whip

NotoriousRev - you wouldn't happen to be referring to Survival Reactions would ya mate... A bikers greatest enemy.

Not sure on how many G's a bike pulls through a corner, from the Evo tests a new age scoob pulls around 0.8G though.

I have a VTR1000 and a scoob. A well driven scooby would get away from me on any backroad as (a) I'm only an average rider and (b) I tend to make mistakes (car or bike) if I get involved in a race with anyone so I just avoid the situation altogether. It ain't worth ending up in a wheelchair (or worse) if you ask me.

To anyone that has raced a bike and whupped it's ***, I would remind you of the saying '90% Rider, 10% Bike'. At a trackday at Donington a couple of years ago, I remember Ron Haslam turning up on an RS125 and lapping all the road riders in the fast group, in the wet. It was comical, you had guys on R1s and Blades who are fast by road standards, getting their *** kicked by old Ron.

Food for thought, the production 600's (hardly any modifications from a standard road bike) are lapping the TT at 118mph AVERAGE this year. How good a driver would you need to average 118mph round there in a scoob?

Whip

Denzil_Dog

trigger you are so wrong !!
listen to what tbmeech has to say !the potholes, painted lines, bumps etc should only make you faster !!

there seems to be some weird logic here that i fail to understand :O

whip

****! While I was typing that out mutant_matt beat me to it!

Damn you, your deft typing skills AND your fun size mars bar!

Whip

TRIGGER

Sorry Denzil - of course, I'd also much rather be on a fast bike on bumpy badly repaired roads.....bikes dont get affected by the raod surface at all !!

TBMeech

Denzil,

I'm sorry if I have offended you in anyway, sorry for having my own opinion, please if you want to mail me offline please do so, obviously you cannot comprehend what I am saying....

In the real world where there is traffic, on a back lane, I feel a WELL RIDDEN motorbike would be faster than a car because if you had a nicely set up bike, you would NOT be on one wheel everywhere, they do have things called suspension, the bike would be able to pass most traffic with ease (funnily enough you do get traffic on back roads), due to its unsprung weight and superior acceleration, where the car would definetly have and advantage would be as you say over painted lines and especially over potholes and the slower corners, I never doubted that for a second, hence I said I like to ride on twisty back roads that are bumpy its not a generalistation that everybody else would do the same.

neilbbb

Bikes are not affrected by road surface, what a load of b*ll*cks.

potholes, drain covers, white lines, gravel, sound familiar?

NotoriousREV

Sheepsplitter, interesting stuff! I might do a similar thing

Quick question though. You admitted the bike was at scary lean angles, so you were pushing pretty hard. Can you honestly say you were pushing as hard on your car runs? Were you on he edge of traction in either vehicle?

From your experiment, we can conclude that you on a bike would beat you in a car, I'm sure that me in a car would be me on a bike, but now the question is: would you on a bike beat me in a car and would me on a bike beat you in a car, and if so, what would that prove?

I'm going for a lie down...

mutant_matt

I LLLUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRVVVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEE twisty turny country lanes - they are my Bike's playground....

Straight roads are for Biking wusses (except for when you want to see what ***mpg feels like ( )

Matt

Jon1T

.....now I'm confused!

Bikes would be faster than cars in the right conditions - ie dry warm road, warm tyres, you're feeling 'in the groove' - we've all had it - where you get all the corners bang on, the bike seems to flow and you've got a sh*t eating grin from ear to ear.

Equally, we've been sliding all over the place, it aint coming together, you hit some oily stuff an the back end goes and your **** puckers up - your trye pressures are out - it all depends.

But I can confidently say that in a straight like......whooopphmm
bye bye scoob! Anyone remember a test that Performance Bikes did a few years ago - Blackbird/r1 etc vs Porker turbo etc etc - the bikes walked it up to about 100

Denzil_Dog

this is just one of those gray ares where everyone has their own opinion so who is right and who is wrong !
differant drivers and riders are better/worse in differant condition

so lets all just get along

TBMeech

Yep totally agree with you there m8

Didn't want to cause an argument, no hard feelings eh!

Sheepsplitter

NotoriousREV:
I was pushing the car MUCH harder than the bike.
i.e the bike was not sliding, the car did.
When I said 'scary lean' angles, I mean for an observer, I was loving it :-)
I had no intention of pushing the bike as hard as the car, I don't mind slides on the track, but on the road there is no runoff, so I prefer to play within the limits.
The GSXR1000 is so good in the corners (well it is now I got shot of the standard steering damper and fitted a nice new one).

I've raced karts and cars competively and so I'm pretty quick, but
I don't know if you are a better driver than me or not. One thing I am pretty sure is you would not be able to get any/much more traction, so even if you drive like Schooey the difference would be marginal(a few 10ths of a second or something like that).

NotoriousREV

and then of course after 100 aerodynamics and horsepower come into effect and the cars start to make up ground.

Another variable to throw in the mix: how many of you feel more able to speed on your bike and get away with it? I regularly hit speeds of 140 (not saying whether miles or km's and this is on a private track, obviously) on the bike, but wouldn't dream of doing that in a car on the same roads, not because the car isn't capable, but beause I'm not that insane.

NotoriousREV

Sheepsplitter, turn your testosterone down a notch, I wasn't saying whether you or I were faster than each other, I was simply pointing out the fact that your experiment is only applicable to you. The discussion is whether or not a bike is or is not faster a good handling, fast car, not whether Driver A is a better driver than Driver B. Chill, bro.

Bakerman

I will put in my 2 pence worth .......

Recently had an R1 (until it was nicked) and now a VFR800 VTEC, also had a MY99 turbo and a mate who has a P1. If a good rider is aboard any decent motorcycle he will be as fast as any Impreza driven by an average driver (in the dry anyway). I do not claim to be the fastest by 2 or 4 wheels but my corner speeds in both the turbo and the bikes are very similar - wet roads no contest, car wins (less margin for error on a bike). Bumpy roads, the car probably wins but a well set up bike (and therefore probably not a cutting edge sports bike which is probably too hard for bumpy road use) will be closer than you think.
The real issue is that in a car it is far more easy to get out of difficulty than on a bike (cars will understeer/oversteer which is easy to feel & correct on 4 wheels, on 2 wheels it is not) - if you hit something in a car the chances are you will get out and be able to buy another, on a bike it is different.
The problem with sports bikes (any supersport bike anyway) is that very very few people are able to commit themselves to riding it fast on the road (any muppet can do 150mph in a straight line) and probably shouldn't be doing that anyway.

If you want to ride/drive real fast DO NOT do it on the road - do a track day. As somebody once said, "if you think you are a fast driver/rider, go racing and find out how slow you really are"!

Anyway, got rid of the MY99 as going fast was too easy and no longer fun (in the true sense of the word rather than just going fast everywhere) as the car was so capable and always found another traffic queue to get stuck in.

Now do 400 miles/week on a bike and the best thing I ever did.

Believe me, on normal road riding I am just as fast on the VFR as I was on the R1 - all the R1 did was shake its head everywhere !

Go on then - burn me !

Sheepsplitter

NotoriousREV:
Neither was I, sorry if it came across wrong :-(
I was trying to suggest the car was pretty close to it's limits and the bike was a bit off them.
No offence intended.

mutant_matt

Come on guys, try and play nicely

On the speeding point, I do silly speeds on the bike usually every time I got out (where it is safe to do so obviously) and can do this because you can get up there and back so quickly, you can a) do it where a Scoob wouldn't have the chance and b) have a much smaller chance of being nicked for it.....

Matt

TBMeech

Dual carriageway tho in the scoob, I've been 'bike chasing' lol you can give some guys a good run for the money, I know Gixxerman is very guilty of hanging round Box Hill and bike chasing lol

juan

sheepsplitter,

you reckon Schuie could only take a few tenths off you in the same car? I think you might be Britains best F1 driver in that case. Why not tryout?

Regards
:-)

Sheepsplitter

juan:
I'd pull over and let him win, like he's used to ;-)

mutant_matt

LOL

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

well put it this way, i dont ride a bike but ive out paced bikes in corners, bikes have left me on the straights and for a car that costs 20k and gets to 100 in 15 secs that aint bad but whats that new jap monster bike that costs 20k and is suppose to hit 100mph in 3 secs !!!
hmmmmm sorry guys, like its been said, most bikers cant ride but the ones that can will leave you for dead (and the ones that cant normally end up dead ) dont play with bikes too much, we know we will out pace 9/10 of em in corners

Tony

NotoriousREV

OK, I was gonna let this one go, but I have nothing better to do (I am at work, after all )

You say that I could not get any or much more traction. You're right, you have a set amount of grip at all times in your particular vehicle. You then use this grip to do various things. Under acceleration you might use 100% of your grip to move forward, under braking you may use 100% to stop and while cornering you may use 100% laterally. When you start to combine these manouvres, plus throw in different surfaces that offer more or less grip and it starts to get interesting.

I'm pretty sure the Herr Schumacher (sp?) could make better use of the available grip than I could, due to using things like weight transfer etc.

Ahh, I love a good internet debate, LOL

andykid

As a one time bike owner and now MY97 scooby owner, i have to say that on average twisty roads in uk a scooby will beat most bikes easily. Round corners the scooby has sooooo much more grip and speed it is easy to get away. With the weather as it is, on the bike you are always careful of puddles, leaves, drains, manhole covers etc, all of which will quite happily cause major problems on the bike! Obviously in straight line the bikes will p*ss on the scooby, but motorways are no fun!
Don`t get me wrong having the bike was great (when it was dry), there is nothing quite like getting your knee down, but bikes are too limited in use and practicality for my liking (hence, why i sold it)
One last point, has anyone seen the Jeremy Clarkson video with the standard Porsche 911 against an R1? This just basically sums it up. The bike is quicker accelerating and in a straight line but the car`s better brakes and more grip allow it to win, Case rests.

kryten

Well I spent 18 months with my RB5WR and found (slightly the wrong side!) of its limits at Dono. Been driving for 14 years in various cars.

I've had my Thundercat 600 for two months - so obviously I'm nowhere near as good a rider as I am a driver.

I see two sides of this.

I've been driving the B4000 between Swindon and Newbury for 12 years and I know it bloody well. In my 309Gti it was fun and a challenge. In the RB5 it was very, very fast, but no challenge at all really (my licence preservation always cut in before the car's limits) - I still drove it every day though and mostly enjoyed it.

I've ridden the same road about 5 times on the bike. Its very bumpy, has difficult surfaces and wind exposure is a nasty shock in places. Its more difficult and certainly doesn't seem as quick.

BUT

My journey to work is always quicker on the bike. Even without any traffic jams to really tilt the result.

I'm a novice rider on a road I know poses problems on the bike, but I can overtake things far easier. The small queues of cars (say four or five) that you meet at junctions can be cleared quicker too.

Maybe at 3am in the pouring rain when the slurry lorries have been out, the Scoob would be quicker, but real world day to day stuff and it isn't!

Denzil_Dog

309 gti !!
ahhhhh them where the days !
had one when i was about 20, never driven a frontwheel drive car that had lift-off oversteer as predictable as that, it was fappin great !!

go into corner....
ease off...
hey there go's the **** end....
woohoooooo....
bit more gas
it straightens up again

i want it back !! those childish memories !

Alpine

Decided to try and get some facts... ie best riders against best drivers same place...

At Oulton park this year the fastest touring car lapped in 1.27.6 whereas the fastest superbike (Hislop, in case any of you riders think you're better) managed fastest lap of the day at 1.32.8..

As far as I can find out the conditions were both dry days and I'm pretty sure they use the same circuit. (prepared to be shot down on this one).

Game over to us in tin boxes...

Diesel

Mr Meech said - >>49sec laps at Brands on a 600 aint bad on the indy circuit, I couldnt get near that time in my STI-V..<<

That seems to help sum it up a little - at the end of the day after much coaching by a pukka racer I got it down from over the minute to 53". That was said to be very quick (the knackered new Toyos & now wobbly disks testify). The racer himself had done a 50" best in his much better power to weight and grip Caterham. The only straight on the Indy course is short and I was well over the ton on this - the bike would be quicker of course.

My experience (as a rider too) is bikes are quicker than cars in most dry circumstances.

D

NotoriousREV

And Oulton is more like a road circuit than somewhere like Donnington, tight, twisty, bumpy in places.

kryten

But you cannot compare 'car vs bike' like that.

Both have a set of rules that must be obeyed by all the participants, but they are totally different.

Its like saying the F1 cars went round quicker than the Reliant Robin Challenge - just more obvious why when both have 4 wheels!