Our 8 pot monster caliper project
23 July 2010, 01:08 PM
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Our 8 pot monster caliper project
Hello ALL!
Well this has been on the cards for a while now.
Purpose :
To design and manufacture a quality 2 piece caliper which will use either stainless or titanium piston with Alloy mounts in conjunction with Performance friction floating disks and pads to suit imprezas 93-2009 models sti and wrx
Design:
Large and lightweight on latest cnc milling technology.
Material :
Aluminium grade 7075 heat and stress treated caliper Hard anodised.
Titanium / Stainess 303 pistons.
We have been designing the caliper for a while now, and it was yesterday we made a start on the prototypes which will go on my car. When my car is up and running and we get a chance to fit them we will alter any parts that need to be altered ,.. then look at sending them to the US rally team who we currenlty do work for . If they can prove them for us then we will look at doing a production run on them.
I have already spoken the performance friction Uk and hopefully we will look at getting a direct dealership with them to keep the costs down.
Enough of the boring stuff, this is how we got on yesterday
Our cam design :
Our first block 90 x 90 x 265mm
Facing off :
Then, My battery on the camera went and by the time it was charged this happened
Just waiting for a new tool now to finished this side off
The back is pretty much a mirror image, then we have to work on the insides
Well this has been on the cards for a while now.
Purpose :
To design and manufacture a quality 2 piece caliper which will use either stainless or titanium piston with Alloy mounts in conjunction with Performance friction floating disks and pads to suit imprezas 93-2009 models sti and wrx
Design:
Large and lightweight on latest cnc milling technology.
Material :
Aluminium grade 7075 heat and stress treated caliper Hard anodised.
Titanium / Stainess 303 pistons.
We have been designing the caliper for a while now, and it was yesterday we made a start on the prototypes which will go on my car. When my car is up and running and we get a chance to fit them we will alter any parts that need to be altered ,.. then look at sending them to the US rally team who we currenlty do work for . If they can prove them for us then we will look at doing a production run on them.
I have already spoken the performance friction Uk and hopefully we will look at getting a direct dealership with them to keep the costs down.
Enough of the boring stuff, this is how we got on yesterday
Our cam design :
Our first block 90 x 90 x 265mm
Facing off :
Then, My battery on the camera went and by the time it was charged this happened
Just waiting for a new tool now to finished this side off
The back is pretty much a mirror image, then we have to work on the insides
Last edited by CDF Racing; 23 July 2010 at 01:12 PM.
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23 July 2010, 08:31 PM
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i know that the k sport 8 pots with 330mm discs when used with carbonne loraine rc6 pads on track, the calipers warped with the heat, they seem to be ok on the 356mm option.
cdf ones look good to me, do you need a test dummy chris to put them to the test
andy h
cdf ones look good to me, do you need a test dummy chris to put them to the test
andy h
23 July 2010, 09:12 PM
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Paul, can you explain please...
These will of course be prototypes which once on the car we will look how to make them better, it would be nice to know what you mean though
Andy, we will need many of test dummies mate
As I said, this is only the first stages..... I have no idea on how long the whole process will take,
But that is why I posted up on here, so you guys make me get my finger out
My new cutter arrived today so I finished this side off
sorry iphone quality
23 July 2010, 09:28 PM
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We will make them to suit 330 and 356mm disks jon ,
At this stage I am not sure on the normal anodising as it will wear in time,... we are after something that will last
At this stage I am not sure on the normal anodising as it will wear in time,... we are after something that will last
25 July 2010, 01:01 PM
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Looking good mate, will be looking for some big stoppers for my project in the future if yours are ready mate will have to give them a look, how will they compare price wise to market competitors, k sport for instance mate.
25 July 2010, 06:29 PM
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Are these going to have 8 pads in? Why are you putting the small pistons in the middle? This is basic stuff when it comes to brake callipers, the pistons are sized differently to give different loads along the pad due to the self energising nature of the pads on the disc. On a 6 pot caliper you will see that the smallest pistons are at the leading edge of the pad. Check the AP caliper drawing here: http://www.apracing.com/drawings/cp5060.pdf
You seem to positioned the bolts that clamp the two halves of the caliper too far away from the piston/pad centreline, as a result the caliper will want to open up like a hinge and give you uneven pad wear and a **** poor pedal. You will notice that the centreline of the pistons of the AP caliper lies between the main clamp bolts, yours appear to be outside.
You notice the AP caliper has a recess to take the bridge pipe, it supports the pipe to help stop the pipe fatiguing through vibration.
The AP caliper also has the drilling done in such a way as the minimal air is trapped when you try to bleed them. Little things like that might not be obvious straight away.
What seals are you going to use? Will they work proper with the piston and give the right action? Brake caliper seals are shaped to make sure the piston doesn't retract too much when you release the pedal to prevent it having built in knock-off. But on the other hand some calipers for specific jobs use seals to actively pull the pads clear off the discs (stock car oval, done to reduce high speed drag).
If you intend to sell to hardcore subaru track cars, then make provision for AKB springs to be fitted into the caliper, a recess in the piston or caliper is all that's required.
If you look at a good caliper design, you will see that it wraps around the disc quite a lot to try and give good stiffness, also the callipers will be quite wide to give good beam stiffness, and there will be ribs at the ends and to the bridge bolts, to give the best stiffness. What works on a road car may be terrible on a race car when you get rid of the factory servo setup, so if you have aspirations to supply your calipers to a few club race cars make sure they are up to the job.
You seem to positioned the bolts that clamp the two halves of the caliper too far away from the piston/pad centreline, as a result the caliper will want to open up like a hinge and give you uneven pad wear and a **** poor pedal. You will notice that the centreline of the pistons of the AP caliper lies between the main clamp bolts, yours appear to be outside.
You notice the AP caliper has a recess to take the bridge pipe, it supports the pipe to help stop the pipe fatiguing through vibration.
The AP caliper also has the drilling done in such a way as the minimal air is trapped when you try to bleed them. Little things like that might not be obvious straight away.
What seals are you going to use? Will they work proper with the piston and give the right action? Brake caliper seals are shaped to make sure the piston doesn't retract too much when you release the pedal to prevent it having built in knock-off. But on the other hand some calipers for specific jobs use seals to actively pull the pads clear off the discs (stock car oval, done to reduce high speed drag).
If you intend to sell to hardcore subaru track cars, then make provision for AKB springs to be fitted into the caliper, a recess in the piston or caliper is all that's required.
If you look at a good caliper design, you will see that it wraps around the disc quite a lot to try and give good stiffness, also the callipers will be quite wide to give good beam stiffness, and there will be ribs at the ends and to the bridge bolts, to give the best stiffness. What works on a road car may be terrible on a race car when you get rid of the factory servo setup, so if you have aspirations to supply your calipers to a few club race cars make sure they are up to the job.
25 July 2010, 06:29 PM
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Are these going to have 8 pads in? Why are you putting the small pistons in the middle? This is basic stuff when it comes to brake callipers, the pistons are sized differently to give different loads along the pad due to the self energising nature of the pads on the disc. On a 6 pot caliper you will see that the smallest pistons are at the leading edge of the pad. Check the AP caliper drawing here: http://www.apracing.com/drawings/cp5060.pdf
You seem to positioned the bolts that clamp the two halves of the caliper too far away from the piston/pad centreline, as a result the caliper will want to open up like a hinge and give you uneven pad wear and a **** poor pedal. You will notice that the centreline of the pistons of the AP caliper lies between the main clamp bolts, yours appear to be outside.
You notice the AP caliper has a recess to take the bridge pipe, it supports the pipe to help stop the pipe fatiguing through vibration.
The AP caliper also has the drilling done in such a way as the minimal air is trapped when you try to bleed them. Little things like that might not be obvious straight away.
What seals are you going to use? Will they work proper with the piston and give the right action? Brake caliper seals are shaped to make sure the piston doesn't retract too much when you release the pedal to prevent it having built in knock-off. But on the other hand some calipers for specific jobs use seals to actively pull the pads clear off the discs (stock car oval, done to reduce high speed drag).
If you intend to sell to hardcore subaru track cars, then make provision for AKB springs to be fitted into the caliper, a recess in the piston or caliper is all that's required.
If you look at a good caliper design, you will see that it wraps around the disc quite a lot to try and give good stiffness, also the callipers will be quite wide to give good beam stiffness, and there will be ribs at the ends and to the bridge bolts, to give the best stiffness. What works on a road car may be terrible on a race car when you get rid of the factory servo setup, so if you have aspirations to supply your calipers to a few club race cars make sure they are up to the job.
You seem to positioned the bolts that clamp the two halves of the caliper too far away from the piston/pad centreline, as a result the caliper will want to open up like a hinge and give you uneven pad wear and a **** poor pedal. You will notice that the centreline of the pistons of the AP caliper lies between the main clamp bolts, yours appear to be outside.
You notice the AP caliper has a recess to take the bridge pipe, it supports the pipe to help stop the pipe fatiguing through vibration.
The AP caliper also has the drilling done in such a way as the minimal air is trapped when you try to bleed them. Little things like that might not be obvious straight away.
What seals are you going to use? Will they work proper with the piston and give the right action? Brake caliper seals are shaped to make sure the piston doesn't retract too much when you release the pedal to prevent it having built in knock-off. But on the other hand some calipers for specific jobs use seals to actively pull the pads clear off the discs (stock car oval, done to reduce high speed drag).
If you intend to sell to hardcore subaru track cars, then make provision for AKB springs to be fitted into the caliper, a recess in the piston or caliper is all that's required.
If you look at a good caliper design, you will see that it wraps around the disc quite a lot to try and give good stiffness, also the callipers will be quite wide to give good beam stiffness, and there will be ribs at the ends and to the bridge bolts, to give the best stiffness. What works on a road car may be terrible on a race car when you get rid of the factory servo setup, so if you have aspirations to supply your calipers to a few club race cars make sure they are up to the job.
25 July 2010, 07:15 PM
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Are these going to have 8 pads in? Why are you putting the small pistons in the middle? This is basic stuff when it comes to brake callipers, the pistons are sized differently to give different loads along the pad due to the self energising nature of the pads on the disc. On a 6 pot caliper you will see that the smallest pistons are at the leading edge of the pad. Check the AP caliper drawing here: http://www.apracing.com/drawings/cp5060.pdf
You seem to positioned the bolts that clamp the two halves of the caliper too far away from the piston/pad centreline, as a result the caliper will want to open up like a hinge and give you uneven pad wear and a **** poor pedal. You will notice that the centreline of the pistons of the AP caliper lies between the main clamp bolts, yours appear to be outside.
You notice the AP caliper has a recess to take the bridge pipe, it supports the pipe to help stop the pipe fatiguing through vibration.
The AP caliper also has the drilling done in such a way as the minimal air is trapped when you try to bleed them. Little things like that might not be obvious straight away.
What seals are you going to use? Will they work proper with the piston and give the right action? Brake caliper seals are shaped to make sure the piston doesn't retract too much when you release the pedal to prevent it having built in knock-off. But on the other hand some calipers for specific jobs use seals to actively pull the pads clear off the discs (stock car oval, done to reduce high speed drag).
If you intend to sell to hardcore subaru track cars, then make provision for AKB springs to be fitted into the caliper, a recess in the piston or caliper is all that's required.
If you look at a good caliper design, you will see that it wraps around the disc quite a lot to try and give good stiffness, also the callipers will be quite wide to give good beam stiffness, and there will be ribs at the ends and to the bridge bolts, to give the best stiffness. What works on a road car may be terrible on a race car when you get rid of the factory servo setup, so if you have aspirations to supply your calipers to a few club race cars make sure they are up to the job.
You seem to positioned the bolts that clamp the two halves of the caliper too far away from the piston/pad centreline, as a result the caliper will want to open up like a hinge and give you uneven pad wear and a **** poor pedal. You will notice that the centreline of the pistons of the AP caliper lies between the main clamp bolts, yours appear to be outside.
You notice the AP caliper has a recess to take the bridge pipe, it supports the pipe to help stop the pipe fatiguing through vibration.
The AP caliper also has the drilling done in such a way as the minimal air is trapped when you try to bleed them. Little things like that might not be obvious straight away.
What seals are you going to use? Will they work proper with the piston and give the right action? Brake caliper seals are shaped to make sure the piston doesn't retract too much when you release the pedal to prevent it having built in knock-off. But on the other hand some calipers for specific jobs use seals to actively pull the pads clear off the discs (stock car oval, done to reduce high speed drag).
If you intend to sell to hardcore subaru track cars, then make provision for AKB springs to be fitted into the caliper, a recess in the piston or caliper is all that's required.
If you look at a good caliper design, you will see that it wraps around the disc quite a lot to try and give good stiffness, also the callipers will be quite wide to give good beam stiffness, and there will be ribs at the ends and to the bridge bolts, to give the best stiffness. What works on a road car may be terrible on a race car when you get rid of the factory servo setup, so if you have aspirations to supply your calipers to a few club race cars make sure they are up to the job.
Cheers for your advice Paul, That is why I have posted this up on a couple of forums, so people can see what we are doing as we go and point us in the right way.
I now have info on AP and stoptech calipers which I will have a read up on a bit.
Now I understand what you mean by flexing, someone else meationed this on the p1 forum . I will look at the distance between the holes when I get back to work, - I havent heard of any issues with them flexing but I maybe wrong.
Just this second had a quick read through someone elses comments on the p1 forum about there Ap's flexing .... so yes this is something definatly to look at .
At the moment we are doing the easy bit.. still deciding on the pad and piston design, as you are aware there are a few ways to do the pistons, some use dust seals, some don't ... some have the seals on the piston and some have them on the inside of the caliper... all for different reasons.
All we are looking to do at the moment is get a proven set on my car, I wouldnt expect anything less than 6 months before we can offer them for sale
All working progress at the mo
Cheers chris