Charlie H

I can confirm that all dealers in the uk have been send an inspection report to fill in when you go and see them. I went today as I had a day off work and as I was thinking of selling the car soon (not through choice, but that's another story) I thought I had better get it checked as no one would want to buy it unless it had been confirmed ok.
The dealer inpected the car, recorded all vin, chassis, engine numbers, all info on vin plate AND 3 checks for uk conformity (ie fuel inlet restrictor fitted, speedo in mph and rear fog light fitted) This sheet is then e-mailed to FHI in Japan who then pass the details on to the Jap police to check.

They then send a copy of the report to the owner AND to your local police station.

I have then been told that the Stolen car unit will then check the confirmed vin against the international stolen vehicle register to see if it has been nicked. So basically the police can't check the info until FHI have confirmed it???
So how come the Skyline owner got pulled and the info found just like that? I actually spoke to one of my local traffic cops today who told me to go to a dealer because there was no way for him to check for me? I'm really confused now, thay could do it in the program but not at my local station

Anyway, I've paid my £25 plus vat don't forget but at least I'll know one way or the other, and if it's clean then at least I'll have documents to prove it and if it's nicked I can stop buying bit's for it and put the old ones back on ( you know, brakes, spoiler, clear lamps, wheels etc)

Fingers crossed

cryptwalk

I won't be doing that, Fair enougth if your selling the car and want a report on it but i have no plans to sell mine, when i do this will probably be all forgot about.

This whole thing is getting very .
If the police are unable to check our car's then what do they expect us all to do???

"They then send a copy of the report to the owner AND to your local police station"

This would do their job for them.

Go in to subaru and hand over 25? Not likley
Subaru main dealers have never wanted my money before so they cirtainly arn't getting it now!!

Good luck with it mate

I'll just sit here and wait for a call, which should be never.

John Catlin

cryptwalk,

Agree completely with you.

Let the Jap Insurance Companies do the talking and also paying.

John Catlin

Charlie H

That's a fair comment guys but personally I wouldn't want my car being seized by the cops when I've spent £thousands on mods/upgrades as I might have trouble getting back all the bits from the car before it's auctioned (would lose a lot more money than just a £25 charge. Could cost me the car AND all mods ), and besides the dealer I went to for the check used to service imports anyway so I've nothing against him, I just see it as a Jap hpi check, cost is the same as a check over here anyway and it will give me peice of mind.
Another point is I've only had the car 10 months and it was checked over by a vehicle checking firm when I bought it so if there is a problem I should have some comeback as it will be within the first year (think there was a £10,000 protection warranty within the first year, and the dealer is still in business so any probs I have some come back. Leave it for a year or so until you get pulled and the dealer may have ceased business and you would have no comeback. But that's just my view, at least I will be 100% certain one way or the other, will you?

cryptwalk

Fair point, but for me i'm afraid my dealer as already gone i have some paperwork from japan i got with the car but nothing concrete I have had the car checked by a X pro car ringer who assures me nothing has been tamperd with he even put thinners on the bulkhead as acording to him that would show any fresh painting and scratch mark's from sand paper.

I know this does'nt prove it's not stolen but i know it's come straight from japan auction house to hear. I'd just rarther wait for them to do something about it as my subaru dealer last time we had word's gave me a therm " them import's are putting us out of bussiness, we won't sell you anything for it" and slamed down the phone.

As for my bit's i have put on it, i have recipt's for everything therefore there is no way they could keep them on it. What they would basicly have left is a shell belive me.
Then i could buy it back for about 500 sorted.

It's ok for you you have people to fall back onto, great i'm glad you do. I don't so you understand why i must do it this way there is no way they are taking my car off me that i have worked so hard for and put so much money into! If they want it it'll be a shell i tell ya.

With any look it'll all be fine and all this will be forgotten about.

mutant_matt

Chaps,

I <B><I>STILL</I></B> don't see how the Police can possibly seize a car that you either

a) effectively bought in Japan and then personally imported

b) bought from a company in this country after *they* imported it.

Surely, the Japanese Insurance companies who presumably are now technically the owners of these stolen cars, don't have any say in the matter as the law in Japan only covers..........Japan!!!!?????

Anybody spoken to a solicitor about this yet?

Matt

cryptwalk

No i havent yet but will be doing very soon.

I to am about all the legal side it all seem's to of been hyped up IMO.

My car has come from a auction house in japan, surley they by law have to check the vin before putting this up for auction???

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Mutant Matt,
you knocked the nail right on the head, "the japanese insurance companies own the cars" and if they want it back they will have it back.
The fact that interpol (international police) have their fingers in this pie means that ALL of the stolen vehicles WILL be recovered if they have made it to the shores of the UK.
The fact that your going to sit and wait for the cops to knock on your door only delays the inevitable for some, they will come and there aint nowt you can do about it You may have bought a stolen car without knowing it but the original owner also paid for that car and thus he/she hasnt sold it they are still the owner (or the insurance company if they paid out).
Part with the 25quid, you may as well do that now, i know that i would want to know sooner rather than later if my car was going to be "returned" to its owner/insurance company than sit there and carry on spending thousands of pounds adding modifications to her and loosing even more money....
If your car is stolen, you wont be over looked, your just going to be embarrased when the cops turn up on your doorstep, all the neighbours looking and them taking your car away, no ta

Tony

Charlie H

Thanks Tony, at least somone else can see my point in this debate. They have e-mailed it to Japan so hopefully should be hearing something back soon. Will keep you all posted (fingers crossed)

scoobycar60

Full Rant on!!
Err... TonyBurns.... back in the real world, if I suspected my car was stolen I certainly would not be rushing to the nearest Police Station to hand over my keys, at least I would enjoy it for as long as possible. I think the many victims involved feel cheated and a "soft" target for retribution by a police force that is acting for Japanese business not the common good of the people of this country. I'm sure a slice of the funds released at auctions finds its way into police funds making this financially a self funding project thus popular "upstairs"; Looks good statistically too.
It truly makes me sick that the Japanese government allowed this to go on 100,000 cars!, what no one noticed! I don't think so!The Japanese insurance companies were that incompetent? along with their government?
Go for the guilty ones, the exporters and importers, those in Dubai if this IS an international police action these are the jokers that should be nailed but, then again they would be "hard" targets with less help from the locals so as usual it will be business as usual and they are ignored.
No Justice here at all!The Japanese allowed all this to go on, let them cop the insurance bill too or go after the thieves in their own country and recover funds there not turn our police into their "lackeys" to hound the innocent and unlucky victims here!The police, however polite and understanding they may seem will not make any friends here at all, the politeness just gives credence to the fact the people involved are viewed as victims by the police involved.
Rant off

John Catlin

Charlie H had a very good reason to check out his car and I would not dispute this.

For other people I would get all your paperwork in order and in a file.

From here look at who you purchased from and then start checking down the line.

I have a feeling that once you havr all your paperwork in order it could be worth a phone call to CAB and see what they have to say or may be the Trading Standards depending on where and how you purchased the vehicle.

All the best

John Catlin

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

My 2p's worth (again )
Scoobycar, i am in the real world m8.
Some people aint going to like what im going to write now but im not bothered and IMHO i think there are some very valid points im going to make

Charlie was afraid that his car may be stolen and thus went to check it out, and rightly so, and knowing that a car is the SECOND biggest investment that you will ever have (house being the first) you cannot tip toe around this.
I take it scooby that you have an import?? correct me if im wrong.
Does your car have any form of history with it??
Do you know anything about the car your now driving, has it been involved in an accident and repaired? is it stolen??
If people think that Britain is the only place on this planet that cars are stolen from then there are some very stupid people out there
Dont you think that i didnt check where my car came from when i bought it?(a nice subaru dealer in holland )

If your car was from Britain, would you, knowing that its a high risk car, not check it out?? Now i hear cries of "i cant check it out, its an import" Right then, thats answered that question, if it came from japan, second hand, and you know sweet nothing about it, why did you buy the bleeding thing??????
The only import cars i would buy are ones from reputable dealers, ones that have come new from the factory and their first place of registration is the UK, and if you think im stupid enough to throw all my money into a car that, for quite a while now, even before i bought my MY00 Turbo have had suspicions about being stolen and shipped to the UK as imports then you are mistaken.

To me, anyone who goes out and buys one of these "bargain performance cars" is a complete and utter fool to themselves and thus deserves all they get (harsh thou it seems )
Many people are going to get stung here and there isnt anything anyone can do, except pay the japanese insurance company the money its paid out, and thats the sad point about it, your going to have to pay twice for the car you bought originally

But the moral of this is "if it seems in anyway doubious, dont bloody well touch it!!"
No history = no good.

Tony

cryptwalk

Fair point's made by both side's of the argument.

How far can you go to check out buying a second hand car be it a import or not??

The only sure way is to buy new like you tony, however some of cannot afford to do that what with house and kid's etc etc.

I purchasd a import does that make me a fool?

Well i am a muppet!

I won't be taking mine to a dealer as i said before they never wanted my money before!

If it turn's out they want to see my car surley they will sent me a letter rarther than banging on my door like i did something wrong?

Good luck with it charlie, i do see your point, however as i said in a previous reply, you have something to fall back on i don't. I have all the paper work on mine from japan and i know no number's have been altered so i cannot see mine being stolen but if it is when/if they get it back it'll be a shell.

cryptwalk

WHICH JAPANESE GREYS ARE LIKELY TO HAVE BEEN STOLEN?

The list below represents the cars that are most likely to have been stolen:
Toyota Land Cruiser (especially VX, diesel, seven-seaters and long wheel base versions)
Toyota Prado
Nissan Skyline GTR
Honda NSX
Honda Prelude (small numbers involved)
Mitsubishi Evolution V and VI
Mitsubishi Pajero (often badged as Shogun)
Mitsubishi 3000 GTO
Toyota Harrier (often badged at Lexus RX300)
Toyota Aristo (often badged as Lexus GS300)
Toyota Celsior (often badged as Lexus LS400)
Toyota Supra (small numbers involved)
Subaru WRX (small numbers involved) *NOTE*

WILL THE POLICE SEIZE MY CAR?

Because there are 43 different police forces in the UK, as yet there is no definitive and consistent strategy on stolen grey import seizures.

Hampshire Constabulary and the Metropolitan Police have already seized approximately 1,000 cars and some have been auctioned off and the money sent back to the original owners.

But given the large numbers of cars involved, the police may not decide to seize and impound stolen greys at all, but issue instead a PACE Notice (Police And Criminal Evidence Act 1984), which allows the police to inspect your vehicle, after which it will be returned to you with a written statement that there may be issues over its true identity and that you may not have legal title.

The police are unlikely to seize your car and put it through an auction unless they've been able to clearly establish its real identity and trace the original owner or insurance company in Japan.

Can Anybody Else Seize My Car?

The only other person who may want to seize your car is a loss adjuster working for a Japanese insurance company. The major Japanese insurance companies now have agents based in the UK contracted to seize and sell cars for which they can prove legal title.

However you should only surrender your car to a loss adjuster when you are absolutely sure they are bona fide. Do not allow any loss adjuster to take possession of your car without talking to your solicitor first, even though the loss adjuster provides appropriate documentation. Only your solicitor will be able to establish if the loss adjuster has a legal right to seize your car.

scoobycar60

Tony, no offence mean't but I think we will have to agree to differ here, nothing you have said has changed my opinion. For your information I do have an import Sti and a Uk sourced MY01 as well. I have no concern as to the Sti's origin as it was bought from a major specialist UK importer with all the relavent paperwork,true it was from a japanese auction but cars are graded at auctions and a lot can be learned by a company who use specialist japanese buyers. This was all about 2 years ago before all the present facts were revealed, to suggest all of us import buyers are stupid is a bit strong as it is only recently that these issues have become a major concern. Has anyone found out yet they "own" a "hot" one. for Scooby owners I expect this all be a storm in a tea cup!

Kevin Groat

Scoobycar60,

Agree 100% with your comments, I'm in a similar position to yourself. Tony's thread is there purely to wind up us import owners - he says nothing of any real substance and seems to be taking over where Quentin and the press hype left off - 'many people are going to get stung here' - great words of wisdom those. It's the old 'my purchase was better than yours' debate and I'll treat it in the same manner as I did the original story. I'm sure as hell not going anywhere near a Subaru dealer - they don't want anything to do with us - the feeling's mutual. If anything, Subaru should accept part responsibility for this whole import mess - they created a grey market by flogging much better spec cars in Japan at reasonable prices - wherever a demand arises, a market, legal or not, will occur. I did plenty checking when I bought my car and nothing I've read has changed my mind. I'm not even sure it's a storm in a teacup - more of a squall I think.

Kevin.

Ross Taylor

Kevin is right...I can see the way this is going...It seems that some people are keen to knock the greys at every opportunity...Bet I.M are rubbing their hands at the prospect of lots of £25's, and a chance to say "We warned you about buying cheap superior spec machine..."

Ross

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

OK,
I did say that some of you wont agree with what ive put, now read it again!!!
I have said that anyone who buys a car with no history is a fool and as per normal that is true, as i wouldnt even touch a uk sourced car without it.
I dont care if you have an sti or not, what i am saying is that anyone who is stupid enough to spend money on something that is even suspect to being dodgy is a fool.
Scooby, you put money into purchasing from an auction, and there is nothing wrong with that, the car is checked out there, the people im pointing the finger at who will whinge the most are the ones who dont look into what there getting, you did.
The fool is someone who throws his money on the table then after the purchase rants on about the possibility of his/her car being taken away by the police as its stolen.
As i have said before, no history (documentation for those who cant understand it) dont touch, simple as that.

Tony

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Kevin,
Re your comments......
Sorry mate, cant agree with you there.
Subaru UK have nothing to do with imports to this country, its called supply and demand.
The people who do this are the ones who make the money out of all of us, even me when i bought my uk spec import, yes i saved money on it, yes i have the dealer network and yes i suffered the good fate of IM.
My car doesnt have the 280ps that yours may, no im not jealous that you have a wrx or an sti, why should i be, if you ever take your car on the track you should know that there is vertually nothing in it between a uk car and an import.
The reason i bought a uk spec car is that i like to have a dealer i can go to if anything goes wrong, nothing else, i prefer security on a purchase rather than take the risk of having a nightmare of a time.
You say that IM and subaru uk dont want anything to do with your car, hey, you wanted a jap spec motor, you took the risk, not me, so dont give me grief about that, its not my decision, its yours.
If you sit down and read what im trying to say you may understand that im not putting all owners down, just the ones who go for the cheaper higher performance without the history to back it up. If your car has a history then you shouldnt have much to worry about, but as i also said, when i purchased my MY00 there was talk back then about how many imports where stolen and shipped to the UK.
I also emphasised that if you go through a reputable dealer you should also be ok, one that has been dealing with imports for years rather than the ones trying to make a fast buck out of it as they say.
Im not taking mr wilsons line on things here, ive had imported cars before you even knew about them as i was in the forces abroad for several years, i know what savings where to be had from them.

Im going to have a little rant about insurance and the police now.....
This talk about the police auctioning off the cars and them making money out of it...... what a bag of ****.
The police unfortunately cannot gain by any profits like this, the money will go to re-emburse the insurance companies of their losses.
As for the insurance companies and people saying that they dont or wont give their cars back...
sorry, when that knock comes on the door to the unfortunate ones you have no choice.... even if it was a uk car you would have to give up your car, and i know that all you jap spec owners should agree, that there is no difference in owning a uk car that is stolen than that of owning a jap car that is stolen..... the common factor is that YOU dont own the car the person who originally purchased that vehicle does.

I am not saying that all imports are suspect as you can see by my other replies but i also put down the safest route to buying an import.
At the end of the day, its you who takes the higher risk of buying an import not me, i would love an sti v6 but id only buy one new and one that has been registered in the UK from new.
We all own Impreza's and thats why we have a great club here, but if you take short cuts you suffer the consiquences, simple as that.

Regards,
Tony

Ken E

I know a guy who had his car nicked from a multi-storey car park a number of years ago. He subsequently spotted it on the street a couple of weeks later and reported it to the police. The police checked up and found that somebody else had registered it in their name and they went round to see them. They then told the original owner that he could not have his car back, as it was now the property of the new person as they had bought it in good faith and there was nothing he could do about it to claim it back. What is the difference between this and buying an import that was stolen from Japan ?

Also, if someone has to give up their car, don't they have some sort of claim against some government department for letting the car into the country in the first place and allowing it to be registered ? If there are so many stolen imports in this country and they are going to all be repossessed then this seems like a big enough thing to be escalated - if Quentin can go on TV and tell everyone they are driving around in stolen cars then there must be someone else out there who can champion the case of the consumer who has been let down by the government who allowed the situation to happen in the first place.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Hiya Ken,
Sorry to hear about your friends car but it was, in theory if the insurance hadnt paid out, still his car as he held the v5 in his name, thus making him the legal owner.
The police were out of order and he should have gone to his insurance co to sort the matter out.
There is no such thing as buying in good faith, faith does sod all for you because you should have checked the cars history, and if the new owner did (the new owner could have been the one who stolen the car in the first place!!) then he/she didnt do a good job of it!!
but anything that is stolen is always the original buyers property, no matter who buys it next.

Tony

Ken E

Tony

The V5 aka Registration Document only gives details of the recorded keeper. It actually says on it something along the lines of it not proving ownership.

In these sorts of instances it is difficult to prove ownership. Even having a receipt only proves you once owned it - I think it is impossible to prove you actually own a car right now. Can the original owner prove he never actually sold the car ? If he can then he can prove it is still his car, if not then the current owner can prove he bought the car on a later date therefore it must be his. I think something like this went on in that instance. Also, anyone could apply for a reg document at that time, there were no checks done to confirm the previous keeper had sold the car on - although the keeper may not have been the owner or so the reg document says, so what would this prove anyway ?

It can become a bit of a grey area in some cases with stolen UK cars, but maybe a bit more black and white with a grey import.

That's all from me

Ken

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Hiya Ken,
Your suppose to, when selling the car, fill out the form, owner to new owner and sign it, this is the evidence of sale to the DVLA as it proves change of ownership, anything else doesnt
(unless its a signed paper with bill of sale thus making it a legal? document)
But that sounds one hell of a dodgy person who had the car after it was stolen especially after asking for a new v5 (would be sent to owners home address upon request, or should be!) so i think that was probably a forged doc of some type.....
The police should have looked into it better but no doubt were too busy catching the real criminals speeding on the motorway

Tony