ex-webby

Hi All

I had to delete the last thread about this, so please keep this informative / mature and non-offensive.

There are arguments either way for this, so it would be great if we could discuss them without resorting to name calling, etc.

All the best

Simon

CraigH

I didn't see the post yesterday - I assume it's about the £3k price cut/incentive to buy a bugeye?

Firstly it's good for new car buyers obviously - assuming they think that £3k is worth it to buy an obsolete product.

Secondly, theres the issue of recent purchases at full price - now if IM can afford to reduce the price by £3k on the car itself, then I think they should offer something to previous owners (within a timescale) to alleviate the £3k to has potentially been wiped off the cars value. Obviously high value items would be best - Prodrive wheels, PPP etc to at least try and bring the value of the car back to where it was before the cuts were announced. What the timescale of ownership should qualify is quite tricky - 3 months perhaps?

It doesn't seem fair/ethical to just make a move and wipe that amount of money off a cars value without some sort of reimburesement.

And what's the situation with Subaru financed PCPs? Surely this special offer price will have a lower baloon payment/GFV than one bought at full prive last month - so what happens then? The new price cars surely can't have the same end value?

Stephen Read

I assume that the MY03 prices have not been announced yet?

What if the MY03's are cheaper than the MY02's.

Long term /structural price reductions can be a good thing. Your MY02 may have taken a hit but if you are able to buy your next car, which IM will hope will be an MY03, for less than what you paid for your current one, then you haven't really lost out as the 'cost to change' might be less than it appears today.

This looks a little more like a end-of-line clearance sale rather than a structural price change, but I don't know.

NotoriousREV

Presumably, those people that bought a MY02 within the last 3 months knew full well that the MY03 was going to be a facelifted model and that therefore the residuals would suffer?

Certainly any members of Scoobynet should have known this as it's been discussed endlessly for at least 3 months.

It's common sense, if you're going to throw down £20k+ on an item, you check out all the angles.

If you were so worried about losing money on your purchase, you'd have bought a used premium vehicle at 12 or 24 months old. Cars are not investments, they are disposable.

Would you ask Dell for compensation because your PIII 1600 is now obsolete?

Steve Perriam

I would be very surprised to see IM offering anyone who has bought a new WRX recently any incentive !

They are merely now deciding to do a special promotion on the soon to be replaced model.

This does not mean that they should consider offering incentives to other recent customers. How much ? What sort of timescale on recent purchases should they offer ?

I agree that if you have recently bought one for the full price you will obviously feel less than happy with IM !! However it was your choice to buy the Subaru at the price stated and its IM's right to adjust the price if they wish. (as can any other company, car manufacturer or other....ie PS2 price reductions ? X-Box price reductions ?)

The same thing happened to me...i bought a new MY00 in May 2000. A few months later the dealer close to me was advertising brand new 'end of model' old shape turbos for £18,995 !

I did not let this fact bother me to much....I bought my car when i wanted to for the price I negotiated.

More interesting will be the prices of the new 03 model when its released in Feb. I read something in Autocar which i received yesterday saying that its possible that the new model will be cheaper than the current outgoing one ?

I think the comment from a dealer was that they would be surprised if it costs more than 20k ? due to the competition from the various hot hatches of the moment.....Type R / Focus RS / Cupra R etc etc

Not sure about PCP's as i dont know anything about them but an interesting point.

At the end of the day we all keep saying we want cheaper cars in the UK and we're fed up paying over the odds compared to Europe ? So this could be good in the long run but i accept not good for those who have purchased a new WRX recently.


Steve

ProperCharlie

Didn't several car manufacturers cut their UK prices a coupe of years ago? Big hoo ha ensued, people banged on about the market being flooded with unsellable second hand cars... six months later everything went back to normal and people go on with thier lives. Ok, I won't be over the moon if IM announce that the MY03 STi is going to sell at 23k, but OTOH I won't be that bothered about it as the car will be worth f*** all by the time I've finished with it anyway.

Charlie.

[Edited by ProperCharlie - 10/16/2002 10:36:21 AM]

Scooby Dooby Blue

I seriously doubt ANYONE has had to pay over £20K for a new WRX in the last 6months. Only a fool walks into a showroom and pays the windscreen price (with a few exceptions).
If I could manage £2000 off a new UK300 with exhaust, tints and plate transfer thrown in, I should imagine a competent shopper could have managed £3000 off a WRX 3months ago no problem.

Paul (happy with his WRX)

Mike Stokes

SDB, you'd be surprised at what people have paid for their cars. A work colleague bought new WRX only 2 months ago, paying nearly 23k for it with a couple of options. He's *seriously seriously* pissed off now at the price change, effectively wiping 5-6k off the value of his car. It'll be interesting to see what happens as he's got it on a PCP, which undoubtedly wont have taken into consideration this price change.

I for one am hanging back on buying new in case the price of the MY03 is under 20k. It damn well should be anyway.

Barnaby

I've had an Audi A4 depreciate more than 7k in a year in the past. The only way I can see to avoid this kind of hit is to buy second hand.

The other way of looking at it is to think that if new car prices go down you loose your resale value, but you pay less when you want to buy another new car. It's a small comfort I know, but it's something!

ProperCharlie

It seems that some people aren't familiar with the concept of *the market*. Just cos something costs x at one time, doesn't mean it's going to be worth y at a later time. Prices of goods have been coming down for ages, why is this such a surprise?

Dracoro

This is all luck of the draw. If you were looking to buy a scoob, new or used then you'd be very happy. ALL manufacturers do this (lowering prices etc. to drive up sales), they are after all BUSINESSES that have to make money.
The only time that I'd say there's any call for 'sweetners' for current owners is if they have been deliberately, in writing, misleading someone about to buy one. i.e. something legally binding. The only people who would qualify for this would be someone who has very recently bought the car.

Baby Blue

I spoke to my dealer this morning - was told that the current price reductions are purely to clear out the current stock of 02's. Come Xmas, the prices will be back up to list again.

Looked into p/ex'ing my 01 against a new car but been told that it would not be financially viable for me at the moment but come back in 12 months, when the 03 is available and 2nd hand prices should have recovered a bit.

When I bought my car in March this year, from UK main dealer (on a PCP), I paid approx. £19,300 and at the time I considered that I had a reasonable deal (£21,745 list). It is only with these current price reductions that I have started to think that maybe I didn't but it is too late to worry about it now!

It would be nice to think that IM will give me some money back but I can't see that ever happening ..... can you?

BB

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Craig has a good point about offering those within a time scale some sort of reconsense but you also have to look back to when the Bugeye was released and IM did EXACTLY the same thing to the classic MY00's that they had in stock (selling them 2-3k under book price to clear them).
I was seeing brand new MY00 cars at 18k but all manufacturers want to clear old stock, its natural to have a "Sale" as the chances of clearing older cars to a newer model becomes harder.

Tony

Medway1

I bought a MY02 WRX about 6 weeks ago, the dealer, Lancasters of Sevenoaks was very honest about the MY03's immenent arrival and i paid the exact same price as they are now being offered, i also intend to change the car for an STI MY03 in the next 6 months and have been promised a good deal.

At the same time as buying the car i ordered the ppp and was given this at the trade price of approx £1050, i know ive lost money still but if the dealers want repeat business they know they are going to have to do good deals also on MY03 when they arrive, as we all know alot of there business is repeat business and if they "Rip Off" there loyal customers they will struggle,

Pete Croney

I have heard from several sources that the MY03 will be at a similar price to the latest 02 price.

Subaru have had no choice in the face of the flood of cars coming in from Europe and the likes of Car Point selling at £18k.

If the 03 is at the lower price, its shrewd marketing. The hit on residual won't matter if you stay loyal to the brand but if you leave the brand, you'll need to find around £3000 more, towards your next car.

The new price will have potential Focus RS customers re doing their sums.

navigator

i think IM is under pressure for price. the sti 03 may be able to command a premium,but not the wrx.
The motoring press like the seat and the focus rs both are cheaper than scoobs.Also IM must be being hit by all those european imports.e.g. I got mine from belgium and saved 5k. why buy from your local dealer??
This to me puts downward pressure on their prices.So they may try to keep prices high but will discount behind the scenes i'm sure.
I also detect a change in press attitude on subaru's.They are now seen as the 90's icon. Ford and others are making up ground fast.The lack of world rally success will also impact.So thats an image issue for IM that will impact on sales.
any way thats my thoughts.

Pete Croney

Craig's point about residuals on contract/lease cars is interesting. Expect to see quite a few 99/00 cars being given back at the end of the period.

TurboBoost

I'd be pissed off with myself more than anything, you'd have to have been living in a cave for the last few months not to have known a face change was on the cards, and the inevitable tumble in prices. As someone said the constant stream of cheap euro imports will have more impact than this temporary reduction from Subaru UK.
You can't really blame Subaru for lowering the price to clear their showrooms, its no different to what any other manufacturer does. Given the competition I can't see the 2003 being much more than £19,995 (certainly £20,995) otherwise Subaru's giant killing bang for buck ethos is dead and buried. If it isn't already.
If they actually increase the price then it will make the Golf R32 seem cheap, not to mention the Focus RS, Leon Cupra R, Civic Type R etc. being even better bargains for anyone who doesn't need a 4 door saloon.

[Edited by TurboBoost - 10/16/2002 12:41:01 PM]

Ru$$Rip

I bought my WRX 2 months ago at full List price! I got a good financial deal and trade-in on my car so could not haggle any more out of the deal. I asked the dealership outright about the MY03 and they said any changes would be minimal in the same vein as the change from MY01 to MY02. I had been using scoobynet and every thread referring to the MY03 was based on pure speculation - at that point no mention was made of the radical restyling that it actually got.

I feel betrayed by my dealership and IM.I realise that dealers are the last to know but IM should make an effort to compensate MY02 owners in some way even if its simply recirculating their own after-market accessories in some guise.

There are enough of us here to make some kind of official noise - Mods what can be done here? Something from members on scoobynet would carry more clout than individual letters. I feel that even if nothing gets done then at least we tried......

Ru$$Rip

Mods - please can you provide the address of IM UK so that action can be initiated

Thank you

mutant_matt

I disagree. We all knew because of the board and because of the press e.g. Autocar.

I would say that a large proportion of the car buying public is unaware of these and just goes into a dealer and buys a car, and perhaps gets a test drive first. For a lot of these people, the new shape will probably be news to them.

Matt

CraigH

Why not just go to Subaru.co.uk and get it??

If you feel like this would it not be worth getting the "Pro" subaru magazines like EVO involved?

After the "rumours" of certain tactics at SIDC Nat Day and now this I would think they'd be at least some journalisitic interest -even if they get an official statement from IM as to what will be the long term effects on residuals in PCPs etc.......

ScoobyK

In 2000, I sold my 911 losing £6,000.
I replaced it with a Disco, which I had to sell a few months down the line losing £5,000.

I then bought my first scoob, and sold 3 months down the line losing around £3,000.

Speaking as someone who lost £14,000 in the space of a few months, "losing" £3,000 on a WRX would be a pleasure - remember, you only "lose" when you sell, so just enjoy what you have and learn the lesson that you'll never win on a new car.

I got burnt, very burnt, and that's why I bought a year old scoob this time (but then threw 000's at it which I won't get back !!)

carl

TBH I don't see the problem. You were prepared to pay the full price at the time, which means you must perceive it to be worth that to you. All this crap over redisuals is just that -- crap. Who walks in to an agreement to buy a car knowing what the residuals will be in 12-60 months time when it comes to sell it? I'm buying a house at the moment -- it's about £250k. It's possible that house prices may come crashing down in a few months and it'll be worth £220k. So what though? £250k is the going rate at the time I want the house so that's what I have to pay. If it goes down it's my bad luck -- but I don't really care as I was prepared to pay £250k for it anyway.

If SUK had announced a price increase (like TVR did a couple of years ago when everyone else was announcing reductions), I doubt everyone would be offering them the extra money and complaining about the extra value on their cars come resale time.

ex-webby

Ru$$Rip

We have no ties / connection with IM, so don't have their contact details.. although as suggested, they are available to you the same as anyone else.

If you feel strongly about it (which you clearly do) and feel that others will feel the same, I'm sure IM would be very interested to hear of it. We are all their customers / potential customers after all.

As ScoobyNet we would not be able to do anything on the strength of one individual's point of view though as this is a community rather than a soap box... but..

why don't you post a thread (trust me when I say, you need to conduct this in the most professional manner possible or it will be ignored) asking for people to post if they think we should *as a group* approach IM to discuss what can be done (if anything) to compensate people such as yourself.

If there are enough people that want this, then ScoobyNet will support you all the way. ScoobyNet is nothing without it's members, and this is the same with things like this.

If I personally wanted subaru's to be offered as standard in pink with blue spots, saying to IM "Hi.. I'm from scoobynet.. can you make this colour please?" would be pointless...

But if 10,000 people on here all wanted pink with blue spots to be in the range, I could contact IM and say "Hi.. there are 10,000 buyers who want this colour.. would you be interested in doing it?". Suddenly it's worth their while.

This is the way things work, so the first step is to see if there really are enough people that feel this way.

All the best

Simon

SUNDAY DRIVER

Looks like we'll be seeing the first £10k rhd bugeyes around in the next few months then..

Ru$$Rip

Thanks mod - I will do just that. Its OK to just dismiss it as 'thats life' but the less people do about this the more companies get away with it.

I refer back to Microsoft when they cut the cost of the X-Box - at least they recognised that there would be issues and compensated those with vouchers etc.

[Edited by Ru$$Rip - 10/16/2002 1:47:38 PM]

carl

On the contrary. If I was fantastically rich I wouldn't have a three year old 'classic' (which I imported to save some money) with 80k on the clock. Unfortunately, although it is true I am house buying, some of the money has come from the sale of my old house and the rest (a large proportion) is coming from a mortgage company. I could bitch about how expensive it is to live in my town, but if I want to do so I have to pay the going rate.

I'm thinking of selling the Scoob soon -- a flood of cheap bugeyes will affect my residuals. But I've always walked into buying cars by assuming they're going to be worth nothing when I've finished with them -- that way whatever I get is a bonus.

Just because I don't feel as strongly about it as you, it doesn't mean I'm wrong [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Ru$$Rip

Sorry carl! I retracted my initial statement as soon as I had sent it. But like I said it would be nice if we get some kind of positive result out of this.

carl

...and good luck to you, but I reckon you're on a sticky wicket