Hawk STI
02 February 2017, 10:03 AM
#1
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Hawk STI
I am considering getting back into a subaru after having a blob wrx briefly at the end of 2015.
It really is a toss up between evo and sti for me , ive driven evos and had a wrx (scary brakes).However ive never stepped foot in a proper sti ?
After watching this and nearly bidding at the last second as i started remember about the 2.5s weaknesses.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/subaru-Imp...vip=true&rt=nc
Any owners like to share there experiences , i keep bloody seeing hawkeyes on the commute home ...
It really is a toss up between evo and sti for me , ive driven evos and had a wrx (scary brakes).However ive never stepped foot in a proper sti ?
After watching this and nearly bidding at the last second as i started remember about the 2.5s weaknesses.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/subaru-Imp...vip=true&rt=nc
Any owners like to share there experiences , i keep bloody seeing hawkeyes on the commute home ...
02 February 2017, 10:53 AM
#2
Good job you didn't buy that one IMO. The engine would have needed another rebuild at some point.
The 2.5 is very mixed with failures. Some last, some fail. Normally fail more if mapped badly or not cared for correctly. They suffer ringland (piston) failures and head gasket failures. Both are very common. The head gaskets were not torqued correctly at the factory and the heads can lift under boost causing eventual head gasket failure. If the car has been remapped and boost levels raised then this will happen more easily.
When a head gasket starts to go, the oil gets contaminated by small particles which in turn do damage to all of the internal bearings in the engine. At this point if the head gaskets are just done without a full rebuild then the engine will fail again with bearing failure not long after. As a rule of thumb when head gaskets go, totally rebuild the engine, fit forged pistons, possibly a few other bits, certainly Cosworth or RCM head gaskets, certainly better head bolts and your done. This is the only sure fire way of ensuring it will last again after the rebuild.
Full forged rebuild will cost you £3.5-£5k.
I have had 2.5 Subaru's for 10 years now and loved every minute of driving them. None of mine have been forged and I've had no failures of any kind because I treat my cars well and massively over-service them. They are fantastic.
Enjoy. Good luck hunting!
The 2.5 is very mixed with failures. Some last, some fail. Normally fail more if mapped badly or not cared for correctly. They suffer ringland (piston) failures and head gasket failures. Both are very common. The head gaskets were not torqued correctly at the factory and the heads can lift under boost causing eventual head gasket failure. If the car has been remapped and boost levels raised then this will happen more easily.
When a head gasket starts to go, the oil gets contaminated by small particles which in turn do damage to all of the internal bearings in the engine. At this point if the head gaskets are just done without a full rebuild then the engine will fail again with bearing failure not long after. As a rule of thumb when head gaskets go, totally rebuild the engine, fit forged pistons, possibly a few other bits, certainly Cosworth or RCM head gaskets, certainly better head bolts and your done. This is the only sure fire way of ensuring it will last again after the rebuild.
Full forged rebuild will cost you £3.5-£5k.
I have had 2.5 Subaru's for 10 years now and loved every minute of driving them. None of mine have been forged and I've had no failures of any kind because I treat my cars well and massively over-service them. They are fantastic.
Enjoy. Good luck hunting!
Last edited by BrownPantsRacing; 02 February 2017 at 10:55 AM.
02 February 2017, 01:09 PM
#3
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I have a Spec D Sti. it had about 35,000miles on it when I bought it and the tell tale signs of head gasket failure were clear.... A silly "The Racing Line" sticker on the back....
It had been mapped and a new fuel pump fitted. The Fuel never read less than half.. On lifting the pump I found they'd fitted a classic one and bent the wire for the float right round. Muppets! A new pump and I've re-bent hte wire several times trying to get it right. Close but still run out of bottle with 15 litres still in.
The First hint is a sweet smell under the front as the coolant is blown out of the overflow bottle onto the front left, or battery cover sides.
I spent the prerequisite figure on a forged lump at Alan Jeffery's place. Never missed a beat since with 56,000 miles on it now.
Basically, as above for bits, a forged set of decent pistons is essential, decent rods is nice and a quality rebuild helps. What is essential is a decent head gasket make and fit studs. Head bolts are stretch type, I don't really think it's down to Subaru not torquing them up properly, more that boosting beyond 1.2BAR just produces too much force and they stretch loosening the gasket's grip.
The Standard car is capable of 1.5BAR falling back to 1.0BAR at peak revs. The gasket and head bolts are not.
Standard, they are fast enough. To change the head bolts requires the engine to come out. As weakness goes, it's a hell of a lot cheaper to fix than blowing the gearbox on an Evo......
Of course, if you can find one, the JDM 2.0 Hawk is the best there is! Wish I could have found one when they were about at sensible money.....
It had been mapped and a new fuel pump fitted. The Fuel never read less than half.. On lifting the pump I found they'd fitted a classic one and bent the wire for the float right round. Muppets! A new pump and I've re-bent hte wire several times trying to get it right. Close but still run out of bottle with 15 litres still in.
The First hint is a sweet smell under the front as the coolant is blown out of the overflow bottle onto the front left, or battery cover sides.
I spent the prerequisite figure on a forged lump at Alan Jeffery's place. Never missed a beat since with 56,000 miles on it now.
Basically, as above for bits, a forged set of decent pistons is essential, decent rods is nice and a quality rebuild helps. What is essential is a decent head gasket make and fit studs. Head bolts are stretch type, I don't really think it's down to Subaru not torquing them up properly, more that boosting beyond 1.2BAR just produces too much force and they stretch loosening the gasket's grip.
The Standard car is capable of 1.5BAR falling back to 1.0BAR at peak revs. The gasket and head bolts are not.
Standard, they are fast enough. To change the head bolts requires the engine to come out. As weakness goes, it's a hell of a lot cheaper to fix than blowing the gearbox on an Evo......
Of course, if you can find one, the JDM 2.0 Hawk is the best there is! Wish I could have found one when they were about at sensible money.....
02 February 2017, 01:09 PM
#4
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I am considering getting back into a subaru after having a blob wrx briefly at the end of 2015.
It really is a toss up between evo and sti for me , ive driven evos and had a wrx (scary brakes).However ive never stepped foot in a proper sti ?
After watching this and nearly bidding at the last second as i started remember about the 2.5s weaknesses.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/subaru-Imp...vip=true&rt=nc
Any owners like to share there experiences , i keep bloody seeing hawkeyes on the commute home ...
It really is a toss up between evo and sti for me , ive driven evos and had a wrx (scary brakes).However ive never stepped foot in a proper sti ?
After watching this and nearly bidding at the last second as i started remember about the 2.5s weaknesses.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/subaru-Imp...vip=true&rt=nc
Any owners like to share there experiences , i keep bloody seeing hawkeyes on the commute home ...
02 February 2017, 01:14 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
A lot of Spec D's are in very rough condition. They seem to be unloved generally.
Mine has Whiteline Anti-Lift, rear ARB, full decent coilover package and strut braces front and aft. Interior is nice and I've just fitted a Heated Screen and very tasty sound system too. Fully soundproofed all over helps a lot!!!
It's frankly quick enough too. Runs standard engine bay with standard boost.
I just don't use the poor thing much anymore....
Mine has Whiteline Anti-Lift, rear ARB, full decent coilover package and strut braces front and aft. Interior is nice and I've just fitted a Heated Screen and very tasty sound system too. Fully soundproofed all over helps a lot!!!
It's frankly quick enough too. Runs standard engine bay with standard boost.
I just don't use the poor thing much anymore....
02 February 2017, 01:36 PM
#7
I have a Spec D Sti. it had about 35,000miles on it when I bought it and the tell tale signs of head gasket failure were clear.... A silly "The Racing Line" sticker on the back....
It had been mapped and a new fuel pump fitted. The Fuel never read less than half.. On lifting the pump I found they'd fitted a classic one and bent the wire for the float right round. Muppets! A new pump and I've re-bent hte wire several times trying to get it right. Close but still run out of bottle with 15 litres still in.
The First hint is a sweet smell under the front as the coolant is blown out of the overflow bottle onto the front left, or battery cover sides.
I spent the prerequisite figure on a forged lump at Alan Jeffery's place. Never missed a beat since with 56,000 miles on it now.
Basically, as above for bits, a forged set of decent pistons is essential, decent rods is nice and a quality rebuild helps. What is essential is a decent head gasket make and fit studs. Head bolts are stretch type, I don't really think it's down to Subaru not torquing them up properly, more that boosting beyond 1.2BAR just produces too much force and they stretch loosening the gasket's grip.
The Standard car is capable of 1.5BAR falling back to 1.0BAR at peak revs. The gasket and head bolts are not.
Standard, they are fast enough. To change the head bolts requires the engine to come out. As weakness goes, it's a hell of a lot cheaper to fix than blowing the gearbox on an Evo......
Of course, if you can find one, the JDM 2.0 Hawk is the best there is! Wish I could have found one when they were about at sensible money.....
It had been mapped and a new fuel pump fitted. The Fuel never read less than half.. On lifting the pump I found they'd fitted a classic one and bent the wire for the float right round. Muppets! A new pump and I've re-bent hte wire several times trying to get it right. Close but still run out of bottle with 15 litres still in.
The First hint is a sweet smell under the front as the coolant is blown out of the overflow bottle onto the front left, or battery cover sides.
I spent the prerequisite figure on a forged lump at Alan Jeffery's place. Never missed a beat since with 56,000 miles on it now.
Basically, as above for bits, a forged set of decent pistons is essential, decent rods is nice and a quality rebuild helps. What is essential is a decent head gasket make and fit studs. Head bolts are stretch type, I don't really think it's down to Subaru not torquing them up properly, more that boosting beyond 1.2BAR just produces too much force and they stretch loosening the gasket's grip.
The Standard car is capable of 1.5BAR falling back to 1.0BAR at peak revs. The gasket and head bolts are not.
Standard, they are fast enough. To change the head bolts requires the engine to come out. As weakness goes, it's a hell of a lot cheaper to fix than blowing the gearbox on an Evo......
Of course, if you can find one, the JDM 2.0 Hawk is the best there is! Wish I could have found one when they were about at sensible money.....
The poor head torqueing from factory has been documented already as a possible failure point on many occasions. You should not run a standard 2.5 engine above 1.35 bar of boost. Even at this level the heads can lift if you're unlucky and promote head gasket failure.
Uprated rods are not required unless your aiming over 500bhp as the standard ones are very good. But if it were me, I'd fit them too whilst it was apart just in case.
Remember that once forged, it will be noisier and will require oil changes much more frequently than the 10k / 1yr suggested by Subaru on standard engines.
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02 February 2017, 08:39 PM
#9
As said above some have problems some dont,
My 2006 2.5 STI PPP has covered 92k and still on original head gaskets and pistons.
But on the other hand I have replaced head gaskets on 2.5 imprezas with 40,000 miles on the clock but I also know of a 2.5 that didn't blow until about 170k miles.
My 2006 2.5 STI PPP has covered 92k and still on original head gaskets and pistons.
But on the other hand I have replaced head gaskets on 2.5 imprezas with 40,000 miles on the clock but I also know of a 2.5 that didn't blow until about 170k miles.
02 February 2017, 10:43 PM
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To be fair nearly every car has some sort of reputation of weak point. When I was first alerted to 2.5 weaknesses I actually started to notice how many 2.5s were on the road, driven by normal (non enthusiast) people.
Advice I was given was be mindful of forums. Of course they are a great source of info (like many of the guys on here) but also many people only join to ask about a particular problem or concern.
I would keep an open mind when looking at a 2l or 2.5l and make your own mind up based on its history and condition.
not meaning to undermine anyone (most more knowledgable than me on here). Just there are also a lot of positive experiences of owners with the standard 2.5L engines.
Advice I was given was be mindful of forums. Of course they are a great source of info (like many of the guys on here) but also many people only join to ask about a particular problem or concern.
I would keep an open mind when looking at a 2l or 2.5l and make your own mind up based on its history and condition.
not meaning to undermine anyone (most more knowledgable than me on here). Just there are also a lot of positive experiences of owners with the standard 2.5L engines.
03 February 2017, 09:32 AM
#12
Good advice mikey. Spot on.
Don't get too hung up on the issues with any car. Be aware of them but try not to let it spoil your ownership of the car or stop you buying it. Every mark I've owned has had it's well documented failures and it has never stopped me buying and enjoying. To date I've not had a single engine fail on me.
Some that I've owned and loved:
Nissan Pulsar GTiR = weak bottom end prone to failure
380bhp RX7 = Rotary engine failure issues
RX8 = Rotary engine failure issues
VR6 = Timing chain failure issues
2006 modified 2.5 WRX = Ringland & head gasket failures
2004 Forester STI = Standard 2.5 failures.
Plus more.
Don't get too hung up on the issues with any car. Be aware of them but try not to let it spoil your ownership of the car or stop you buying it. Every mark I've owned has had it's well documented failures and it has never stopped me buying and enjoying. To date I've not had a single engine fail on me.
Some that I've owned and loved:
Nissan Pulsar GTiR = weak bottom end prone to failure
380bhp RX7 = Rotary engine failure issues
RX8 = Rotary engine failure issues
VR6 = Timing chain failure issues
2006 modified 2.5 WRX = Ringland & head gasket failures
2004 Forester STI = Standard 2.5 failures.
Plus more.
03 February 2017, 10:25 AM
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Yip I can echo the above. I also have an S2000 which have great reliability with regard to engine. The other less known fact is the suspension geo bolts almost all seize in the UK due to salt. Min cost to remedy is £1K but more often £2k. Factor in new springs and shocks then that's a 3k bill. Nearly all uk owners will have the issue and when you google s2000 buying guides it's the most common point raised.
Just an example like he above of a weak point in another car.
All cars have issues. Make your decision based on condition and history. You might get it wrong, but good chance you'll get it right.
Just an example like he above of a weak point in another car.
All cars have issues. Make your decision based on condition and history. You might get it wrong, but good chance you'll get it right.
03 February 2017, 10:31 AM
#14
One of my colleagues has an S2000 and he's had issues with noisy timing chain now almost since he bought it 10 years ago. I've honestly lost count how many times his car has been in to have this fixed, including uprated parts from the US which still didn't 100% solve it. He's spent thousands trying to make it run quietly. lol
As you say, every single car on the market has it's issues.
Just be aware of them, buy a car you want, put some money mentally aside for the known issues and enjoy the car while you have it. If you don't have to spend the money fixing the faults then consider yourself up on the deal!
As you say, every single car on the market has it's issues.
Just be aware of them, buy a car you want, put some money mentally aside for the known issues and enjoy the car while you have it. If you don't have to spend the money fixing the faults then consider yourself up on the deal!
03 February 2017, 11:48 AM
#15
Good advice mikey. Spot on.
Don't get too hung up on the issues with any car. Be aware of them but try not to let it spoil your ownership of the car or stop you buying it. Every mark I've owned has had it's well documented failures and it has never stopped me buying and enjoying. To date I've not had a single engine fail on me.
Some that I've owned and loved:
Nissan Pulsar GTiR = weak bottom end prone to failure
380bhp RX7 = Rotary engine failure issues
RX8 = Rotary engine failure issues
VR6 = Timing chain failure issues
2006 modified 2.5 WRX = Ringland & head gasket failures
2004 Forester STI = Standard 2.5 failures.
Plus more.
Don't get too hung up on the issues with any car. Be aware of them but try not to let it spoil your ownership of the car or stop you buying it. Every mark I've owned has had it's well documented failures and it has never stopped me buying and enjoying. To date I've not had a single engine fail on me.
Some that I've owned and loved:
Nissan Pulsar GTiR = weak bottom end prone to failure
380bhp RX7 = Rotary engine failure issues
RX8 = Rotary engine failure issues
VR6 = Timing chain failure issues
2006 modified 2.5 WRX = Ringland & head gasket failures
2004 Forester STI = Standard 2.5 failures.
Plus more.
The aero underneath and skirts etc have some of the poorest quality bolts, brackets and nuts I have ever seen. One wiff of a UK road (even UK cars) and they melt. Most owners get them done ASAP with an alloy dress up kit.
