Flat Four what's it about?
10 August 2001, 04:49 PM
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Whilst out last night I saw a scoob with a sticker on the side with FLAT FOUR on it with a union jack. It looked good. What does it represent? Where do you get them from?
anybody Know?
anybody Know?
10 August 2001, 05:07 PM
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Flat Four represents the fact that the scooby engine is a flat four layout, also known as a boxer configuration.
as for the stickers, maybe it's someone's scoobynet ID.
Wonder who it could be as I did see the same car at the bentley meet this year.
As for getting stickers, I believe a certain Sticky Pete might make them, DrEvil might know as well, as might Rum* as i think they both had similar stickers on thier P1's
[This message has been edited by Markus (edited 10 August 2001).]
as for the stickers, maybe it's someone's scoobynet ID.
Wonder who it could be as I did see the same car at the bentley meet this year.
As for getting stickers, I believe a certain Sticky Pete might make them, DrEvil might know as well, as might Rum* as i think they both had similar stickers on thier P1's
[This message has been edited by Markus (edited 10 August 2001).]
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11 August 2001, 10:52 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tractor:
<B>Is that the correct piston firing sequence then? 2 at the same time? Interesting.
[/quote]
I don't see 2 firing at the same time. It's a four-stroke, so each cylinder only fires every other revolution. There are two going 'downwards' (towards the crankshaft) at any one time: one is on induction stroke and one on ignition.
[This message has been edited by carl (edited 11 August 2001).]
<B>Is that the correct piston firing sequence then? 2 at the same time? Interesting.
[/quote]
I don't see 2 firing at the same time. It's a four-stroke, so each cylinder only fires every other revolution. There are two going 'downwards' (towards the crankshaft) at any one time: one is on induction stroke and one on ignition.
[This message has been edited by carl (edited 11 August 2001).]
11 August 2001, 01:40 PM
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I saw this car down at the Clay Pigeon kart circuit in Dorset a couple of last weekend. I think I remember seeing someone posting on here as flatfour a while back!
For a list of other flat four boxer engined car check out the Boxer Cup Series on GT3!
For a list of other flat four boxer engined car check out the Boxer Cup Series on GT3!
11 August 2001, 04:32 PM
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Thanks for replies, made me chuckle especially the address one. I did know that a flat four is the "boxer" engine but good of you guys to demonstrate it so well.
The car I saw was silver and may well be Jacko's. If it is a club whats it all about where do you meet and where do I get the stickers!!!
The car I saw was silver and may well be Jacko's. If it is a club whats it all about where do you meet and where do I get the stickers!!!
11 August 2001, 11:24 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by camk:
<B>Flat Four Boxer = Cheap Alternative to Flat 6 Boxer. Added Turbo to make up for missing cc's.[/quote]
If that's true - why do Subaru also do a flat six boxer (the H6) in the Legacy? Surely isn't it a case of different engines suiting different types of cars (similar to why BMW continues to use a straight 6 in the M3 despite there being bigger engines available in the BMW range)?
Chris
<B>Flat Four Boxer = Cheap Alternative to Flat 6 Boxer. Added Turbo to make up for missing cc's.[/quote]
If that's true - why do Subaru also do a flat six boxer (the H6) in the Legacy? Surely isn't it a case of different engines suiting different types of cars (similar to why BMW continues to use a straight 6 in the M3 despite there being bigger engines available in the BMW range)?
Chris
14 August 2001, 08:39 AM
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Hi John,
FlatFour is a group of friends that all went across the pond via seacat on convoy.
It was a way letting other drivers know that we were together in a convoy.
The name/stickers has seemed to stick (if you pardon the pun), and from time to time we all meet up at a local, organizing our next excursion. You are more than welcome to come along and join us. It is not associated with any club in any shape or form and is open to anyone who has a passion for Motorsport from anything like an AC to Westfield, not just Scoobs.
Drop me an email if you fancy a couple of trips over the pond or just to pop along and have a couple of jars. You never know, hang around long enough and you might even get a STICKER!
Cheers, Jacko.
FlatFour is a group of friends that all went across the pond via seacat on convoy.
It was a way letting other drivers know that we were together in a convoy.
The name/stickers has seemed to stick (if you pardon the pun), and from time to time we all meet up at a local, organizing our next excursion. You are more than welcome to come along and join us. It is not associated with any club in any shape or form and is open to anyone who has a passion for Motorsport from anything like an AC to Westfield, not just Scoobs.
Drop me an email if you fancy a couple of trips over the pond or just to pop along and have a couple of jars. You never know, hang around long enough and you might even get a STICKER!
Cheers, Jacko.
14 August 2001, 01:49 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Chris L:
<B> similar to why BMW continues to use a straight 6 in the M3 despite there being bigger engines available in the BMW range
[/quote]
Because its the best engine they make?
Seriously - the bigger engines have less power (except M5 engine), and by using a bigger engine with more cylinders the weight goes up.
Hartage can supply an M3 with the M5 5.0 V8 tuned to 460bhp, and whilst is it a bit quicker in a straight line (but less than 0.5 secs to 100) it is slower round a circuit as its heavier weight means it doesn't corner/handle as well.
History lesson..
Back in the 1950s all GP cars were enormous heavy things with enormous 6/8/10/12/... litre engines. Colin Chapman turned up in a tiny car with an ex-army water pump for an engine - and trounced the lot of them as he was carrying so little weight because of a lighter engine in a lighter/smaller car. The world sat up an listened an modern GP racers were born!! The same principle still exists with the Caterhams. An £18k 900cc engined caterham has the power to weight of a £170k 6-litre Diablo and still beats it (and almost everything else) on a circuit
This same 900cc car can lap N'burgring in 8.02 - the altime production car record is only 7.95 (and is held by another Caterham )
Weight is more important than power!!
<B> similar to why BMW continues to use a straight 6 in the M3 despite there being bigger engines available in the BMW range
[/quote]
Because its the best engine they make?
Seriously - the bigger engines have less power (except M5 engine), and by using a bigger engine with more cylinders the weight goes up.
Hartage can supply an M3 with the M5 5.0 V8 tuned to 460bhp, and whilst is it a bit quicker in a straight line (but less than 0.5 secs to 100) it is slower round a circuit as its heavier weight means it doesn't corner/handle as well.
History lesson..
Back in the 1950s all GP cars were enormous heavy things with enormous 6/8/10/12/... litre engines. Colin Chapman turned up in a tiny car with an ex-army water pump for an engine - and trounced the lot of them as he was carrying so little weight because of a lighter engine in a lighter/smaller car. The world sat up an listened an modern GP racers were born!! The same principle still exists with the Caterhams. An £18k 900cc engined caterham has the power to weight of a £170k 6-litre Diablo and still beats it (and almost everything else) on a circuit
This same 900cc car can lap N'burgring in 8.02 - the altime production car record is only 7.95 (and is held by another Caterham )Weight is more important than power!!
14 August 2001, 02:07 PM
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You best drop Salsa-King an email, he can provide those stickers
Its s'posed to look like the rally car stickers, you know, like were it says Burns..
Flat-four could have been the guy that posts as 'flat four' on here... He was at Bentley.
I've gotta get some new stickers for my new scoob
Alex
Its s'posed to look like the rally car stickers, you know, like were it says Burns..
Flat-four could have been the guy that posts as 'flat four' on here... He was at Bentley.
I've gotta get some new stickers for my new scoob
Alex
14 August 2001, 02:34 PM
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Gary (sorry, off topic): I'm not an expert in BMW history, but I heard a guy that knows them pretty well say (predict ?) that the next model would have a V8, as they are pretty much (in production trim) at the end of the V6 evolution scale. (yes I know about Hartge etc - but those are not exactly production models). Guy I'm talking about used to work for Hartge BTW.
Any more info on that one ?
Theo
Any more info on that one ?
Theo
14 August 2001, 05:43 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by EvilBevel:
<B>Gary (sorry, off topic): I'm not an expert in BMW history, but I heard a guy that knows them pretty well say (predict ?) that the next model would have a V8, as they are pretty much (in production trim) at the end of the V6 evolution scale. (yes I know about Hartge etc - but those are not exactly production models). Guy I'm talking about used to work for Hartge BTW.
Any more info on that one ?
Theo[/quote]
Rumour has it that BMW looked at a V8 for the latest M3, but a V8 will always be heavier than a 6-cyl, the only advantages being greater potential for mid-range torque or less inertia to allow higher revving, but much higher than the current M3 and drivability will be lost. Even the Merc have gone from V8 to V6 for their M3 equivalent (C32). There is a V8 3-series planned, but it will fit between the 330 and M3 (probably the 4.4 V8 286bhp) but it will be set as a cruiser - csi badge and will not be much quicker than the 330.
...and your friend is not as informed as you think - BMW don't make a V6 - they are all straight sixes
<B>Gary (sorry, off topic): I'm not an expert in BMW history, but I heard a guy that knows them pretty well say (predict ?) that the next model would have a V8, as they are pretty much (in production trim) at the end of the V6 evolution scale. (yes I know about Hartge etc - but those are not exactly production models). Guy I'm talking about used to work for Hartge BTW.
Any more info on that one ?
Theo[/quote]
Rumour has it that BMW looked at a V8 for the latest M3, but a V8 will always be heavier than a 6-cyl, the only advantages being greater potential for mid-range torque or less inertia to allow higher revving, but much higher than the current M3 and drivability will be lost. Even the Merc have gone from V8 to V6 for their M3 equivalent (C32). There is a V8 3-series planned, but it will fit between the 330 and M3 (probably the 4.4 V8 286bhp) but it will be set as a cruiser - csi badge and will not be much quicker than the 330.
...and your friend is not as informed as you think - BMW don't make a V6 - they are all straight sixes
14 August 2001, 06:42 PM
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I'd always thought 6 cylinders were used over 4 cylinder engines in applications that required more refinement. The V8 over V6 weight difference sounds right as I drove a 1.8T A4 and then the 2.4 A4 and the 1.8 was just as fast but more tharshy sounding. I think the 2.4 had higher BHP but the weight was more than the 1.8T so they balanced out(V4 - V6).
On bikes big thumpers(single cylinders) have great torque and low down acceleration but little refinement(smoothness) and top speed is rubbish in comparison to v4's.
Actually Bikes give the best indication of engine design and weight being paramount 600cc engines go from 40-50BHP right up to 120BHP. The old question of how bigs your bike Mister is a bit outdated by newer technology. Really we should be asking whats your Power to Weight ratio, but it doesn't have the same ring to it.
Cheers
Cammy
[This message has been edited by camk (edited 14 August 2001).]
[This message has been edited by camk (edited 14 August 2001).]
On bikes big thumpers(single cylinders) have great torque and low down acceleration but little refinement(smoothness) and top speed is rubbish in comparison to v4's.
Actually Bikes give the best indication of engine design and weight being paramount 600cc engines go from 40-50BHP right up to 120BHP. The old question of how bigs your bike Mister is a bit outdated by newer technology. Really we should be asking whats your Power to Weight ratio
, but it doesn't have the same ring to it.Cheers
Cammy
[This message has been edited by camk (edited 14 August 2001).]
[This message has been edited by camk (edited 14 August 2001).]
15 August 2001, 12:48 AM
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John, no worries. I haven't checked on the management yet, but I believe the next available baby sitter is on the last Sunday this month. Probably around the 1.0pm time at some pub in Essex.
Email me off-line so as avoid the muppets
Cheers Jacko...
Email me off-line so as avoid the muppets
Cheers Jacko...
15 August 2001, 03:31 AM
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Right! Wako Jacko does the seacat go to NewYork now i bet that's hairy. Gary C is 7.95 round the Ring?, the same as 8.35 . Camk what the f$ck's an audi v4 (slant) i think or was it Ingver carlsons 60's saab in disguise,(you live in germany?) i bet Mr felstead pulls me on this but it is from memory and i'm only 35. PS. how do you get to talk with the muppets or are they on here anyway. C'ant wait for it JZA
15 August 2001, 11:26 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GaryC:
<B>
Hartge can supply an M3 with the M5 5.0 V8 tuned to 460bhp, and whilst is it a bit quicker in a straight line (but less than 0.5 secs to 100)[/quote]
bl00dy hell, 0.5 secs 0 - 100. thats quick
dave
<B>
Hartge can supply an M3 with the M5 5.0 V8 tuned to 460bhp, and whilst is it a bit quicker in a straight line (but less than 0.5 secs to 100)[/quote]
bl00dy hell, 0.5 secs 0 - 100. thats quick
dave
15 August 2001, 01:51 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by sasman:
<B>
Gary C is 7.95 round the Ring?, the same as 8.35
[/quote]
Sorry - 7min55sec
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by druddle:
<B> bl00dy hell, 0.5 secs 0 - 100. thats quick
- 0.5 secs DIFFERENCE
[/quote]
<B>
Gary C is 7.95 round the Ring?, the same as 8.35
[/quote]
Sorry - 7min55sec
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by druddle:
<B> bl00dy hell, 0.5 secs 0 - 100. thats quick
- 0.5 secs DIFFERENCE [/quote]
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