GranTurismo

Hello,

The new think advert is fantastic, I really think that its about time somthing s simple but effective as this was done. However....

When will the do an advert that tells pedestrians to look before they cross the road. I ALLWAYS (and I mean that) do LESS than 30 in all 30 Limits and yet the slower I go the more risks they take. One day I will video tape a drive from one side of town to the other just to show how many times pedestrains nearly kill themselves....

The number of times I have to avoid them when they are within 50m of a crossing is ridiculous.

but still SLOW DOWN IN TOWN anyway!

spudgun

saw it tonight, VERY direct, but good. i never 'play' in 30mph areas, i keep under the limit in built up areas.
a cynic might say that its a good way of justifying ridiculous 30mph limits in areas where there doesnt need to be, and all the extra income that the speed cameras in them areas bring in.
but surely thats TOO cynical, or is it?

Tim Taylor

You bet me to it GT

I thought that advert was very good. It's about time there are more harder hitting adverts relating to road safety and drink driving. I remember seeing some Australian adverts on tv once...phew...even harder hitting.

Tim

Chris L

Agree about people not using crossings. Makes me so angry - saw it twice yesterday on a busy high street. One was a couple with a young child, trying to cross literally 10-15 yards from a crossing!!! It really does make me mad.

Chris (rant over)

Spec

Saw an item on the news about this add, it said that 107?? pedestrians were killed in a 30mph zone. (Apologies if numbers are wrong).
My immediate thought was how many of those were all the car drivers fault? (as the advert infers) How many were caused by people with no road sense (sadly often children) just running into the road without even looking?
Do young kids even get lessons on crossing roads anymore? I remember Darth Vader teaching us the Green Cross Code at school.
As has been said before, educate the pedestrians, we can only do so much.
And why weren't the back brakes working on that car??

sasman

84% of pedestrian fatalities didn't look. 77% of fatalities after dark are legally classified as drunks according to govmt research as reviewed on, The speed camera bible website PS speed is major factor in 4% of accidents apparently, check it out I may be wrong?

CRAFT

Us motorists are again an easy target for someone to blame. Not meaning to sound cold but most of the kids which have been killed will not have any clue about the green cross code cos they just don't promote pedestrian safety anymore. When I was at school it was drummed into us and I can only think of 2 people knocked down in the time from primary-secondry who were knocked down, but kids these days just don't care, they run out into the road after ***** etc without looking
not using ped. crossing although they're only
10ft away. Again it comes down to properly informing the kids and even adults that they have to take some responsibility for their own safety not just to say it's the motorists fault all the time.

Be good... C

chiark

Brilliant advert - you beat me to posting this. Really makes you think.

Whether it's the driver's fault or not is not an issue: kids can and do run into roads and all the training in the world won't stop 'em doing it. Can you live with killing/seriously injuring someone on your conscience, even if you can rationalise that it really wasn't your fault?

Superb advert. Simple and effective.

Would like to see cameras moved from silly places to outside schools/near play areas/near parks... but that won't happen, will it?

Nick.

kryten

I agree with Nick. The point of the advert is not to say that the accident is 'the driver's fault' but points out that if the driver had been doing the posted limit he would not have hit the child.

Pretty effective ad, I think. Just wish they'd follow it up with proper enforcement in areas that are not just designed to make £$.

I think that SPECS type cameras covering a mile around every school would probably make a big impact....

{edit}
meant to also say that this is why I would not be totally against some sort of GPS based speed notification system: I NEVER mean to do over 20/30 limits, but occasionally it happens - sods law says it will be one of those times when the worst happens. If the car was beeping at me, to tell me I was over the limit then I would slow down....

Hopefully, when Morpheous get the PC Interface for the Geodesy sorted out, I'll be able to set up something similar myself, just as a reminder.....

[This message has been edited by kryten (edited 28 June 2001).]

Jerome

In the UK we should introduce the same system they have in Germany. In Germany, you can be fined (£25, I think) for crossing the road anywhere other than a pedestrian crossing. Even at a crossing you have to wait for the green man to come on - even if there is no traffic as far as the eye can see.

I remember reading that children, even if given training, do not have road sense. You do not develop road sense until adulthood. It is therefore imperative to slow down when children are about. The elderly also need extra caution.

It does annoy me the way the government uses statistics. If a drunk walks under a bus, they class it as a drink related death on the roads. If a driver is doing 15mph and a kid runs under the wheels, they put it in with the statistics for people doing 40mph who run down an kid outside a school.

Speed doesn't kill, inappropriate speed kills. Full stop.

chiark

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by sasman:
<B>84% of pedestrian fatalities didn't look. [/quote]

How did they get this figure? They can't of asked the pedestrian??????

Statistics schmatistic

DavidBrown

Erm.. in that "advert" the front wheels of the car are locked up for the entire braking distance, while the rears just roll and roll as if not applying any braking force.

What about ABS ? Surely a car would pull up quicker with it ? Or not ?

GazP

I saw the advert last night and I thought it hit home rather well. I also agree with what other people have posted, as when I was at school we had the green cross code and we all knew it off by heart. Perhaps they should start educating the children a bit more, as well as moving the speed cameras to outside the schools. Oh sorry that wouldn't make any money would it.

Jerome, I totally agree with what you said about people not using crossings. That realy gets me annoyed when people stroll out in front of your car as they couldn't be bothered walking a few more yards to use the crossing

blubs

Agree with everything re: the importance of teaching road sense ALONGSIDE the need to drive within the limit and carefully in towns etc.

Ok, stupid question time;

Is it real footage or just a very clever mock up?

If real, does anyone know whether the child was seriously injured?

blubs

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

blubs, they used a dummy

Tiggs

blubs

is it real! are you serious?

Tiggs

IntegraR

Yeah well, lifes dangerous, and its yet another attempt to try and highlight speed as being the major factor in accidents, when its unatentive or stupid drivers and/or pedestrians that are more at fault.

A bus hitting that same child at 15MPh, would do as much damage as a car hitting him at 30MPh ("that same child" probably wouldnt look too good after this test though, so dont try this at home), and the same applies to mothers in their 20ft 4 by 4's, those things would totally squash a kid at about 10MPH, so should there be a slower limit on buses and big cars? because they would cause as much damage as a small car, at lower speed, and require a small air strip to stop in time.

Whenever Im in an area where a brat could run out in front of my car, I drive in a very aware manner, always look ahead, and keep my eyes peeled on the side of the road, and I honestly think I am less of a danger than an unattentive driver going at 20MPh.

MorayMackenzie

Integra,

I would assume that the reason a bus would do more damage than a car is the frontal area rather than sheer mass. A car hitting the kid would throw them up onto the bonnet, the bus would not throw them out of the way.

DavidBrown,

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the lack of braking on the rear axle... I suspect they disabled/dialled down the rear brakes in order to exagerate the stopping distance for demonstration purposes... not very convincing.

Rigging/hobbling the car so it hasn't a chance of stopping is just like lying with statistics... So that's okay then, as it's a Government sponsored public "information" broadcast.

They seem to have made an advert that demonstrates the need for regular maintenance & MOTs of vehicles and education of pedestrians as much as the need for drivers to choose appropriate speed for the conditions.

Moray

chiark

One thing this does show for definite is how many James Bond fans there are on this board

It may have been a cobbled car and not have ABS, but how many badly maintained cars with prats for drivers are there on the road? And how many watch Bond movies ?

Still think it was a valid and good message.

IntegraR

Yip, bus would have a squishy affect on said brat, wheras a car is less likely to put 8 tons on top of him.

What percentage of pedestrian deaths in a 30 zone are children I wonder?
I seem to find blokes are more of a threat to themselves when it come to crossing the road, as they tend to try and act hard, and take risks, though as I said, I always make sure I am aware of whats going on on the road side, and dont speed in 30 zones.

Edited to remove violent past.


[This message has been edited by IntegraR (edited 28 June 2001).]

GranTurismo

The stopping distance was a propper statistic, also if you lock up, the fronts always do more than the rears, I have never locked the rears in my MR2 OR Scooby.

I dont mind 20 limits, I often do well less than the speed limit in built up areas. I am happy for gatsos to be outside every school in the country.

The number of adults that cross the road in front of me is much more than Kids. Schools teach road safty and kids listen, but It seems that people think after that age of 16 it no longer applies. I often see panic stricken kids being dragged accross the road by their parents.

The Govt really needs to do a campaign focused on telling adults to look both ways and use crossing correctly, cetrainly keep up the message abut slowing down but dont just solve "half" the problem solve ALL OF IT. And dont even get me started on bloody mobile phone zombies that roam the streets typing bloody text messages.

ca

I've not seen the advert so can't comment about it.

As I see it, it all boils down to education. We need to educate people (especially kids and the elderly) on how to cross the road safely. We also need to educate drivers to select an appropriate speed for the conditions.

To do the latter, we have to get away from this 'one size fits all' category of speed limits, and this 'Speed Kills' nonsense.

C

RichS

Spot on ca.


There's loads of back streets round where I live where the appropriate speed is more like 5-10mph rather than 30.

Equally there are other 30 zones where 35-40 would <I>seem</I> to be more appropriate. Funnily enough, these are the ones that are littered with cameras...


Rich

MorayMackenzie

GranTourismo,

If you hit the brakes very hard in a non ABS equipped car you should be able to lock up all four wheels... my old Nova GTE left four black marks on the road when a DHL van decided to change lane directly into where my car was. Under braking the weight transfer forwards will make the rear wheels more likely to lock up as the rear axle goes light, which is why you tend to have smaller brake systems on the rear. It should be possible to lock all four wheels if you don't have ABS... even with drum brakes on the rear. My scooby can lock all four if you disable the ABS.

I'm not saying it's a good thing to lock all four, unless you have a DHL van giving you NO other option, just that it will happen if the brakes are pressed hard enough... especially if someone is panic braking ala the Public information film in question.

Moray

SDB

In terms of the front locking only..

this is in fact incredibly normal. There is very little in the way of rear brakes on older road cars such as the one in the advert.

There is also some SERIOUS pitch going on. From memory I reckon there was probably a fair bit of braking happening on the rear also.

Tyres like that locked up would not produce enough braking to create that amount of pitch IMHO.

Could be very wrong though of course.

Either way..
ABS would DEFINITELY stop quicker than that. And it is IMPOSSIBLE to state that an extra X miles per hour increases the stopping distance by Y metres.

Stopping distance is a function of tyre friction co-eficients, brake balance, wheel size, centre of grvity, etc, etc, etc, etc.. not just speed alone.

I think it is a shame to spoil something so effective and powerful with such a ridiculous piece of information like that.

Impressive advert though, and the great thing is..

It's aimed at people who speed in 30 zones, NOT people who speed in the wide open countryside.

That's good news in my view.

Cheers

Simon

kryten

However, it is true to say that if you are doing 35mph you will ALWAYS be further along the road when you stop than if you were doing 30mph (in the same car, on the same piece of road etc).

So they are making a valid point and just using the figures to illustrate it to the masses.

As far as ABS and stopping distance go, I've been told by a couple of instructors that in most cases, ABS will NOT reduce stopping distance but provides the ability to control the car while stopping. Anyone know of tests done with ABS/non-ABS braking. I had always assumed you'd stop quicker with ABS.....

SDB

Hi Kryten

That is VERY true about the "figures to present it to the masses" and in fairness, I guess it's valid... But most people would be able to see that there is no uniform figure for 5MPH of speed, so I think that information will do more harm than good in some cases as it will make most people say things like "well NOT in MY car it won't!!!!". But hey.

In terms of ABS...

I said that it would stop quicker than *that* which it would certainly do..

and in addition, modern 4 channel ABS will stop a car (as much as I hate to say it) quicker than any human being could in almost all circumstances.

The only circumstances where this would not be true would be on a pool table smooth surface with PERFECT brakes and tyres, and an INCREDIBLY talented driver using left-foot braking in a RWD car tuned to exibit lots of static rear brake bias.

It's a testiment to modern technology, and an indication that many skilled drivers are living in the past, or simply quoting something they hear 10 years ago (when it was still true).

Cheers

Simon

Tiggs

lol, what you are you boys on about!

do you watch the Dukes of Hazzord and argue if the General Lee could really make that jump over Boss Hogs car

its an advert- on the telly, like many adverts its trying to sell you an idea, thats all.

Tiggs

ps- buy an X-type and you wont really turn black and white and start singing Blue Hotel

MorayMackenzie

Simon,

How about stopping on loose surfaces... ABS doesn't tend to like snow/mud/wet manhole covers etc... wouldn't non ABS be an advantage on such surfaces?

Suprised you don't see more cars locking up the rears... my nova did it when travelling at a fair rate of knots... and it's on standard nova drums at the rear (standard vented discs up front)... and there was nothing wrong with the brake system. The four tyre tracks are still there, many weeks later... yikes.

Moray

foxyange

a very good post GT. I saw a woman with a toddler crossing a main road between a lorry and a car, she couldn't see what was coming for ****. Just stepped out, started crossing without looking, and as the car literally screeched to a halt and she actually <I>swung</I> her child out of the way she turns round and totally laid into the driver. Ridiculous. And yeah, there were 2 crossings within 30m either way. I was apalled since being a young parent myself (had my nippa when I was 18) I get loads of grief from people assuming I'm just cr*p because of my age. Well this woman was in her thirties. Just goes to show, age doesn't make a better parent. I can't understand how anyone would put their child at risk like that. Sure when it's just you, you reserve the right to be a fool, but when you're responsible for others there is no excuse. I yelled out of my window "It's not his fault!" to the obnoxious idiot woman to show moral support to the driver, because to be frank that's what I'd have appreciated right at that moment. I hope that guy was ok, because I've nearly hit a prat pedestrian and it REALLY shakes you up.

btw, I'm a speed limit gal too (good thing no limits in the Maccy D carpark eh gang!!!)