STi 7 PPP installed - the verdict
10 October 2002, 02:52 PM
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Well now boys and girls - Just picked up my STi 7 with PPP installed from the good people at KT Greens. I kept my Scoobysport mid-section and back box on since the Prodrive one has a silencer in the mid-section and the Scoobysport is straight through. The bill of materials was listed as:
STi Down Pipe with Cat
STi Centre and Rear exhaust
STi ECU performance pack
Bolts and gaskets as required
To set the scene, I've never had a Subaru before this and once I changed the wheels for the 18" OZ alloys with the Pirelli PZeros (it should have had on it in the first place), I was pretty impressed with the handling and expecially the brakes.
My only real issue with the STi was the Turbo lag. Pulling out of junctions was a complete joke! If I did'nt remember to slip the clutch and get the revs at approx 4,000 rpm it chugged like a go-kart from a standing start.
After picking up the car the first thing was to fill it up from empty on Optimax.
The first and most obvious point is the improved pick up in any gear. Starting off in first is now much more in line with what I would expect and have experienced on other turbo cars. 2nd + 3rd gear feel much more responsive and 4th + 5th gear are full of "kick in the back" grunt whereas before they were much more sedate.
There is also a new "whine", that was'nt there before, coming from the engine bay. Not sure what it is but it sounds cool!
I've only driven the car around for about an hour but I think my first impression will probably be the honest one. I reckon everyone that gets an STi 7 should add the PPP or equivalent. To run an STi 7 in it's stock form to my mind is a waste.
I must admit on the one hand I must say thanks to Prodrive for correcting a major defect in the car. On the other, for Subaru to put out such a "leashed" car, when they know the true potential is in my mind a rip off. There are other cars coming as full UK cars without squeezing the engine in to submission.
I'll give it a good run through tonight (with the help of a few friends) and report back anything else I find.
STi Down Pipe with Cat
STi Centre and Rear exhaust
STi ECU performance pack
Bolts and gaskets as required
To set the scene, I've never had a Subaru before this and once I changed the wheels for the 18" OZ alloys with the Pirelli PZeros (it should have had on it in the first place), I was pretty impressed with the handling and expecially the brakes.
My only real issue with the STi was the Turbo lag. Pulling out of junctions was a complete joke! If I did'nt remember to slip the clutch and get the revs at approx 4,000 rpm it chugged like a go-kart from a standing start.
After picking up the car the first thing was to fill it up from empty on Optimax.
The first and most obvious point is the improved pick up in any gear. Starting off in first is now much more in line with what I would expect and have experienced on other turbo cars. 2nd + 3rd gear feel much more responsive and 4th + 5th gear are full of "kick in the back" grunt whereas before they were much more sedate.
There is also a new "whine", that was'nt there before, coming from the engine bay. Not sure what it is but it sounds cool!
I've only driven the car around for about an hour but I think my first impression will probably be the honest one. I reckon everyone that gets an STi 7 should add the PPP or equivalent. To run an STi 7 in it's stock form to my mind is a waste.
I must admit on the one hand I must say thanks to Prodrive for correcting a major defect in the car. On the other, for Subaru to put out such a "leashed" car, when they know the true potential is in my mind a rip off. There are other cars coming as full UK cars without squeezing the engine in to submission.
I'll give it a good run through tonight (with the help of a few friends) and report back anything else I find.
10 October 2002, 03:00 PM
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Thanks for the write up.
On a side note, Subaru had to comply with the emissions regulations for a new car and so were forced to constrain the car to meet those. The emission regs are different for aftermarket mods than those of brand new cars. Which is why Prodrive can get away with fewer cats, and a sports cat in the downpipe.
I guess Subaru could have worked a way round the EU regs so that the car produced 280/300 Bhp out of the box, but that would have required a completley different engine/exhuast/ECU design and therefore increased the price.
The old PPP made the old Mk1 car, what it should have been in the first place, but again emissions regs prevented it.
On a side note, Subaru had to comply with the emissions regulations for a new car and so were forced to constrain the car to meet those. The emission regs are different for aftermarket mods than those of brand new cars. Which is why Prodrive can get away with fewer cats, and a sports cat in the downpipe.
I guess Subaru could have worked a way round the EU regs so that the car produced 280/300 Bhp out of the box, but that would have required a completley different engine/exhuast/ECU design and therefore increased the price.
The old PPP made the old Mk1 car, what it should have been in the first place, but again emissions regs prevented it.
10 October 2002, 03:01 PM
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*LMAO*....well you know where my office is...pop in have a coffee....chill for a while....and I'll see if I can't side swipe a few trees in it!!! NOT...
Catch ya later.
Tom
Catch ya later.
Tom
10 October 2002, 03:07 PM
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Excellent, excellent 
. I'd love to see how it goes. Are you going around to Rum's?
Perhaps it'll do a better job of pulling away from an 'umble MY00 with downpipe and dawes than Rum*'s did the other day. It must have been the weight disadvantage.
. I'd love to see how it goes. Are you going around to Rum's? Perhaps it'll do a better job of pulling away from an 'umble MY00 with downpipe and dawes than Rum*'s did the other day. It must have been the weight disadvantage.
10 October 2002, 03:14 PM
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I also have the Scooby Sport mid and back section, so where do they stand with the warranty?
If the warranty is still void because of the exhaust system i will wait to see scoobysport's ECU upgrade.
If the warranty is still void because of the exhaust system i will wait to see scoobysport's ECU upgrade.
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10 October 2002, 03:27 PM
#12
Let me get this straight.
You paid £2K for STi Down Pipe with Cat, STi ECU performance pack, Bolts and gaskets.
You didnt even try the whole package as it was design/tested and warranted after waiting almost a year?
The centre section and backbox do have a performance influence, they dont just affect the sound.
Trying to get my head around that one and failing miserably.
You paid £2K for STi Down Pipe with Cat, STi ECU performance pack, Bolts and gaskets.
You didnt even try the whole package as it was design/tested and warranted after waiting almost a year?
The centre section and backbox do have a performance influence, they dont just affect the sound.
Trying to get my head around that one and failing miserably.
10 October 2002, 03:38 PM
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Jacey boy - as I said, I'm pretty impressed with what it does and I'd recommend anyone with an STi 7 to get the PPP or equivalent.
I just don't like the fact the other manufacturer's put out UK spec cars that meet the regs and are OK and Subaru put out the STi and strangled the engine to get it through the regs.
Everyone with an STi 7 is going to want to do a PPP or similar to release the engine from it's leash and pay extra money so why not just do something (as other manufacturer's have) in the first place even if it puts up the cost. I can't figure it would put anymore than £2,000 on the cost i.e. what the PPP costs and it would save everyone alot of waiting, hassle, headaches etc.
I just don't like the fact the other manufacturer's put out UK spec cars that meet the regs and are OK and Subaru put out the STi and strangled the engine to get it through the regs.
Everyone with an STi 7 is going to want to do a PPP or similar to release the engine from it's leash and pay extra money so why not just do something (as other manufacturer's have) in the first place even if it puts up the cost. I can't figure it would put anymore than £2,000 on the cost i.e. what the PPP costs and it would save everyone alot of waiting, hassle, headaches etc.
10 October 2002, 03:43 PM
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John - I put on the Scoobysport Back box and Exhaust when I first got the STi 7 in April to try and get rid of some of the Turbo lag (and make it sound much better )
When KT Greens were putting the PPP on they recommended I leave the Scoobysport back box and mid-section on since the Prodrive midsection had a silencer in the middle of it. The point was, if I wanted the maximum, I'm trying to make the best from the bits I already had as well as the bits I've just bought. You can only buy the PPP as a complete package....
)When KT Greens were putting the PPP on they recommended I leave the Scoobysport back box and mid-section on since the Prodrive midsection had a silencer in the middle of it. The point was, if I wanted the maximum, I'm trying to make the best from the bits I already had as well as the bits I've just bought. You can only buy the PPP as a complete package....
10 October 2002, 03:51 PM
#15
No disrespect to your dealer, but how the hell can they recomend you doing that when they have no knowledge of the effects, you may find the performance is not as good without the matched components.
I am not saying it definately will be worse, but i wouldnt be surprised if that were the case if Prodrive have done their mapping, matching properly.
I am just amazed you didnt even try it as intended.
I am not saying it definately will be worse, but i wouldnt be surprised if that were the case if Prodrive have done their mapping, matching properly.
I am just amazed you didnt even try it as intended.
10 October 2002, 03:52 PM
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Knooby,
Ok, but you dont seem like, "its an amaizing transformation of the car", I have a TSL De-cat + Group N rear box and that freed up some lag, so I dont wana be spending £2000 on something that will just make the turbo cut in at 3,000rpm instead of 4,000?
Ok, but you dont seem like, "its an amaizing transformation of the car", I have a TSL De-cat + Group N rear box and that freed up some lag, so I dont wana be spending £2000 on something that will just make the turbo cut in at 3,000rpm instead of 4,000?
10 October 2002, 04:00 PM
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John - I'm going to put on the Prodrive Mid-section and Back box and compare at a later date. I'll report back what I find. KT Greens said they'd do the changeover for free since it was part of the original pack price. I'll then stick with whichever feels the best.
Jacey Boy - as I said in the first post, I was looking at the turbo lag first cos it's my main bug bear but it transforms the engine in any gear. It's a must for the STi 7.....
Jacey Boy - as I said in the first post, I was looking at the turbo lag first cos it's my main bug bear but it transforms the engine in any gear. It's a must for the STi 7.....
10 October 2002, 04:03 PM
#18
OK. back to front IMHO but there you go.
This takes you out of the "what does the PPP feel like" show though, because right now you dont have a PPP!
So who does? Step up the next victim please. LOL
This takes you out of the "what does the PPP feel like" show though, because right now you dont have a PPP!
So who does? Step up the next victim please.
LOL
10 October 2002, 04:07 PM
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John et al.
If the STi7 has the same exhaust system as the MY01/02 then it is a four piece exhaust system.
Downpipe (with cat), link pipe (wit cat), centre section, back box.
The third cat lives in the up-pipe.
The PPP is liekly to have removed the cat in the link pipe (althoug) the original heat shield will still be in place.
The centre section has a resonator in it and a large one at that, meaning the gases mill about before being expelled.
Performance systems that have straight though pipes (such as HKS) mean that the resonators are removed as are all the twists in the pipes, that also slow down the exhaust gases.
From what I know, up to a point the fast the gases are expelled the better, the less twists and turns the gas has to go through the better.
Mark
If the STi7 has the same exhaust system as the MY01/02 then it is a four piece exhaust system.
Downpipe (with cat), link pipe (wit cat), centre section, back box.
The third cat lives in the up-pipe.
The PPP is liekly to have removed the cat in the link pipe (althoug) the original heat shield will still be in place.
The centre section has a resonator in it and a large one at that, meaning the gases mill about before being expelled.
Performance systems that have straight though pipes (such as HKS) mean that the resonators are removed as are all the twists in the pipes, that also slow down the exhaust gases.
From what I know, up to a point the fast the gases are expelled the better, the less twists and turns the gas has to go through the better.
Mark
10 October 2002, 04:10 PM
#21
Not Always true Mark. Exhaust designs are far more complex than making the gasses run straight, more so on a NA engine i admit, but that can still be relevent on a turbo engine.
10 October 2002, 04:16 PM
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I had my STI PPP fitted on Tuesday.Having done over 250 miles (nearly 2 tanks of optimax!) now I think it was def worth the money. The increase in torque is really noticeable, especially when trying to fit into a small gap at a roundabout without wanting to fry the clutch!
It sounds better, not as loud as I was expecting but that suits me! It does seem to sound better the longer it's run for though.
As Knobby said though there is a strange noise coming from the engine which i can only explain as turbo chatter and the dump valve seems to make a lot more noise too.
Leon
It sounds better, not as loud as I was expecting but that suits me! It does seem to sound better the longer it's run for though.
As Knobby said though there is a strange noise coming from the engine which i can only explain as turbo chatter and the dump valve seems to make a lot more noise too.
Leon
10 October 2002, 04:20 PM
#24
It's bound to be running higher boost to get the torque/power increase so you will hear more turbo whistle and the BOV will be passing more gasses when you back off.
The exhaust downpipe will be more free flowing too, this tends to alter the acoustics considerably. Not the noise levels, but the sound it makes will be diferent.
The exhaust downpipe will be more free flowing too, this tends to alter the acoustics considerably. Not the noise levels, but the sound it makes will be diferent.
10 October 2002, 04:23 PM
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10 October 2002, 04:25 PM
#26
you may also be hearing mild waste gate chatter, it depends how much boost they have dialled in, you normally need around 1.5BAR and above to get chatter, but it varies from turbo/car to turbo/car.
Get a boost gauge on it, see what it is peaking and holding at.
Get a boost gauge on it, see what it is peaking and holding at.
10 October 2002, 04:26 PM
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OK, so the whimps question - having modified an MY00 to the point where I needed ear defenders to drive in it, I am pleased to be driving the STi7 where I can hold a conversation and listen to music without risking premature deafness.
Whilst I'd love the benefits of PPP, I don't really fancy a return to the deafening noise levels.
So, from those who have fitted PPP (rather than the Scoobysport exhaust variant) what is the low down on noise?
Cheers,
Nick
Whilst I'd love the benefits of PPP, I don't really fancy a return to the deafening noise levels.
So, from those who have fitted PPP (rather than the Scoobysport exhaust variant) what is the low down on noise?
Cheers,
Nick
10 October 2002, 04:27 PM
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Seemed to have lost the plot on how many cats are left in or out 
I thought thouching removing the "up" pipe was 'Voodoo' spike boost hell 
Is it a Cat in Uppipe,PPP sports cat,silencer then tail pipe ?
Leon,
Having mine fitted in 16 hours time Hopefully another positive note.
Confused Tony (we are simple us ****ry folk) [farmer accent off] LOL
I thought thouching removing the "up" pipe was 'Voodoo' spike boost hell Is it a Cat in Uppipe,PPP sports cat,silencer then tail pipe ?
Leon,
Having mine fitted in 16 hours time
Hopefully another positive note.Confused Tony (we are simple us ****ry folk) [farmer accent off]
LOL
10 October 2002, 04:52 PM
#30
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To clarify:
Standard STi has primary cat in d/p, and second cat in front centre section, resonator in rear centre section, and backbox..
STi PPP has hi flow sports cat d/p, cat bypass front centre section, retains OEM rear centre section with resonator box, and has Prodrive backbox.
BTW, noting what our STi's show, I shall be surprised if PPP shows boost peak exceeding 1.35 BAR or thereabouts.....
[Edited by Dave T-S - 10/10/2002 4:54:55 PM]
Standard STi has primary cat in d/p, and second cat in front centre section, resonator in rear centre section, and backbox..
STi PPP has hi flow sports cat d/p, cat bypass front centre section, retains OEM rear centre section with resonator box, and has Prodrive backbox.
BTW, noting what our STi's show, I shall be surprised if PPP shows boost peak exceeding 1.35 BAR or thereabouts.....
[Edited by Dave T-S - 10/10/2002 4:54:55 PM]