety campaign and turned it to revenue generation.it stinks. meanwhile we have carjacking,muggings and robberies ...grrr!!
sheepsplitter more power to your bin bag!!
[Edited by navigator - 10/28/2002 1:41:57 PM]
This loonie bunch is transport 2000.there argument isnt even logical as was pointed out above.
I am having an argument with birmingham council at the moment who want more gatsco's rather than invest in roads and road safety engineering.
Its really crap they have taken a worthwhile safety campaign and turned it to revenue generation.it stinks. meanwhile we have carjacking,muggings and robberies ...grrr!!
sheepsplitter more power to your bin bag!!
[Edited by navigator - 10/28/2002 1:41:57 PM]
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28 October 2002, 01:50 PM
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If hiding them was the correct thing to do, then why don't they hide traffic lights and road signs?
I can live with the corrupted mindset that refuses to believe that speed cameras exist for any other reason than revenue generation. What annoys me is that while we're wasting money on these stupid schemes, people are still dying unnecessarily on public roads.
I can live with the corrupted mindset that refuses to believe that speed cameras exist for any other reason than revenue generation. What annoys me is that while we're wasting money on these stupid schemes, people are still dying unnecessarily on public roads.
28 October 2002, 03:54 PM
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Not that i would ever condone, but...
Why dont people just have a niece cheap Yellow spray can from Halfords and make them visible. If it happens to 'Accidentally' cover the camera hole then so be it...
Why dont people just have a niece cheap Yellow spray can from Halfords and make them visible. If it happens to 'Accidentally' cover the camera hole then so be it...
28 October 2002, 04:30 PM
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these http://www.transport2000.org.uk/are ******* insane there is no logic to any of their arguments they immediatley associate speeding to a criminal act!!!!!!
[Edited by mattstant - 10/28/2002 4:34:27 PM]
Vicky Cann, Assistant Director of Transport 2000 said: “The Government has been backed into a corner by the motoring lobby over speed cameras. In no other area of criminal enforcement do criminals get warned that they might be prosecuted; so why are speeding motorists any different? The danger of these guidelines is that speeding motorists will brake before a yellow camera and then speed away after it, knowing they are ‘safe’ from prosecution.”
28 October 2002, 04:49 PM
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Heres my opinion ......... Everyone should carry a can of petrol and a couple of spare tyres in thier boot, coz your average speed camera can suffer from frost bite as the winter months set in :->
28 October 2002, 05:17 PM
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Surely the answer to these problems is to visit the Transport2000 website to see what campaigns they are running, then write to whoever they suggest writing to and suggest the direct opposite?
At the moment they want us to write to our MPs supporting the introduction of the Select Committees recomendations one of those being repainting cameras grey.
Therefore we should write to our MP urging him/her not to this motion, and indeed to protest against the proliferation of these revenue creators
At the moment they want us to write to our MPs supporting the introduction of the Select Committees recomendations one of those being repainting cameras grey.
Therefore we should write to our MP urging him/her not to this motion, and indeed to protest against the proliferation of these revenue creators
28 October 2002, 05:25 PM
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Personally, I wouldn't mind if they did hide the things, providing they were used on accident blackspots, residential areas and near schools.
However, given that the only one sensibly placed in Aylesbury (outside a school) hasn't been switched on in two years, I think it's safe to assume that they are there simply to generate income. Until that changes, transport 2000 can go **** themselves.
People try to blame all accidents on speed, in the same way the Government tries to blame cars for the world's polution as an excuse to tax us off the roads. In both cases they are so far off the mark it's unreal. Industry actually causes far more emvironmental damage, and yet companies that polute rivers, and destroy ecosystems, get fined such a ludicrously small amounts that they have no incentive to chance anything, leaving the motorist to foot the bill.
As usual, Tony's Cronies use spin to try to hide and manipulate the real figures. A perfect example is their announcement that the waiting times in A&E departments have been reduced to meet their targets. If that's the case, why did 80% of consultants questioned by the BMA state that they felt waiting times were increasing
Josh
However, given that the only one sensibly placed in Aylesbury (outside a school) hasn't been switched on in two years, I think it's safe to assume that they are there simply to generate income. Until that changes, transport 2000 can go **** themselves.
People try to blame all accidents on speed, in the same way the Government tries to blame cars for the world's polution as an excuse to tax us off the roads. In both cases they are so far off the mark it's unreal. Industry actually causes far more emvironmental damage, and yet companies that polute rivers, and destroy ecosystems, get fined such a ludicrously small amounts that they have no incentive to chance anything, leaving the motorist to foot the bill.
As usual, Tony's Cronies use spin to try to hide and manipulate the real figures. A perfect example is their announcement that the waiting times in A&E departments have been reduced to meet their targets. If that's the case, why did 80% of consultants questioned by the BMA state that they felt waiting times were increasing
Josh
28 October 2002, 06:03 PM
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What frustrates me is that I bet none of them have ever driven more than a handful of miles in their lives. We're talking Sunday drivers, who pootle to the shops at 5 mph admiring the scenery, blissfuly unaware of the rapidly forming queue of irate drivers behind them.
THEY ******* CAUSE ALL THE ACCIDENTS THE USELESS DONKEYS!!
[rant off]
THEY ******* CAUSE ALL THE ACCIDENTS THE USELESS DONKEYS!!
[rant off]
28 October 2002, 06:42 PM
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I don't get it, you see a speed camera and slow down.....that's a result isn't it?
Surely a camera that generates absolutely no money at all is 100% efficient?
I still think they're a bag of **** and we'd be better off without them, more time should be spent educating all the sh*t drivers out there
Bob
Surely a camera that generates absolutely no money at all is 100% efficient?
I still think they're a bag of **** and we'd be better off without them, more time should be spent educating all the sh*t drivers out there
Bob
28 October 2002, 06:46 PM
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I'd actually welcome them spraying a camera near where I live grey again,because it would then be more visible again The yellow paint has actually made it less noticable from a distance
The yellow paint has actually made it less noticable from a distance
28 October 2002, 06:51 PM
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this Vicky bird is actually wrong about prior warning of prosecution for criminals.
Just look at trespassing signs and places where parking tickets are required , break these and we're all told we are liable to prosecution.
She doesn't deserve to be called Vicky. VBH - now we're talking a real Vicky.
Just look at trespassing signs and places where parking tickets are required , break these and we're all told we are liable to prosecution.
She doesn't deserve to be called Vicky. VBH - now we're talking a real Vicky.
28 October 2002, 06:58 PM
#22
JoshL: Re: waiting times at hospitals.
I have recently been "lucky" enough to have to accompany my old-boy on one or two block bookings to see a consultant about his eyes. On the second visit, I became intrigued as to why we were moved from one waiting area to another, just like the first time. The nurse on duty was a young lady I knew from my previous line of work, and she very quietly explained that, so long as you don't wait above the prescribed time IN ONE PLACE, they can say that the waiting time is below the required minimum.
Don't talk to me about New Labour "spin". I do remember the Tory years, and wouldn't want them back, but lying is lying is New Labour!!
Sorry, but that's how I feel.
Alcazar[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
I have recently been "lucky" enough to have to accompany my old-boy on one or two block bookings to see a consultant about his eyes. On the second visit, I became intrigued as to why we were moved from one waiting area to another, just like the first time. The nurse on duty was a young lady I knew from my previous line of work, and she very quietly explained that, so long as you don't wait above the prescribed time IN ONE PLACE, they can say that the waiting time is below the required minimum.
Don't talk to me about New Labour "spin". I do remember the Tory years, and wouldn't want them back, but lying is lying is New Labour!!
Sorry, but that's how I feel.
Alcazar[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
28 October 2002, 07:17 PM
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"Both groups believe many drivers brake when they catch a glimpse of a yellow box on the road ahead, making life dangerous for drivers behind."
So we had better take the calibration lines off the road as well
"In 2000, 3,400 people were killed on the UK's roads but MPs say that number could be reduced to less than 1,000 with the right measures."
So WHY has the number of fatalities INCREASED since the mass introduction of speed cameras?
Also, THREE TIMES that number are killed in hospitals due to infections caused by poor hygiene (the superbug) - so maybe they could start there first?
"Transport 2000"
Well, that's two years out of date already
tossers [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
mb
So we had better take the calibration lines off the road as well
"In 2000, 3,400 people were killed on the UK's roads but MPs say that number could be reduced to less than 1,000 with the right measures."
So WHY has the number of fatalities INCREASED since the mass introduction of speed cameras?
Also, THREE TIMES that number are killed in hospitals due to infections caused by poor hygiene (the superbug) - so maybe they could start there first?
"Transport 2000"
Well, that's two years out of date already
tossers [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
mb
28 October 2002, 10:39 PM
#24
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Alcazar.
Tell me about it. In the dark, damp, distant past I was a nurse myself.
Personally, I feel the Tories did alot of good, and alot of bad. However, so far, Labour seem only to have done harm. I'd like to think that if they had long enough they might get something right, but I don't think I'll live long enough to see it. IMHO of course.
Josh
Tell me about it. In the dark, damp, distant past I was a nurse myself.
Personally, I feel the Tories did alot of good, and alot of bad. However, so far, Labour seem only to have done harm. I'd like to think that if they had long enough they might get something right, but I don't think I'll live long enough to see it. IMHO of course.
Josh
28 October 2002, 10:56 PM
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The only time they catch REAL criminals is when they are speeding!
Ring the Police and tell them you're house has been robbed and they might send someone round later that day/night (if not too busy)
Tell them a Gatso has been vandalised and they will be there asap
Ring the Police and tell them you're house has been robbed and they might send someone round later that day/night (if not too busy)
Tell them a Gatso has been vandalised and they will be there asap
28 October 2002, 11:58 PM
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Has anyone looked into who Transport 2000 really are? Is it not possible that they have their own motives for wanting to make private motoring a misery and are just using the safety issue as a cover? Very Bliar of them...
Perhaps supporting the ABD would be a good idea. At least then there might be one voice standing up for the motorist against the massed choirs of lunacy that are all the other groups that loby against us.
Perhaps supporting the ABD would be a good idea. At least then there might be one voice standing up for the motorist against the massed choirs of lunacy that are all the other groups that loby against us.
29 October 2002, 08:11 AM
#27
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Indeed - join the ABD, it's about the only organisation that advocates improved driving standards and education over hidden revenue cameras, speed bumps, traffic calming and so on. You can sign up on their web site here. It only takes a moment, and it is a way to get your voice heard.
Andy.
Andy.
30 October 2002, 01:56 PM
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How about this. Based on the following 'facts':
1) Speed cameras are for reducing accidents in renowned blackspots
2) Speed cameras are, ahem, not for cash revenue...
3) Blackspots are not ideal places for going too fast, whether speeding or not
4) Seeing a speed camera is a very roundabout way of announcing that you are entering a blackspot
5) Danger/Risk is a function of inappropriate driving, whether that be *excessive* speed or driving into a bus stop
6) If another road is not an accident blackspot, then it is by definition safer to go faster there...
Disregarding any opinions of whether speed limits are too high/low, it seems reasonable to:
1) Have a sign that says "Accident Blindspot" either side of it
2) Put cameras of whatever colour you want, between the Blackspot signs
If it truly is a blackspot, surely this is the key point that should be made clear, rather than just being inferred indirectly by (a) seeing threatening obvious/yellow cameras, or (b) having just been been caught out by a hidden/grey camera - "You have just driven too fast through an unusually dangerous road" Thanks for the warning...
Knowing that you're driving through a blackspot, you drive that much more attentively, which perhaps brings your speed down a little. Flagrant disregard of such obvious, honest blackspot warnings (i.e. massive speeding) could then be rightfully assumed to be a bad thing...
Surely education and prevention is better than punishment...
I'd be happy to be restricted to 20 mph in a crowded city street, and it seems equally reasonable to be allowed to go faster than 60 on a clear, dry, well-lit, well-maintained, wide, safe country road
[Edited by Dodge - 10/30/2002 2:00:58 PM]
1) Speed cameras are for reducing accidents in renowned blackspots
2) Speed cameras are, ahem, not for cash revenue...
3) Blackspots are not ideal places for going too fast, whether speeding or not
4) Seeing a speed camera is a very roundabout way of announcing that you are entering a blackspot
5) Danger/Risk is a function of inappropriate driving, whether that be *excessive* speed or driving into a bus stop
6) If another road is not an accident blackspot, then it is by definition safer to go faster there...
Disregarding any opinions of whether speed limits are too high/low, it seems reasonable to:
1) Have a sign that says "Accident Blindspot" either side of it
2) Put cameras of whatever colour you want, between the Blackspot signs
If it truly is a blackspot, surely this is the key point that should be made clear, rather than just being inferred indirectly by (a) seeing threatening obvious/yellow cameras, or (b) having just been been caught out by a hidden/grey camera - "You have just driven too fast through an unusually dangerous road" Thanks for the warning...
Knowing that you're driving through a blackspot, you drive that much more attentively, which perhaps brings your speed down a little. Flagrant disregard of such obvious, honest blackspot warnings (i.e. massive speeding) could then be rightfully assumed to be a bad thing...
Surely education and prevention is better than punishment...
I'd be happy to be restricted to 20 mph in a crowded city street, and it seems equally reasonable to be allowed to go faster than 60 on a clear, dry, well-lit, well-maintained, wide, safe country road
[Edited by Dodge - 10/30/2002 2:00:58 PM]