Luke

I would put good money on the fact that they get it sorted out MUCH quicker than if this Terrible disaster had happend here in London.
Ok ,the American unions will have a bit of a play. But here...... Jesus ,it take them ages to do anything, Then it has to be done again due to not doing it right the first time .and then going well over budget.Lots of idiots standing around a hole for 3.hours,then going and sitting in cafes for the rest of the day !!

It takes most councils 3. weeks to fix a hole in the Road!!

I wish them luck.

I think those two ""stump" sections that are leaning against each other.like small "Empire States". The ones that are always shown in the media. They should be made safe and left as a memorial. They look so amazing.



[This message has been edited by Luke (edited 16 September 2001).]

carl

I agree. Look how quickly they rebuilt the Bay Bridge in San Francisco after the earthquake (I think the contractors were on a <B>massive</B> bonus for completing early). Look how slowly we rebuilt bits of London after the Bishopsgate bomb (AFAIR it was about three years...)

johnfelstead

I think you will find they will still be dismantling the WTC wreckage 6 months from now. This is unlike any previous event by a HUGE amount. I dont think you apreciate quite how large these buildings were or how many building around the WTC have been devastated.

andym172

Although it sounds a little pessimistic, I agree with John.

The WTC buildings were HUGE.
When I was in New York last year with my family, we visited the WTC. I honestly can't describe just how big they were! I stood at the bottom, looked up to see the top of the building and nearly fell backwards (as stupid as that sounds) but it may give you some inclination as to how big they were.

It took them 8 years to build them, so I'd expect them to take at least 4-6 years to rebuild them (if this is what they choose to do).

I still can't believe what's happened. It seems beyond comprehension that such a thing could (and has) happened!

Andy.

davyboy

I am very interested with tall buildings ever since visiting NYC and Toronto. So a few facts:

Tower One was 1,368 feet (414 meters) tall
Tower Two was 1,362 feet (412 meters) tall
The Tower facades were constructed of aluminum and steel lattice
The Tower floors were prefabricated trussed steel, 33 inches deep
The Towers used tube construction with closely spaced columns and beams on the outer walls.
There were no interior columns in the Tower office spaces
The Towers rested on solid bedrock. The foundations extended more than 70 feet below ground.
Each tower contained 104 passenger elevators
Each tower had 21,800 windows.
About 50,000 people worked in the World Trade Center complex

And one more thing, "The World Trade Center is a living symbol of man's dedication to world peace."--Minoru Yamasaki, chief architect. How sad is that comment!!

[This message has been edited by davyboy (edited 16 September 2001).]

wheelwright

Sorry

[This message has been edited by wheelwright (edited 16 September 2001).]

Billbill

Hope I copied this URL properly.

Luke

Lets not get too technical about things here.

This poste was to try and show that America will get on with the Job. Unlike our Goverment. Wembley Stadium. The Dome. Our roads etc.
But they will do it.

Our lot ........ "Wrong type of tea bags, Sorry cant work."

davyboy

[This message has been edited by davyboy (edited 17 September 2001).]

Neil Smalley

It'll take months just to clear away the rubble. It's taken them nearly a week to clear 10,000 tons of rubble. The estimate there are over 600,000 tons left

And that's before they can even think about rebuilding.

zoog

I hope they do rebuild them: they were an awe-inspiring sight both form the ground and from the top. The whole of Manhattan was a truly breahtaking thing to behold, and now is reduced in impact and indeed beauty without them.
I'll never forget seeing the skline for the first time from an airport taxi at nighttime, it came into view suddenly as we crested a rise, all the lights and buildings, like a fabulous work of art.

They should be of the same height or even taller, and of similar external appearance, although I expect construction tecniques to have moved on. If they are not replaced or are smaller, the psychology will not be right.

merlin

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Billbill:
<B>Hope I copied this URL properly.

davyboy

I know it took a while for them to build them, but in the 1930's it took just over a year to build the Empire State Building?! With no modern technology. So maybe they could do it? This time it could pherhaps look a bit better, WTC was a bit bland before. I just wish I was not having to type this actually...........

johnfelstead

Empire state building is tiny in area compaired to the WTC.

The WTC could house up to 50,000 people at any one time! Just think about that. It was a city within a city, it had its own train station in the basement.

I honestly believe they wont ever build something so large again. Two reasons for this.

Firstly its not very sensible to put all your eggs in one basket. Keeping so many people in the same place is not very smart when it comes to disaster recovery situations, no matter how they happen.

Secondly there is no need these days to have so many people together in one place due to comunications technology improvements. The WTC was designed in the 60's, a very diferent world back then, it was built to concentrate traders together as they needed that to make quick decisions. Email etc has removed that need masively.

davyboy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by johnfelstead:
<B>Empire state building is tiny in area compaired to the WTC.

[/quote]

U sure?? Check details, are we talking height ( I am aware WTC bigger) or cubic inches?? 1930, man!! Anyway Chrysler building is best. The WTC is made of 5 buildings, housing 50,000 people I think. May have got facts wrong so dont flame

davyboy

WTC 417Metres, Empire state 381 Metres

Trout...

Sorry to mix posts.

Back to the original topic - this will take an awfully time - as the whole of downtown Manhattan is a crime scene and a burial ground.

All the debris has to be sifted for evidence.

It is very, very wierd - it has been like living in a real time disaster movie. You recollect the grievous images and recoil at the shock of realising that as each day goes by - it is not a movie, but this actually happened.

Trout

Rikki23

Thank you very much Bill. That is a wonderful and extremely moving site.

Regards
Rikki

robman

If you ever saw the WTC at early sunset it was a beautiful sight. The whole thing, including most of the Manhattan skyline looked like it was made of gold. I've got an amazing picture of it from about 10 years ago that I took from the Ellis Island ferry and it made me weep then - now I'm not sure I could stomach the sight :-(

Shark

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Luke:
<B>Our lot ........ "Wrong type of tea bags, Sorry cant work."[/quote]

Your comments upset me somewhat Luke. Our nation would respond as quickly and decisively as the Americans have done, I feel sure. I'm also sure the Americans suffer the same lack of public services we do from time to time in certain areas.

As for your original comments - <B>I think those two ""stump" sections that are leaning against each other.like small "Empire States". The ones that are always shown in the media. They should be made safe and left as a memorial. They look so amazing.</B>

I fail to see anything amazing about the site where thousands of people lost their lives at the hands of a few cowardly terrorists.

I’m not making a personal attack on you Luke, I just feel your comments should be put in perspective.

David

Trout...

Sorry to be maudlin.

Just watched the Channel 4 special - continuing the outstanding broadcasting this week - added a great deal of human perspective. Also included the first real footage from 'ground zero'.

They have moved 10,000 tonnes already - however there is an estimated 600,000 tonnes of debris to be looked at.

What a sad, sad week.

Trout

Luke

Shark

Have you ever visited the holacaust Museum in Jerusalem ? There you will find a pile of childrens shoes. real shoes from real children. A terrible site. yet one that has a beauty. Those two remains.( Todays "Times" has a large photo") are incredible. What is wrong with a memorial. And why should an artist create it?? This is "real" No artist could create such a powerfull site.

I was not saying our Emergency services could not do the job. just that America will do a better job after.

sasman

If they are built again, they will be at least 2 meters taller, the height of the missile launchers they put on the roof.

spurner

I reckon they'll either create a memorial park of some description and/or build some huge massive *uck-off tower to proclaim that Americans are the legends, and nobody can touch it.

wacko

Last i heard the towers were to be rebuilt. They were purchased from the NY Port Authority by a business man, who's name escapes me for the moment his aim being to lease the floors at an increasedd rate to make his money. The deal was signed and sealed 1 or 2 days before the attack, and he was unavailable for comment. It now transpires that he intends to rebuild the towers, no doubt with some memorial.

Trout...

Financing will be an issue - only one of the towers was insured - and the other tower most likely had a no-terrorism clause partly as a follow-on from the original bomb in 1993 and partly as they were a known key target for terrorists.

They had full pictures of the devastation on TV last night and in the papers this morning. There are a great deal of buildings that have taken collatoral damage.

They also report that sniffer dogs cannot be used now due to the overpowering stench.

You have to applaud these guys who are working on the recovery operation.

Trout

Fullonloon

Personally, I would oppose the site being rebuilt on. It's a grave of massive proportions. It would be a fitting tribute to make in to a memorial garden with perhaps a statue (maybe of the 3 firemen erecting the flag?)

It would also show the world that, with it even being the most expensive land in the world, it's not all about money.

carl

I would imagine both towers had a no-terrorism clause. Even if the same people as tried in 1993 tried to blow them up, they would be no more likely to choose one than the other.