STI UK Understeer?????
11 October 2002, 06:54 PM
#2
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NO!
Put your foot down, and let the front Suretrac diff do its work (but don't blame me if you make an STi shaped hole in a hedge somewhere)
Slower in, feed power in, fast out works.....
Put your foot down, and let the front Suretrac diff do its work (but don't blame me if you make an STi shaped hole in a hedge somewhere)
Slower in, feed power in, fast out works.....
11 October 2002, 06:57 PM
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It does have a lot to do with driving style. I can still remember my first time on track where I almost understeered off every corner Then I twigged the fact if you keep your foot planted it is much more neutral.
Of course it could also be something is up with the setup?
Then I twigged the fact if you keep your foot planted it is much more neutral.Of course it could also be something is up with the setup?
11 October 2002, 06:57 PM
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Not mine, power oversteer is there for the asking in the wet.
With the LSD front and rear I find it does not understeer, get your geometry checked and set to the prodrive settings as found
http://www.sidc.co.uk/faq.htm#4.5
Have a look at http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...ThreadID=87335
With the LSD front and rear I find it does not understeer, get your geometry checked and set to the prodrive settings as found
http://www.sidc.co.uk/faq.htm#4.5
Have a look at http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...ThreadID=87335
11 October 2002, 07:03 PM
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12 October 2002, 08:47 AM
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Let me elaborate a bit more guys...
My brother has a wrx (ppp)
We can both hoore it round wet corners in the wrx.
No amount of tinkering with driving style is going to stop my STI from understeer. Tried all scenarios of giving more power etc. but all to no avail.
I have not had a chance to get a big open space e.g. a track to experiment on though. If it is true that you have to have a bit of courage and ease in the throttle more, then what is the point of that????
Suretrac my ***!!!
Pishtrac more like.
Bob.
My brother has a wrx (ppp)
We can both hoore it round wet corners in the wrx.
No amount of tinkering with driving style is going to stop my STI from understeer. Tried all scenarios of giving more power etc. but all to no avail.
I have not had a chance to get a big open space e.g. a track to experiment on though. If it is true that you have to have a bit of courage and ease in the throttle more, then what is the point of that????
Suretrac my ***!!!
Pishtrac more like.
Bob.
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12 October 2002, 12:22 PM
#9
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Bob
What tyres are you (and your brother) on?
The standard RE040's are actually quite good for what they are, but there are much better things around (S03, Toyo, GY F1).
Just been for a 80 mile cross country trip on crappy roads in the pouring rain, on OEM RE040's
, and whilst if you bury the car deep into a corner on the brakes you *will* lose the front end, otherwise on slow in, fast out it will make very quick progress
What tyres are you (and your brother) on?
The standard RE040's are actually quite good for what they are, but there are much better things around (S03, Toyo, GY F1).
Just been for a 80 mile cross country trip on crappy roads in the pouring rain, on OEM RE040's
, and whilst if you bury the car deep into a corner on the brakes you *will* lose the front end, otherwise on slow in, fast out it will make very quick progress
13 October 2002, 12:28 AM
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I have the same problem with a GDA (Non sti new age) here in the States. It nearly got me killed! I know that I do not have the "sure track" lsd in the front, but rather an open diff, but damn, that scared the crap out of me. I was gettin on Interstate 5 (I5) in the rain last winter, and on the onramp, I got a horrible understeer, under acceleration, that threw me out into the 4 lane megafreeway. Luckinly, there was nobody there. I would liked to have **** my britches! A company here in the states named kartboy ( www.kartboy.com) sells some bad *** droplinks for the rear swaybars that are supposed to drastically improve understeer conditions.
Just for the record, I have TEIN RA coil overs with a 23MM Cusco swaybar in the rear, and a 21MM Cusco swaybar in the front, on 225 45 R17 tires (I know the spelling is strange for you Brits! lol)
All should change very soon, as I have a 6MT with a suretrack on the way from Boston. That puppy costed me $4,000 USD! I can't wait.
Carry on my UK allies!!!
Drew
Just for the record, I have TEIN RA coil overs with a 23MM Cusco swaybar in the rear, and a 21MM Cusco swaybar in the front, on 225 45 R17 tires (I know the spelling is strange for you Brits! lol)
All should change very soon, as I have a 6MT with a suretrack on the way from Boston. That puppy costed me $4,000 USD! I can't wait.
Carry on my UK allies!!!
Drew
13 October 2002, 09:44 AM
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Sounds like a UK Impreza then..... 
My advice (and im no expert) is to play a bit - try and find the point where you know its going to understeer.. and try to avoid that point at all times.
My car still understeers despite geometry and tyre changes...... but i know what will provoke it so i try and be a lot smoother with braking and acceleration linked to direction and that seems to stop it happening.
Can't say that Dave's comment is a good idea - unless you are in a large open space to test!!!!! Barriers hurt!!!!
Go and see Don Palmer!!
Jza
My advice (and im no expert) is to play a bit - try and find the point where you know its going to understeer.. and try to avoid that point at all times.
My car still understeers despite geometry and tyre changes...... but i know what will provoke it so i try and be a lot smoother with braking and acceleration linked to direction and that seems to stop it happening.
Can't say that Dave's comment is a good idea - unless you are in a large open space to test!!!!! Barriers hurt!!!!
Go and see Don Palmer!!
Jza
13 October 2002, 01:11 PM
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Hmm,
The fact is that my wrx is a lot more satisfying to drive than Bobs sti is. I drove the thing and it handles like crap and we aren't talking about really thrashing it here. If all sti's are like this then I'm laughing my *** off. If its just a matter of setup then it must be off by a mile. If its a matter of driving style then in order to beat any hot hatch round a roundabout you have to thrash it so much as to get some sort of oversteer-power redistribution? bogus!
Poor Bob hope its easily resolved.
The fact is that my wrx is a lot more satisfying to drive than Bobs sti is. I drove the thing and it handles like crap and we aren't talking about really thrashing it here. If all sti's are like this then I'm laughing my *** off. If its just a matter of setup then it must be off by a mile. If its a matter of driving style then in order to beat any hot hatch round a roundabout you have to thrash it so much as to get some sort of oversteer-power redistribution? bogus!
Poor Bob hope its easily resolved.
13 October 2002, 07:10 PM
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I can't really understand this. I find the handling of my STi precise and well balanced. I don't tend to drive around on the verge of sideways the whole time, but I do give it a little where err... conditions allow. A common thing for me is to boot it out of a roundabuot, and I find that as boost kicks in the front will run a little wide, but keep your foot down and you have to start unwinding lock pretty damn quick... 
It works for me, anyway.
Charlie.
It works for me, anyway.
Charlie.
14 October 2002, 11:40 PM
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I've just started new thread before I noticed this. I totally agree with BOBBY G. My STi handles like crap in the wet. Much worse than my MY98. I'm hoping its just the tyres (which I know make a big difference having had the truly awful-in-the-wet PZeros on the MY98 then changed to fabulous F1s) but I feel as if there might be something else wrong.
D.
D.
15 October 2002, 07:18 AM
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I've owned an old shape (turbo in uk?), new WRX, and now an STi7...
The old shape was the most fun to drive from the word go - 4 wheel slides on demand, the moment you exit the showroom.
The WRX was the easiest to drive. But the least fun.
The STi is very very difficult to learn to drive fast...but once you get it right, you are leagues and leagues faster than any of the other...And it is VERY satisfying.
Don't tell me the handling is ****. You just don't know how to drive it.
This thing is a road weapon...it will do whatever you want, whenever you want - you just have to know how to ask nicely.
During my first month of ownership, I almost killed myself, because I had no clue how to corner fast - I spun twice over 3 lanes of traffic, and ended up facing backwards, my wheels inches away from a 3m drop onto the highway below...
Take the car on an advanced driving course first...It requires a paradigm shift going from an old shape, or WRX, to a new STi...
The old shape was the most fun to drive from the word go - 4 wheel slides on demand, the moment you exit the showroom.
The WRX was the easiest to drive. But the least fun.
The STi is very very difficult to learn to drive fast...but once you get it right, you are leagues and leagues faster than any of the other...And it is VERY satisfying.
Don't tell me the handling is ****. You just don't know how to drive it.
This thing is a road weapon...it will do whatever you want, whenever you want - you just have to know how to ask nicely.
During my first month of ownership, I almost killed myself, because I had no clue how to corner fast - I spun twice over 3 lanes of traffic, and ended up facing backwards, my wheels inches away from a 3m drop onto the highway below...
Take the car on an advanced driving course first...It requires a paradigm shift going from an old shape, or WRX, to a new STi...
15 October 2002, 08:49 AM
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This is also being discusssed on this thread but this thread is more advanced.
Like I said to DJB in the other thread:
I'm assuming you're on standard tyres and wheels? I never drove my STi in the wet as about a week into ownership, I put the P-FF7's with Toyo Proxies on it.
In the wet it doesn't understeer unless I go into a corner/roundabout way to fast and I can go in faster than I could in my MY00UK. Mid bend and on the exit it wants to either do a 4 wheel drift sideways or the back starts to push out, but thats only if you let it and/or are in a low gear.
It certainly takes more skill to drive it than my MY00UK but that's why I like it. Involvement is the key to a great drivers car.
I suspect that your problem is mainly down to your tyres.
Having read the rest of this post, Dave (T-S) says that the RE040s are OK in the wet and having been in the car with Dave, around the lanes he lives in/drives in, I know that he is a very competent driver and that he uses every ounce of performance of the car.
From this I can only conclude that either there is something wrong with the car (which is quite likely as the Geometry as it comes from the factory is often way out) or (with respect), you haven't got the hang of driving it yet.
Yes it is harder to drive it fast but when you get the hang of it, it is streets ahead of the WRX. I haven't done enough miles in the wet to get the hang yet and look forward to learning the car properly over this winter (besides, getting to know your car is all part of the fun of the ownership experience).
Think about this, a race car is exceptionally difficult to learn to drive quickly, particularly in the wet, and you need a lot of skill to drive one fast, but this doesn't mean that it's a crap car does it? It just means you have to be a better driver!
I would also recommend a driving course such as Don Palmer's "Wetter the Better" or the 1st Lotus (Andrew Walsh) training day. They are both excellent value for money and will teach you lots. I will be going back to 1st Lotus this winter to find the limits of my STi in perfect safety.
Hope this helps,
Matt
Like I said to DJB in the other thread:
I'm assuming you're on standard tyres and wheels? I never drove my STi in the wet as about a week into ownership, I put the P-FF7's with Toyo Proxies on it.
In the wet it doesn't understeer unless I go into a corner/roundabout way to fast and I can go in faster than I could in my MY00UK. Mid bend and on the exit it wants to either do a 4 wheel drift sideways or the back starts to push out, but thats only if you let it and/or are in a low gear.
It certainly takes more skill to drive it than my MY00UK but that's why I like it. Involvement is the key to a great drivers car.
I suspect that your problem is mainly down to your tyres.
Having read the rest of this post, Dave (T-S) says that the RE040s are OK in the wet and having been in the car with Dave, around the lanes he lives in/drives in, I know that he is a very competent driver and that he uses every ounce of performance of the car.
From this I can only conclude that either there is something wrong with the car (which is quite likely as the Geometry as it comes from the factory is often way out) or (with respect), you haven't got the hang of driving it yet.
Yes it is harder to drive it fast but when you get the hang of it, it is streets ahead of the WRX. I haven't done enough miles in the wet to get the hang yet and look forward to learning the car properly over this winter (besides, getting to know your car is all part of the fun of the ownership experience
).Think about this, a race car is exceptionally difficult to learn to drive quickly, particularly in the wet, and you need a lot of skill to drive one fast, but this doesn't mean that it's a crap car does it? It just means you have to be a better driver!
I would also recommend a driving course such as Don Palmer's "Wetter the Better" or the 1st Lotus (Andrew Walsh) training day. They are both excellent value for money and will teach you lots. I will be going back to 1st Lotus this winter to find the limits of my STi in perfect safety
.Hope this helps,
Matt
15 October 2002, 09:53 AM
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Maybe because my last car was RWD and rather unpredictable, I tend to 'feel my way in' to a car's handling. I remember when I took the STi for a test drive, I was breaking early into corners, getting the car settled and then putting power down at the apex. The salesman commented after a while 'you don't really need to brake so early, just keep your foot on the gas all the way through the corner'. I tried and it worked fine. On my way to work today (torrential rain) I was trying to see if the car would readily break traction. There weren't really many opportunities to try, but the most I could provoke was a little but of front end sliding when hitting uneven surface with full or nearly full throttle, third gear corner. The thing seems solid as a rock to me, and this is with 2/3rds worn RE040s.
I hope I'm not temping fate with these posts - I can imagine how dumb I would feel when my next post is *STi7 nighmare handling - backwards thru' hedge at 70 mph*
Charlie.
I hope I'm not temping fate with these posts - I can imagine how dumb I would feel when my next post is *STi7 nighmare handling - backwards thru' hedge at 70 mph*
Charlie.
15 October 2002, 10:34 AM
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I think its the way your driving it bobby 
It does take some getting use to but you CANNOT drive this car like any other impreza, you will get understeer with it if you do, you have to keep your foot planted and let those suretrac diffs do their job and it will outhandle a wrx with no problems then
The feeling you get with the suretrac diffs is a little unnerving to start with (as i found out on the test drive but adapted to it quickly) and it outhandles my MY00 no problems much quicker and surefooted though corners etc.
If your still unsatisfied then go and get the geometry checked but it sounds like you could be scared of driving the car how it wants you to drive it, quickly
Tony
It does take some getting use to but you CANNOT drive this car like any other impreza, you will get understeer with it if you do, you have to keep your foot planted and let those suretrac diffs do their job and it will outhandle a wrx with no problems then
The feeling you get with the suretrac diffs is a little unnerving to start with (as i found out on the test drive but adapted to it quickly
) and it outhandles my MY00 no problems much quicker and surefooted though corners etc.If your still unsatisfied then go and get the geometry checked but it sounds like you could be scared of driving the car how it wants you to drive it, quickly
Tony
15 October 2002, 12:05 PM
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Choose a point at the apex of the corner, select the gear that you know you can keep in (DO NOT CHANGE GEAR WITH POWER ON THE CORNER!!!) as your eyes past the point push the throttle through and feel the diffs work their magic, you will keep more traction and ultimately always be quicker than the next person.
I personally left foot break with the power firmly planted through the wheels, you've got to be very confident of your foot position however and I really only suggest it after you really know the car, I did it all the time in a carrera 4, and that was a real B**** if you didn't treat her nice!!.
If your really adventurous take the car somewhere wide open and try pushing it gradually harder into a turn, when you get the sound of the revs and the speed in your head, push the car a little more, feel the front move out and then feed more on (make sure its open spaces) the truth is the car actually makes a toe in move, the power moves to the outside pushing you into the corner. You will always be faster than the WRX because of this, lighten the unsprung weight and it'll be even better. Loosing traction may look cool and get the blood pumping, but keep the rubber on the road and you'll power out quicker.
If you get lighter alloys even 19" x 8", and stick F1's on it if you want to be warned well in advance when its going to give up on traction (F1's are really predictable, toyo's a little less)And as in all things then practice practice practice (take up skiing same principle)
Or get a type RA so you can handbrake it
I personally left foot break with the power firmly planted through the wheels, you've got to be very confident of your foot position however and I really only suggest it after you really know the car, I did it all the time in a carrera 4, and that was a real B**** if you didn't treat her nice!!
. If your really adventurous take the car somewhere wide open and try pushing it gradually harder into a turn, when you get the sound of the revs and the speed in your head, push the car a little more, feel the front move out and then feed more on (make sure its open spaces) the truth is the car actually makes a toe in move, the power moves to the outside pushing you into the corner. You will always be faster than the WRX because of this, lighten the unsprung weight and it'll be even better. Loosing traction may look cool and get the blood pumping, but keep the rubber on the road and you'll power out quicker.
If you get lighter alloys even 19" x 8", and stick F1's on it if you want to be warned well in advance when its going to give up on traction (F1's are really predictable, toyo's a little less)And as in all things then practice practice practice
(take up skiing same principle)Or get a type RA so you can handbrake it
15 October 2002, 12:08 PM
#23
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I can't help but feel that the advice to "plant your foot if you get understeer" is really going to catch someone out very badly...
...especially if cornering quickly around a left hand bend.
Slow in, fast out. Get your speed right before you turn in, and you'll find you can get the power down before the apex.
Careful out there
...especially if cornering quickly around a left hand bend.
Slow in, fast out. Get your speed right before you turn in, and you'll find you can get the power down before the apex.
Careful out there
15 October 2002, 12:30 PM
#24
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To be fair he said 'keep your foot planted' and not 'plant your foot'. Big difference between the two.
I do wonder if they should put a big sticker on the sun visor that says "DO NOT LIFT OFF IN A CORNER" on every Scooby
I do wonder if they should put a big sticker on the sun visor that says "DO NOT LIFT OFF IN A CORNER" on every Scooby
15 October 2002, 05:21 PM
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OK most of us are aware of the potentail for lift of f oversteer getting you into trouble but can anyone actually offer an alternative way of slowing down without causing this to happen or minimising it. I know the correct procedure is to get your speed right before going into the turn but this may not always be possible and people do make mistakes so my question is this. is there a way of slowing down mid-corner, if you realise you have gone in too fast, without risking ending up backwards in a hedge?
I realise that you may be able to use opposite lock to get yourself out of a sticky situation but not everyone may be able to do this so if the cure for understeering is to give it some more right foot is there anything you can do to reduce lift off oversteer?
I realise that you may be able to use opposite lock to get yourself out of a sticky situation but not everyone may be able to do this so if the cure for understeering is to give it some more right foot is there anything you can do to reduce lift off oversteer?