Mossman

Increased boost. Fine as long as you alter the timing, advance, fuelling etc Otherwise it can be VERY risky. As far as i am concerned, LINK, PPP, Motec etc is the way to go.

Get out clause - I am not very technical!

Cheers,

Mossman

Adam M

Listen to craig he is right on this one.

You need to monitor fuelling and det all the time to be safe with such things. You also need to know what the lambda is telling you.

Superchips are without doubt equivalent to bleed vlaves in the job they do, so dont waste your money if you are going to do it at all.

If running a bleed valve some say you can get away with it if you dont run too much boost, as the standard ecu might run rich enough to cope with the extra air. But most people just want as much power as possible for not a little money. They end up upping boost and blowing up.

Just because a few mates have succeeded in not destroying their engines doesnt make them fine. There is a very prominent person on the board who lost an engine to superchips, but his identity must remain anonymous due to warranty issues.

If you want to go for something like this then feel free, but with so many people saying stay away, does it not put doubt in your mind?

The more experienced tuners would not even consider upping boost without properly sorting out fuelling. You can get away with it (apparently) on a cosworth but you simply cannot on a scoob, they are far more prone to det.

Ahmed bayjoo tried to reate a unifrom chip, and decided it wasnt worth it for this reason. You cannot make a generic performance enhancing chip for a scoob. The only thing is a modded ecu done properly with a proper map such as a ppp, link, motec etc.

There is much diversity in standard fuelling, just see the rolling road readouts for proof. A very rich car might be fine, but you get a car with better volumetric efficiency on a standard ecu, and upping the boost can leave it seriously lean. lean = increased likelihood of det which equals holes in pistons, plus high egt = fried turbos.

Dont take my word for it. Ring scoobysport and ask how many engines they have had in with holes in them due to superchips. Or ring brd and ask bob rawle why he uses links and motecs and not superchips, since he would sell far more.

the answer is, they arent safe.

If you go ahead anyway, I hope you enjoy it, but dont say you havent been warned if things go wrong.

POC

The chip also alters the fueling, how could the car run 'lean' and det wrong if the fueling is compensated accordingly?

Anyone in here actualy got one of these little jobbies in their car? Care to comment?

Cheers

Paul

POC

Yes, I do have alot of doubt in my mind.

Very good reasons have been given, I am now concerned that it is maybe not the way forward.....

Just a thought!

If anyone does want one, get in touch and I will sort you out with the supplier.

Cheers

Paul

Adam M

Paul,

I dont want to be a stick in the mud, it would just upset me to see another enthusiast lose an engine when I could have done something about it.

Superchips have released a new item for the impreza to my knowledge, but even so, fuelling compensation has to be done right. And unless the mappe knows his scoobs, I think you will find the fuelling will be wrong.

there have been other companies who have had severe problems due to dodgy fuelling, and these were people who "knew" about mapping, and "knew" their scoobs. The fact is there is still no generic fix for increasing boost which is cheap and safe.

Please dont take this as me shouting out from my high horse, if I have come across that way then I am sorry. I really dont want to see anymore engines blow.

I did mean what I said, though, when you are next at a meet, ask pete croney about his engine collection. When I got my first impreza, it was the first thing I was told. Infact I became familiar with the flat four by looking at all the blown ones scoobysport have collected.

RobWhite

I thought that Superchips had the right to have there say, so I have invited them to join our thread and post there answers to the questions.

I wonder if the will?

Rob

POC

I have just spoken to my local superchip dealer, he is willing to give a LARGE discount on chipping a group of scoobys.

Who would be interested?

Normal price is about £480 inc VAT and fitting, Superchips website quotes around a 40bhp increase. If I can get enough people interested, I am sure I can get the price down to about £350, maybe less.....?

I am located in Herts.

Mail me if this appeals

Paul

Adam M

Can you get it down to £50 which is what it would cost for a bleed valve fitted which does exactly the same thing and is equally as risky?

lordlucan

Maybe you can also get a group discount for engine rebuilds at the same time !!!!

Dont waste ya money, go for the PPP or the Link..

POC

Really?

But is this just urban legend? Could I have some comments from people with 'chipped cars'?

Cheers guys......

POC

shunty

POC - getting mine chipped today/tomorrow, with a few other bits n bobs. been informed that chip is ok as long as not doing le-mans 24 hour race......I will be posting next week with my comments.

fyi: current mods on my uk model: magnex front to back(hang on I'll go turn the car off cause I can't hear myself typing), big brakes, eibachs, prodrive interior, 17" suppaleggeras(or sumat like that), uprated clutch......christ it's nearly as good as an import STI now

Adam M/L Lucan - chip=£400 dvalve=£50.....argh sh*t..I could have had another 3 days petrol money with the saving
imho - seriously though.....I thought that just for increasing the boost "now & then" the chips are ok??

edited cause I'm off work today & am v-bored
shunty


[This message has been edited by shunty (edited 05 September 2001).]

POC

I have just gotten off the phone to a pal with a chipped scooby, a couple of his mates too have chipps in their scoobs.

The general opinion seems to be that they are a good thing, increased throttle response, smoother rev range, more boost, more tourqe, more power etc...

None of them have had any problems so far, and all are v impressed.

Cheers

Paul

ScoobySnack

Anyone fancy explaining, why they think Superchip is a bad thing......

I've read through a few threads and their seems to be different answers?

J

CraigH

Isn't it something to do with the fact it fools the ECU into thinking it's running less boost than it is - so it boosts more but fuelling, ignition etc remain the same?

Hence det, running lean etc - both not a good thing.

Or am I wrong?

RobWhite

I read in the latest CCC that the Well Lane Turbo Car was chipped and the magazine wrote that these are good up to about 260-270 bhp, anthiny after that and they tend to go pear shaped.

I spoke to a mechanic who independantly fits them and he said that as long as you dont fiddle to much with everything else then they are fine.

Rob

orbv

"Never go for the cheap option, you will
pay more in the end." :-)

bob

Do Superchip's do a chip for the P1 this could be a cheap option for me.

shunty

Thanks very much for the comments regarding the chips etc.

I will be interested to see if superchips comment on this one...

& btw, I thought the guy who lost an engine to a chip, done track days regular etc ?? hence my earlier comment about "le mans"

Exactly how many people on this board
1: have a chip fitted?
2: have had any issues?
3: ones with issues do they do regular track days etc?

I appreciate that a lot of you are VERY technical & would only recommend link/motech ecu etc, I can understand that.


shunty

Sam Elassar

hi there

as adam said subarus vary a lot from one car to another so superchip is not really ideal at all. the superchip may be ok for other cars as they tend to alter the whole map ie fueling, ignition and boost. unfortunately the subaru ECU can't not be accessed that easily by a simple piggyback chip after MY98. so what superchip does it raises the boost usually to a safe limit, which is different from one car to another. the subaru engine is not a fragile as you may believe though if it is done properly. the subaru engine seem to run a lot of timing as standard so it is prone to knock if things are not done correctly .
i think it may have to do something with the engine lay out or something but i am running a hell of a lot more advance on my UK car than my friends EVO VI ?

the subaru ecu can compensate for, 17psi boost i think anymore and it could be dodgy

i know of at least one car up here that has blown up and it was running superchip. i am not sure if it also had one of these HKS afr
to add some more fueling or not.
make up your own mind though.

Steve Breen

With respect to the quote in CCC in this months test of a Superchipped MY01, the quote came from the dealer supplying the Superchip, not CCC themselves.

Steve

TopCat

Poc,

Adam M and the guys are right!

The superchip product= bleed valve(which you could have free from me, you can only push up to aprox 18 psi without the boost cut kicking in (over boost issue)so you get a unit which is sit's by your ECU, called the chip, this is really a device to fool the ecu in seeing 18psi so the over boost cut of does not kick in, with the bleed valve you can increase above 18psi. The question is how much, because the product does not fuel or adjust the timing of the car. Also not worth the money considering the flex you have with a Link, EVC etc

I got my s/chip fitted by a scoob dealer up north, paid 450, the car went like stick and tailed of at around 5k rpm, did not know why, did not have a boost gauge, did not know of BBS either.

The only way I found out was when I went to Power Engineering to get a gauge fitted and put it on the rollers, the car was detting it's **** off (25psi!!!) hence the reason why it was tailing of at 5k rpm (the ecu retarding the ignition, just lucky it was enough)

No damage thank ****! the scoob dealer took the psi reading from the ecu not the inlet manifold, of course the ecu is spoofed from telling the true reading.

Another thing when the climate changes accure winter, summer, early mornings your boost will increase for cold weather and decrease for hot weather so you have to adjust the bleed valve.

To much head **** and not worth the money.

I am having a Link fitted in 2 weeks you can have my set up for free I paid 450 8 months ago.

The only way I was able to run it safely at 20 psi was to check it on the rollers for det have all almost all the gauges Defi do and a knock link and lambda link to check the fueling, but still had to get out of the car due to climate changes...HEAD ****!!!
I had a MY97 UK car that produced 275bhp and 280 lbs of T, good the the UK ones fuel better, well most of them, if I had an import I dont think I would still have a scoob!

Pay a bit more for the real thing it's worth it especially if your going to do other mods later, enough is never enough not for me anyway, bigger turbo, injectors etc the S/chip does not have the flex like the Link does.

I think you have the point.


Moe

lordharding

iTrader: (1)

i have a my2000 rom new and have just had a PI exhaust fitted by my local dealer up north and he is advertising an engine management re map for £450 he says it is done by an ex prodrive lad is this a chip the dealer says they have done many over the years so they must be confident in the product with no worries on warrenty or part exchanges etc do i avoid it like the plague?and save my dosh and engine advice urgent!!

scoobycar60

Lot to be said for PPP... expensive yes but if you have any warranty left could end up being a very cheap option! ,after all Prodrive do know a little about tuning the subaru engine without it going bang too often... Mid range torque and improved responsiveness across the range is what you should be looking for, ppp will give you this. Seriously if you go for the "Big Bhp" be aware that for what ever reason you choose to believe, our engines have a tendancy to knock out their big ends which is expensive to repair. I had this happen to me. I am not blaming any company in particular here etc.just stating a fact.
Oh and by the way!
If you need the name of an experienced Subaru engine builder I may be able to help............!

Shaun

POC,

If you want to look at group buy chipping, then look at the UNICHIP. This is a fully programmable chip, unlike the superchip. It is roughly the same price and the results (providing the mapper knows what he is doing) are as good as the more expensive LINK ECU. Many people on this board have used this form of chipping, with NO problems.

Give Rich/Dirk a ring at Powerstation, and tell em I sent you.

Regards,
Shaun.

TopCat

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by lordharding:
<B>i have a my2000 rom new and have just had a PI exhaust fitted by my local dealer up north and he is advertising an engine management re map for £450 he says it is done by an ex prodrive lad is this a chip the dealer says they have done many over the years so they must be confident in the product with no worries on warrenty or part exchanges etc do i avoid it like the plague?and save my dosh and engine advice urgent!![/quote]

LOL!!!! that is the same story I got also, read my post, the dealer is STAN PALMER!!!!
Am I right...shet I know I am rigth!!!

Moe

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

There are alot of horror stories about superchips and scoobs, for me i would go for the PPP (got it and its as safe as houses ) or the link (motec is great but expensive) its up to you if you want a new engine or not as the pre 98's are not as resilliant as the post ones but they dont like being run rich or overboosted, not good and things go pop cost for chip, 350 quid, cost for engine 5k+
work out which is going to be the most expensive if you put it in
Go for a link, much safer and better

Tony

LEE P

Hey Top cat! i read your story and i knew which dealer it was too! they told me about your experience at P.E and said it was crap, needless to say they were trying to flog me it too! very wary me! read to much about it to go for it, this prodrive geezer sounds abit ropey to me? he goes round in a beat up nova van with dutch plates! doesent inspire confidence. tell me what happened? lordharding did you go for he P1 exhaust from them? ii decided against it and got a magnex and saved 150 quid, loud enough for me! build quility looks better too! Cheers Lee

Trout...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Steve Breen:
<B>With respect to the quote in CCC in this months test of a Superchipped MY01, the quote came from the dealer supplying the Superchip, not CCC themselves.

Steve[/quote]

Not a comment to Steve - however when looking at tuning a Scoob be aware that that engine management protocol for a WRX01 is entirely different to the cars up and including MY00.

In in simple terms WRX01 cars have real time ignition mapping - earlier cars had adaptive mapping which would change to the environmental conditions over time.

Does this make the WRX01 more capable of exploiting a Superchip - possibly - but equally possibly not.

Certainly does not apply to MY00 and earlier.

And if you have to pay extra for a fuel compensation chip why not just by a proper upgrade?

Finally - the 'Le Mans' comment. So you tune your car - really enjoy and think - mmmm - just one track day should be fine - BANG

Trout

shunty

Trout - in that reply I did also mention
1 how many people have the chip?
2 how many have had the problem?
3 how many of these do track days?

very important questions when you are analysing something like this, in other words how many peolpe on the board have one, how many have had problems, how many do track days. I appreciate that obviously not everyone will read this thread who possibly may have a chip.
I would like to hear from people who have the chip fitted personally.
Topcats reply indicated that the chip was fitted incorrectly anyway......"No damage thank ****! the scoob dealer took the psi reading from the ecu not the inlet manifold, of course the ecu is spoofed from telling the true reading."
As far as I can see by the replies only Sam E knows of a blown engine due to a chip.

Question - Godneys brake conversion, vastly cheaper than AP/Brembo setup, but because they are new who nows what they will perform/last like (although sounds pretty good judging by the comments on other threads).
Answer - i year down the road a guy comes on the board & asks "would you recomend Godneys brake conversion?" how would you answer this, surely by asking the people who have the merchandise fitted to their motors.
I would appreciate your input on this one.

shunty

[This message has been edited by shunty (edited 06 September 2001).]

Adam M

Shunty, did you not read my original bit saying I knew of a "known" owner on this bbs who should remain nameless for warranty reasons?

Plus without knowing the names of the onwers, in the scoobysport collection of failed engines, a hefty percentage are due to chipping.

I should point out if not clear, that scoobysport were merely asked to repair the engines, and were in no way instrumental to their failing in the first place. These engines were a stern warning to me to avoid chipping a subaru.