Sphyncter

Any-body got any interesting stories about having fun with motor-cyclists ? What do you rekkon to having fun (safely of course) with these guys ?

Do you rekkon a swift car could keep up with them on the track, or even on the twisties ?

BTW, I ride a motorcycle. I do not own a scooby, but have driven a terzo, and was WELL impressed.

I do, however, own one of God's own sports-cars. A capri 2.8i special.

BOB.T

My boss followed me on his R1, said he couldn't get near me through some twisties but when we got onto the straight, he pulled alongside, waved and disappeared into the night

Luke

I jt laugh at them when its raining!!!

NotoriousREV

In a straight line, most bikes will be faster, but on the twisties a car has a lot more grip. I've recently surprised a FireBlade owner and an Aprilia Mille R owner who suddenly realised they were going to have to work real hard to lose me.

To play safely, just give them a bit of room, no last gasp braking manouvres if your behind them, you could **** it up

Jolly Green Monster 2

Got both a bike and a Scooby (although the bike is off the road at the minute)...

On the bike you laugh when the traffic stops..

You can corner as quick on the bike as in the car but there is no room for error... so it is safer to ease off slightly on the bike around the twisties.. depends on rider and how mad they are.
Straight line like said already and watch a bike disappear...
Acceleration a UK Scooby is quicker than a 400cc Sports bike..
600cc sports bike is then quicker etc.. that is comparing standard machines of course... IMHO..

JGM

mutant_matt

Sphyncter,

Firstly, this has been done to death and anybody that has never ridden a bike cannot be convinced that bikes (when ridden properly (and that IS the key here)) are faster, in most conditions than Scoobs. I've got both so I've got a very good idea It certainly takes a hell of a lot more skill to ride a fast bike as quick as a Scoob, it's taken me about 10 years of riding plus advanced road and track training to get to a level where I can ride my bike through the twisties as fast as my Scoob can do it. The only caveat is that on tight hairpin bends taken at 30mph or less, you just can't commit yourself on a bike as you can in a Scoob but other than that, it's all in the bike's favour.

Bob, in the nicest possible way, your boss obviously can't ride that well

Luke, the rain doesn't make much difference if you ride properly, just a little more braking space needed, a few mph less corner speed and a smidge less accelleration out of slow twisty bends

Bear in mind that most riders seem to be able of extracting about 10-20% of the available performance of a modern sports bike, whereas I would say most performance car owners are capable of extracting about 70-80% of it's available performance. So most of the time, a well driven perf car is going to come upon a not brilliantly ridden sports bike and think that bikes are not much cop in corners and only have the advantage in a straight line....

Obviously all just IMHO

Matt

Neil Smalley

I let all motorbikes go. What's the point? They may not be good enough riders to keep up, and I might not be a good enough driver to compensate for any errors they or I make. If a rider came off and was killed, seriously paralysed due to something I did, or led them into i'd feel gutted for years afterwards. Therefore I don't risk it.

I always give bikes room, and pull to the left if I see one coming up behind me.

TBMeech

I've been riding for 12+ years, raced bikes for a few seasons too, I would say virtually any sportsbike with the right rider onboard, i.e no nancy boys pretending to be Foggy, would trounce a Scoob or pretty much any car on the roads, I'd rather be on a decent bike on the back lanes esp if they are twisty and bumpy.

The thing with bikes is the weight, they have so much less unsprung weight than a car, so invairably can accelerate thru the vital 50-100 times about 2-3 secs faster than a scoob, overtaking for example on a bike takes a lot less time and a lot less planning as it were.

Given the choice I would rather be on a bike 80% of the time.

Jon1T

Again got both - zx7r and WRX - and even a bus like the Kwakker p*sses all over the Scoob - not even a remote contest.

Round slow corners you will keep up if the road damp/tryes haven't warmed/greasy etc, but again on fast sweeping curves I don't think so - and I also think research has proven that R1s are ridden by rich nancy boys who can't get their knees down

Denzil_Dog

tbmeech !!
i think you are talking squat !!
in fact i believe you have never ridden a bike in your life
there is no way in diddley squat boo that a road bike on road tyres could get anywhere near a 4x4 sports car such as a scoob in the twisties !!
even if they where on dunlop 207rr/gp tyres they would have no chance

and you saying that it would be better if the roads where bumpy !!!
waht the **** is that about !!
any other riders on this forum will prob agree with me that hitting any bumbs going into a corner or midway round it, completely puts you off balance !!

do you ride these bikes in your sleep !!

by the way

heres my baby, a gsxr400
0-60 slow
top end slow !
but the best fun i have ever had on the road !


[Edited by Denzil_Dog - 6/14/2002 10:03:28 AM]

[Edited by Denzil_Dog - 6/14/2002 10:38:31 AM]

TBMeech

Denzil Dog,

If you fancy a challenge anytime I am more than willing to take you on.....

I stated it was my opinion, you obviously cannot ride a bike then, I aint going to get into an argument about what is faster and what isnt, I stated an Opinion on which I believe....

You think your car is faster from A-B than a bike you obviously live in dream world, yeah you're right I dont ride a bike I never have, having owned a RGV250P, CBR600FM, RC30 (U probably are such a philestine you dont even know what one is), GSXR750WX, Raced a RGV250M, GSXR600WW for 3 seasons I know f@ck all eh....

Again if you read my post I said a Well ridden bike with a good rider on it, obviously that does not account to every single rider out there, I am not proclaiming to be Foggy or Doohan or anything special, but having done thousands of track laps, 49s laps at Brands on a 600 aint bad on the indy circuit, I couldnt get near that time in my STI-V, but having said that I am certain I am a better rider than a driver anyway.

If you want to take this offline then mail me, I am sure that other people dont want to read this bitchin anyway

TBMeech

oh and another thing you do realise that 207RR GP *'s are now obsolete and replaced by 208 GP's? :P

NotoriousREV

OK, a quick physics lesson for you:

A motorcycle tyre has a contact patch smaller than the palm of your hand. A motorcycle has 2 tyres.

A car tyre has a contact patch bigger than the palm of your hand. A car has 4 tyres.

This means that cars have more grip available than motorcycles. More grip means that you can go faster round corners.

I don't know the figures, but let's assume that the Subaru can pull 1g round a corner. This figure is probably lower than reality, but it's a good figure to use. There is not a bike and rider that can pull 1g through a corner. Not Rossi on his Honda RC211V, not Troy Bayliss on his Ducati 998, not anyone on this board on whatever they own.

A properly ridden bike vs. a properly driven Subaru on a true twisty road (i.e. where a bike can't use it's faster acceleration) will end in victory for the car.

In the real world, whoever is the better (and/or less sane)driver/rider will win as you can't push to the limits of either vehicle on public roads unless you have no SR (I'll be impressed by those of you that know about SR ).

Alpine

Far from an expert on this.. Have ridden in my youth RGV250, cbr600, cb400... Self proclaimed nancy boy.. But I thought at circuit level a fast car could go round the track faster than a fast bike, purely because of grip in corners...

Anybody got any comparable circuit lap times?

Jolly Green Monster 2

NotoriousREV,

You have not included Weight in your theroy mate...

less weight, less contact required with the road.

You have not included tyre compound in your theroy, bike tyres are alot softer than cars, softer compound gives more grip.

You have not taken into about lean angle in your theroy mate..

I can lean my bike onto its side and the centre of gravity is lower and therefore more grip etc..

I would say I get similar G on the bike...

JGM

bros2

Denzil Dog

As 207GP RR tyres don't exist, there's a very good chance the car would get away. If, however, the rider was on the 207RR (a combination of the standard 207 carcass and the 207GP-stickiness tread compound) then the car would stand a fighting chance, but this would be more dependent upon quality of road surface than anything else.

Bumpy roads don't have to be a problem - have you ever seen the TT course? Average production bike speeds are routinely 120+mph now, with top speeds of 175-180 on the drops. OK, these are modified, but there's very little done to these bikes that you can't do for a standard road bike. It's just that the riders have ***** the size of watermelons.


Bros

neilbbb

i think it was ride magazine or MCN did an extensive test on car v bike.

Surprisingly (to me) the car wins every time (4 wheels = more grip, simple as that).

I have a zx6 and a scoob. The car is quicker round the twisty bits for me but the bike is much, much more fun

TBMeech

I would agree with Notorious's comments on contact patches, the car would be able to grip a lot more than a bike, but in the real world of bumps and ripples and the fact of a bikes faster acceleration I still belive that the bike would be victorious, dunno by how much tho!

Tracks are completely different, a car should be able to put a faster lap time down to the sheer physics as explained before, I am sure I have looked at say Touring Car lap times and British Superbike Lap times round say Brands and the cars are about 4-5 Seconds quicker

Denzil_Dog

u know what i mean though dude !!
i know a bit about bikes !!
i dont claim to be god "UNLIKE SOME"
but if any other riders here, claim to get more grip and stability on bumby corners than erm.........
**** y'all.........all y'all!!
hahahaahahaha hahahaha hahahahah erm wake up... hahahah ahahaaha hahahahh aaha bumpy corners......... hahahahah ahahahahaha ahahahahahah whatever.......... hahahahh hahahaahahaha hahahaha hahahahah erm wake up... hahahah ahahaaha hahahahh aaha bumpy corners......... hahahahah ahahahahaha ahahahahahah whatever.......... hahahahh hahahaahahaha hahahaha hahahahah erm wake up... hahahah ahahaaha hahahahh aaha bumpy corners......... hahahahah ahahahahaha ahahahahahah whatever.......... hahahahh hahahaahahaha hahahaha hahahahah erm wake up... hahahah ahahaaha hahahahh aaha bumpy corners......... hahahahah ahahahahaha ahahahahahah whatever.......... hahahahh hahahaahahaha hahahaha hahahahah erm wake up... hahahah ahahaaha hahahahh aaha bumpy corners......... hahahahah ahahahahaha ahahahahahah whatever.......... hahahahh hahahaahahaha hahahaha hahahahah erm wake up... hahahah ahahaaha hahahahh aaha bumpy corners......... hahahahah ahahahahaha ahahahahahah whatever.......... hahahahh

Alpine

neilbbb... that may have been the article I saw.. anyways I always felt like I was doing 200mph on my bike when I went round any corner and I think this aids the impression you are travelling faster than a car...

NeilT

I went on an advance driving course by a Thames valley police instructor some months back and he said that under full braking a bike can pull a max of only .6g - a car .9g (if I remember rightly), therefore in theory a car should be able to beat a bike.

However, having ridden a bike for 10 years and now drive a MY00, my opinion is that a bike is far quicker on any road, mainly due to acceleration out of corners.

my two and a half pennieth

Neil



[Edited by NeilT - 6/14/2002 11:44:28 AM]

jjones

TRAFFIC :P

gsxr1000 standard - out of the box -

0-150mph 10 secs :O

(oh 400's are not as slow as scoobs :P zxr400 standing 1/4 = 12.9 secs )

Jon1T

Denzil Dog - post some pick of your sliders - bet you file em down

If you can't keep up with a standard scoob in a Gixer 400 - one of the most flickable bikes -then what are you doing?

Driving the Scoob round the bends in the dry - you might have more contact, but more unsrung weight, more roll, slower to accelerate out of bends etc.

Having said that if it's wet and greasy then.....
- I know where I'd put my money!

mutant_matt

Notorious,I believe you are talking about Survival Reactions? (Keith Code as in?)

You don't need absence of SR's to go quickly on the roads, but you do need to learn to control them and overide them to ride fast, safe and smoothly, as that very clever Mr Code says in his riding bible, Twist of the wrist (fnaahh fnahh ) Obviously, some loon with zero SR's will be very quick (and very unsafe) until he crashes - and when he does, it's likely to be a big one!!!!

BTW, as usual, this debate is turning into another slanging match with some poorly thought out arguments, and testosterone taking over, which is a shame because it's a debate I enjoy (when dicussed in a friendly and reasonable manor )

I'm not sure I've got the scientific knowledge to be able to prove/explain why bikes are faster, A-B, I'm just speaking from experience (of which, I have a fair amount on the subject ).

Matt

Denzil_Dog

file em down ???? why you litle

i am still waiting to hear from anyone who feels that bumby corners are to a bikes advantage !! it is utter bullspew !!

on a bumpy corner if one wheel leaves the ground this then leaves you with.... erm.... one wheel on the ground !!!

dont mean to be sarcastic but you would have to be pretty thick if you think that this sounds like a good situation to end up in !!
(mid turn leaning at 45 degrees on one wheel!!!!! what the ****)

whearas a car still 3 wheels stuck to the black stuff !!

maybe on a track with a nice sticky surface !!! but on bumpy roads, maybe you are one of those ******** who spends most of his time on one wheel anyway !!(for christ sakes dave, it sounds like JER has left gixxer.com, and came over here!) !!! who knows !!

[Edited by Denzil_Dog - 6/14/2002 11:33:38 AM]

NotoriousREV

Fun size Mars bar to Mutant_Matt

I didn't say anything about going fast, I was talking about pushing the edge of your vehicles limits, you simply cannot ride or drive with the same committment that you could on a track, unless you're insane.

Using the TT as an example: if you took the TT circut and built a race track that was an exact replica, but with track quality tarmac, no road furniture, good run off areas, etc. you would see much higher speeds than you presently see.

NotoriousREV

LOL, certainly does.

I forgot to say: JGM, you can't pull the same g's on your bike. People have done the tests, bikes don't pull the g's in a corner that a car does. These are facts, not opinion.

TRIGGER

I'd love to see a bike pull 6g braking - think you mean 0.6 g

But the point is the same - underbraking the car has a distinct advantage. But under acceleration the bike has it at all times. Bikes are ridden completely differently and so it's very hard to compare. Rider ability is also a far more important cariable on bikes too.

In theory a bike would be quicker over an average route although the car would catch up a certain times.

But in reality there are so many problems that bikers need to avoid (potholes, painted lines, bumps etc) it is just nuts to try and push it to the same level a car can be pushed. Both vehicles at 80 pct - the bike will win - but how often can the bike get to 80 pct ? Hardly ever.

I've just started riding and to be honest it has changed my whole view of bikers. I used to get quite close but now realise what a ******** I have been. On a bike it is so hard to see close cars behind you and it would take so little for it to hurt alot. I would suggest all drivers should do a Direct Access course and learn a bit more about bikes - even if they dont want to get one. It would make the roads a safer place for us all.

Sheepsplitter

I did an interesting experiement a few weeks back.
For those of you that know the Pirbright to Deepcut road, between the railway bridge and the top 'lip' of the road.
I did the road in the car and noted maximum speeds on each corner, tyres were nice new Toyos.
I then repeated the same road on the bike (after warming the tyres a bit) and noted the corner speeds.

I was suprised to find that the bike was 10-15mph faster on most corners. Now this doesn't take into consideration the fact that the speedo on the car is about 10% out (fast) and the bike is pretty accurate, so really it was even more of a difference.

I've also done the road in my Westfield Seight and it was only marginally quicker than the Scooby.

Car is:WRX STI4 (348BHP), tyres Toyo PROX ES
Bike is:GSXR1000 (160BHP), tyres Bridgestone B010s

Granted most corners on the bike were at pretty scary lean angles, as my knee sliders will testify.

Now some of you will say I must be a crap driver or something, but I'm no slug.

I did the test thinking the car would win (easily) and was a bit shocked with the result. I didn't bother trying to do timed runs, as the corner speed would be the only place the Scooby stood a chance of winning. Max speed on the straights was 91 in the car and 115 on the bike.

BTW: Not trying to say bikes are quicker than cars here, just my observations.

mutant_matt

Denzil,

Bumpy roads slow bikes down, just not as much as you'd think. If you're riding round bends properly then you've got the throttle open and bumps will unsettle the bike but unless they are really serious, you just ride through it.

I'll give you an example, last night, out for a ride, going round a 50mpg tight left hander and on the exit, right where I wanted my wheels was a very badly resurfaced, rutted road repair. I was on the gas fairly hard (chasing the fast receeding VP ) when I hit it. Both wheels lost traction and slid about a foot sideways, but what made it really interesting is that the front wheel did it first. I managed to overcome the SR to close the throttle and kept it open, just stopped opening it for a mo, and the bike sorted itself out and I carried on. It slowed my down momentarily and was not something I would wish to happen, but it's all part of riding fast on the road, with as much safety margin as you can allow. If I had been in the Scoob, it would have moved about a bit too, but would have barely slowed me down....

Matt