Stratts77

Hi guys I have bought a super low mileage and we'll maintained STI 2002 Bugeye.

After a long break from a quick Jap car I bought the STI as a weekend driver.

I have to say even in standard form the car feels pretty rapid.

I have decided I am going to keep the car long term and I want to tune it.

I was originally looking to buy a JDM BlobEye but this super low mileage mint 2002 STI Bugeye Prodrive came up at a good price so I grabbed it.


I spoke to Scooby Clinic and I was shocked that he said the UK STI Bugeye is as good as the JDM for tuning, in fact he said the 2002 Bugeye STI has forged pistons and the BlobEye had different casted ones I think as did the JDM cars. I had read this somewhere but was not sure it was true??

Anyway the guys at Scooby Clinic were very helpful.

I am going to save some pennies to tune the car but I am not sure on what level of tune is best for a road car?

Options are

330bhp - probably Exhaust, Fuel Pump, better Air filter and map.

360bhp - as above with Sports Cat and upgrade Turbo.

After this is where it gets complicated. I have seen some quick STI's with 2.1 Stroker Kits, is this the best way to go for big power.

I know the costs for the 330bhp and 360bhp but unsure of costs at 400bhp, 450bhp, or up to 550bhp.

I have read many claims that the STI 2.0 can safely run up to 400bhp. Is this true or would you suggest 330bhp or 360 BHP as a Max on stock motor?

Has anybody had STI Newage cars at various levels of tune from stock up to 500bhp,?

If so what the costs are for each level and which they found best as a fast road car.

I intend to spend money on handling and brakes also.

Any advice from people who have had Cars at all the levels of tune would be appreciated.

Gives me an idea on prices and if it's worth going big on power for the road or not. I have read people saying that sometimes they wish they stopped at the 330-360bhp mark for the road or they had lag issues with bigger turbos compared to lower tuned cars.

What's your thoughts and advice.

I think it's pretty quick standard so I am sure 350bhp will feel much quicker than that??

domino46

trouble with asking questions like that is tuning can be like buying trainers ,, everyones got there opinion on them and have the ones they like to use ,,, but that doesn't mean there spec is the only or correct way to tune a car ,, what makes the car drive really well for one person another person might hate the way it drive so it can be quite individual really

my advice would be to stick under 400-450 bhp ,,, the engine will take that without the need to be rebuilt and its a good number for a road car ,rebuilding can be anywhere from 4k-20k depending on spec required ,, dont go with the cheapest parts as you will only buy twice and make sure whoever maps it has a good rep and spends the correct amount of time doing it

iv had loads of scoobs in various spec from standard to mental and the best advice I can give you really is dont listen to people who have intentions of selling you something as they tend to tell you what you need to hear to get your money lol

Stratts77

Thanks for your advice.
Do you know anything about the 2002 STI Engine and weather it has forged pistons standard as I have been told?
So anything up to 400bhp should be ok for the standard engine if we'll maintained and looked after. ?

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

A Bug/Blobeye Subaru STi can easily take 400+bhp with the right mods as I was running my car with 450bhp for around 4 years until I went for bigger power, I would advise you not to chase numbers until you feel that it is personally needed,as you said your car goes alright for standard aprox 280bhp,400/450 bhp you need to take into account the supporting mods that you will require i.e uprated brake disc and pads which you will definitely need once you decide to upgrade your power the standard disc and pads are pants at even 350bhp,what i'm tying to say is don't rush just enjoy your new purchase get use to it and decide for yourself what you think is required for your own driving ability, Scooby Clinic are very good place to start for mods and general advice,they have been taking care of my car for many years now.SJ.

Stratts77

Thanks bud.
I can honestly say Scooby Clinic have been very helpful and willing to respond and chat. However, I have messaged Roger Clark several times and had no response at all, Scooby Clinic responded straight away and was more than willing to help or just chat. Impressed with their down to earth friendly response and attitude. Therefore, I will use them as they are willing to help.
I will never track the car, nor thrash it around all the time. I am older in my mid 40's so bit more level headed now but do want to tune the car. I and not wanting to skrimp on any parts and willing to pay for quality upgrades. I would rather have a very reliable 380bhp car with quality parts than a 450bhp car with cheap parts.
i fully intend to upgrade suspension and bushes etc and will at least upgrade discs and pads on the brembo set-up do you think this will be suffice?
I have only ever driven a BlobEye tuned by JGM at 330 BHP and it felt very quick at that.
The reason I ask you guys is that I have no experience with an STI passed 330bhp or with upgrade Turbo for example.

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

350/450bhp is a big jump up in power and can easily catch out a less experience driver but as I always say the driver is in control of the peddles so should always drive within their means...The Brembo callipers are very good at those power levels and with a set of uprated disc and good pads maybe some braided brake lines would be more then enough for a road car, my friend use to run the brembos at 500+ and they never faded and he use to do the occasional track days,i can highly recommend Performance Friction two piece disk and their Z-rated pads I ran that set up on my car and now my wife has them on her Subaru and her car is around 450 bhp now.SJ

Vxr2010

keep it simple , exhaust cat back , fuel pump , sports cat for the noise plus better spool up , and a remap , then you are keeping it reliable plus not silly mpg , i say sports cat for noise as 0 to 60 sports cat does not really make any difference even if it is a few more horses

Stratts77

Thanks buddy will take a look at them brakes 👍

I know when you think it's probably running stock at approx 280bhp so I think even 350bhp will feel very different.
I think if I am right the standard turbo is good up to approx 340bhp then an upgrade is needed. I am curious if anybody has gone from standard turbo to upgraded at approx 360- 380bhp and how it feels compared to standard.
I am curious if the upgrade Turbo has more lag than standard or it spools quicker?
A few people have written that a well sorted 350-380 BHP STI with good setup and tune can often outpace 450hp cars on the road with big turbos and more lag etc.
That's why I am interested to get feedback from guys who have run different levels of power on the road. 👍

Stratts77

Couple of pics last night after little drive😁

Vxr2010

The mrs fsti running around 300 to 310 bhp , my sti jdm bugeye running around 345bhp , she would leave me for dead off the line at a set of lights , due to lag and less torque ? ? , i heard a sports cat reduces the lag , but i prefer off the line go, it makes it easier on a roundabouts and junctions pulling out , also at higher legal speed the lack of lag on the fsti as it’s a smaller turbo was noticeable and still quicker than the bug , my friends spec d sti was still slower off the lights than the fsti , the fq400 on top gear a good example of lag v bhp

Stratts77

Hi bud thanks for your info. What is fsti?
So you are running standard turbo ?
What's your mods?
I will get a sports Cat rather than Decat due to hassle with MOT's.
That's why I want some info from those who have gone upgrade Turbo and beyond to get feedback on road driving.
Yours info is surprising !!👍👍

Vxr2010

Forester sti sg9 it’s the 2.5 version , the turbo is quite small it’s a vf41 , i personally (horses for courses ) don’t agree with a decat purely from the point of mot hassle , plus the legal side of not having a cat and some one stopping you on the road dvla or plod , a sports cat does give you more grunt but in a 0 to 60 it’s minimal , the mrs has a standard cat in her fsti mine a sports cat and in real world driving very little in it for quite a lot of Ł , but it does sound nice , my third lol fsti had already fitted a sports cat plus equal length headers it feel quicker but i don’t know if it actually is , but lacks the burble, it is possibly spooling up quicker , bang for buck , cat back for the noise you don’t want a too quite exhaust when you have a scooby , a fuel pump is a must on a 2 litre , and a remap , a remap really transforms a car

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

Nice car by the wayRight a lot of people talk about 350bhp with the standard VF range turbo its possible as my car was around 355bhp its all about the mapper and supporting mods...their has been a lot of turbo advancements over the years as my first hybrid in 2005 had 360 thrust bearing,ported compressor and exhaust housings,-31 actuator...now quality upgraded turbos use billet wheels,roller bearings and different profiles on the blades etc etc...so the spool up is practically the same as standard some even quicker but with a mid and top range that can go on and on, for around town 380bhp is nice and quick and more then you would really need but with modifying once you get use to the power you will want more and then it becomes a slippery slope into insanity Lol.SJ.

Stratts77

Ahh yes Forrester of course.
I do love the burble which is one reason I like the UK Bug.
I know the equal length headers are better but I think I would miss the burble.?
Yes I think with a Fuel pump, and better panel filter and I already have a cat back Blitz Nur Spec Exhaust I would get around 330bhp with a Map?
After this I think it's a upgrade Turbo and sports cat and I will see approx 360bhp. I wonder how they would compare on the road?

Stratts77

Thank you very much👍👍
Yes I have heard the standard turbo is good for around 350bhp max. I am curious if it's worth the money to buy a good quality upgrade Turbo to gain approx 30bhp. I am curious how they drive compared to each other on the street. I would like an upgrade Turbo with less lag if I could.
I have seen a STi on YouTube tuned by Scooby Clinic running a 2.1 stroker at 565bhp and it looks Savage but I would imagine your looking at big ŁŁ for that. Wonder how it would compare to a well sorted 360-380bhp STI on the road??
I am curious to what people's experiences are in the real world.
It doesn't feel slow standard so I would imagine at 330- 380bhp it will feel quick..
I don't want to risk engine issues and would rather stick around 360bhp if it means the engine will easily cope with it rather than push to 400bhp and always worry the engine will fail. To me I would rather spend money on good quality upgrades with any supporting upgrades to make it reliable. I know people run the 2.0 STI engine standard up to 450bhp but that seems a little risky to me, maybe I am wrong??
Do you know if the 2002 Bug has forged pistons like many suggest?

Vxr2010

I have changed all my panel filters to k and n but it does not add more power by having a ... performance air filter .. it’s just easier to clean and therefore help flow plus cuts down cost of buying a new one every service

Vxr2010

A friend put a bigger turbo on a fsti , engine gave up being a 2.5 , loads of lag lots of money plus terrible mpg , he said he regretted and should have left alone . i wanted a quick car with reasonable mpg as mine is a daily drive , mines 23 to 35 mpg depending on how it’s driven, warm weather mpg is better as it produces less boost in hot weather so tends to sit at 25 mpg , few cars get any where near it on the performance side , again it’s all horses for courses

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

Your model STI has forged pistons and the face lift models i.e..Blobeye have hypereutectic pistons which are still a stronger material then just cast...so you will be fine with the modifications that you are looking to do.SJ.

Stratts77

Thanks for clearing that up like I said I read a few write-ups which claimed the 2002 Bugs had forged Pistons but was not sure if to believe them. Then guy from Scooby Clinic said it has forged pistons standard and yes he did say facelifts had hypereutectic pistons. So are the engines in Bugs slightly stronger that Blobeyes? It should cope with 360 BHP fine then. 👍

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Given it is a road car
I would keep it simple. Basic upgrades to get it running 340-380hp ish, as you and others have listed.
Focus not on a turbo/set up that gives you power but a turbo/set up that is not laggy and that good spool up and throttle response.
Then spend the rest of your budget, that you could have spent on more power on -
An upgraded front brake set up, with no expense spared on the pads. Or if not a new set up very good pads at least. And some handling up grades with a good geo set up.

So if you look at it as a holistic package, with the money spend on power, brakes and handling. You will have a quicker car and more enjoyable car in the real world than many running more power. You will not be able to brag in the Pub about your gazzilion HP but in the real world you will have quick car.


I have been modifying and tuning these cars for 20 years and drive one of the quickest ones out there, see below. And the above is my advice to you.
All the best
Steve

Stratts77

Hi Steve.

Thanks for your reply and advice. I love your car by the way. Love the classics👍

I spoke with Kev from Scooby Clinic today and he said exactly the same as you!!

He said the engine in the Bugeye is one of the best Subaru made and it had Forged Pistons. ( Can you confirm this).

He said they will cope with 400bhp in standard form and they have run one at 420bhp for many years and it's doing fine.

However, he recommended approx 360bhp with a SC36 Billet quick spooling Turbo, Hayward & Scott performance Cat, Walbro Fuel Pump and a good Remap. He said it should get approx 360bhp and a quick spool without too much lag.

He said they have a well set up 360bhp car which outpaces their 500bhp Subaru on the road due to the quick spool of the setup. On that track it's different but on the road sometimes the well set up lower BHP cars are actually quicker in most situations. Basically what you said!!👍

Can I ask your opinion on the capability of the Bugeye 2.0 engine. Will it cope with 360bhp safely without risk,?

Also I know you don't require an upgrade intercooler or an oil cooler but would this make the engine cope better with the power and reduce risks. I do intend to fit an air/ oil separator. Can you suggest anything that will help the engine deal with the tuning even if it's not a must.

Any advise would be great.👍👍

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

All the information you need mate has already been giving to you, if you have spoken to Kev at SC he would of told you exactly what has already been said,the rest is up to you wether you work with your existing VF turbo or upgrade to a hybrid,360bhp on a well looked after STI engine is nothing to worry about as I said before my wife has my 2.0 litre from my blob in her classic and has been running at 450 for years now problem free with proper servicing....

Youll be alright buddy.SJ.

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Hi I agree with everything Kev mentioned to you. Yes that Bugeye engine is known to be strong one and easily good for 400hp if not more. And so 360 hp ish should be no problem.
From a mechanical point of view I would not add anything else.

However. Three points I would make that are worth considering

1. Perhaps get a toucan monitoring system. It keeps track of high amount of inputs oil temps, air temps ect and sets of an audible warning when they are passed. It needs to be set up with the map. Not sure what ECU are running. On second thoughts .... perhaps that is overkill. So perhaps a few gauges they key ones are oil pressure and oil temperature. End off. Closely followed by boost gauge if say you had a pod of three gauges. Oil temp always climbs before water temp, so forget water temp. And the key thing to look for is a flicker or jumping in the oil pressure needle...that tends to indicate a problem. And if you go for just one gauge I would choose oil temp above everything else. Summary, perhaps consider some basic monitoring - nothing over the top.

2. Oil. Often over looked. But an important part of the engine. Tried them all over the years. Fuchs and Royal Purple are ones I would not hesitate to use and have been very good for me. One however one stands out. Silverline Synionic. Put that in. If you look at the technical spec it way outperforms the big band performance oils in terms of heat management. I noticed a drop in oil temps on track as soon as I started using it. If you strip an engine that has been using, it is like new. It is a different formular to other oils and feels more slippery to the touch. It used in both Dmitrij´s Scoobyclinc gymkhana car http://www.dmitrij-sribnyj.com/index.html and mine. And those cars are pushed way way harder that the road cars that most people have on here. Lots of ´´advice´´ out there on oils you could go round in circles. You will find Silverline Synionic on facebook.

3.Most engine damage is done in those first few minutes. So dont let it idle cold. Get in it and drive it like an old lady until it is nice and warm and you have oil temp. Then kick the crap out of it and again let it cool down, drive slowly for a few minutes before shutting off.

I think adhering to the above would be better than adding another shiney bit.
Appologies if some of that is teaching you suck eggs
Hope this all helps. Let me know how you get on.
All the best
Steve

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

Good advice on the oils Steve,Kev told me about the Silverline Synionic a few years back and I fully agree that it's superb.Engine monitoring is also a very good shout having good gauges has saved my engine a good few times now.SJ.

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Yes most people won't use it because it is not a big brand....their loss lol Damien Bradley uses another oil out of the sates which apparently is also a cut above.

One could argue that perhaps once you start to get that fluctuation in oil pressure it might be too late. However an oil temp gauge is the one gauge that I have always found invaluable. I had every gauge under the sun in that track car, it was like a Christmas disco in there However the temp gauge was the most important one of the lot.

Stratts77

Thanks pal👍
Wow 450 BHP that is impressive.
That's reassuring for sure.
I have decided I will go for the SC36 and around 360hp which is enough for a quick road car and quick spool.
I am also going to spend some money on the brakes and handling as suggested by Kev and Steve.
This should make a good reliable quick motor. 👍👍

Stratts77

Thanks for your advice. That's helped a lot👍
Will go with the SC360 set up and spend some money on chassis and brakes to round it off.
Will definitely check out that oil Silverline Synionic can you recommend a particular grade for the STI?

Interesting when you say don't let it idle cold? I usually start the car and let it run and warm up a little before driving due to the fact it's only used on a weekend? I thought this was good practice, however, you say it's better to drive straight away until warm. That's interesting and I was not aware👍

Will be fitting a 3 pod gauge set as well and the info on needle fluctuation in oil pressure is good to know.

All good advise for me.

Thanks pal much appreciated 👍

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Scoobyclinc have Silverline Synionic at their place.
I will message you the details of the Silverline Synionic man and have a chat to him. He is not just an oil man but knows alot about Subarus so knows exactly what works in a Subaru application and he can send you some direct.

To add. Warm up. The best way is get in it turn it on let it find its feet for 10 seconds or so and then drive it slowly with real mechanical sympathy until it feels right and that oil temps looks good. That is the best way to do it.
Cheers
Steve

scooobydont

Some brilliant advise guys. I am not long here and have seen a few threads turn 'a bit funny' but, this has been no nonsense, sound advise from well established members.

Superb!

Stratts77

Thanks Steve.
That's great.
Appreciate your time and help. 👍👍