HRT

Further to my thread ‘Time to get Serious’ under my username WRX450 from 2007, I am starting a new thread that continues on from there due to a technical problem with username WRX450 that does not allow me to post and no one form the Admin Team replies to my request to fix.

Current spec

1997 WRX Club Spec. My daily car which I bought in Australia in 1999 and imported into Cyprus when moved here in 2001. In 2005 decided to turn into track car with bolt in cage and it snowballed from there.

Spec at end 2008

2.2 ltr stroker kit supplied by Tony Rigoli
8.5 compression
2.5ltr 79 mm crankshaft
93mm JE pistons
TRP conrods and bearings
Standard open deck block, only O-ringed,
3mm copper head gaskets
14mm head studs, block heli coiled and tapped
standard teflon coated valves
Custom street cams from Rigoli
STi valve springs
Heads and inlet manifols, ported , polished and match ported
Garrett GT35 turbo with .63 housing
MY99 fuel rails and injectors modified to 750-800cc
equal length braided fuel lines
Bosch motorsport fuel pump, surge tank and Fuelab pressure regulator
PWR aluminium radiator
Turbonetics Godzilla blow off valve
Oil catch can and oil cooler
Micks Metalcraft front mount intercooler
HKS headers (wrapped)
3 inch buddy club lightweight exhaust
45mm Turbosmart external wastegate with screamer pipe
Electromotive Tec 3 engine management and ignition system
Magnecor leads and NGK Iridium plugs
Turbosmart E-Boost boost controller
RCMS ultra lightweight pulley kit and manifold spacers

Mapped by Paul from Zen Performance
440bhp at the wheels at 1.8bar and about 380ftlbs torque
395 bhp atw at 1.6bar and 330ft lbs torque.

About 530/450, but cannot be sure.

Exedy twin plate clutch and flywheel
PPG straight cut dog gearset
short shift kit
4.44 RA ratios
RCMS uprated engine and gearbox mounts
Quaife ATB front diff
KAAZ 1.5Way front and rear LSD
R180 rear

KAD 330mm 6 piston brake kit and braided lines
Pagid RS421 pads
18 inch Simmons OM wheels with 225/35Pirelli P Zero when it was a street car
17 inch OZ Prodrive wheels with 215/45 Toyo R888 for race
Subaru 2 pot brakes

Interior fully stripped
Sparco Evo seat, 4 point harness
Weld in T45 Custom Cage
Plumbed in fire extinguisher system

Suspension
The Whiteline bits
Camber bolts
ALK
Front/rear rollbars and links
Diff lock kit/subframe bush kit
Steering rack bushes
Fully adjustable lateral track control arms in the rear
Front lower cross brace and top strut brace
AST 3 way adjustable suspension.

Aluminium bonnet.


Tried two hillclimbs last year but with various problems such as AST suspension oil canister splitting and letting go of its oil while racing and then terrible problems with the PPG gear selection.

Start of 2009 decided to change the workshop as came to the conclusion that they did not have the necessary experience to prepare as a race car as opposed to a street car. The workshop I selected www.antonis-stavros.com
is one of my competitors in the hillclimbs. Always finishes in the top 3 and fights for the championship, has built several 9 sec cars and have tried their hand at rallying and in their second year are leading the Cyprus championship.

Great bunch of guys who spend the time explaining things to me in simple terms.

The first thing that needed fixing was the gear selection. Upon inspection the gearbox was in a mess. The guy I used to rebuild it had no clue and it was no wonder I could not select gears .Everything was loose and it appeared that at the next hillclimb I would most likely have broken it.

Various little bits were tidied up, but as always at the last minute there are problems. The centre diff started making some weird noises and it was decided to replace. It was from an RA, but it had a hard life. As it was the night before the first hillclimb, the only alternative was to stick my standard WRX diff in. Not sure what the differences were between the two. Then broke a rear driveshaft when testing. By this time it was 11pm and I had not driven the car since August 2008.

Also added a last minute adjustable wing as the rear end moved around a bit at speed when it was out testing.

The first hillclimb proved very difficult but fun, with the car acting like a high powered FWD, It moved from one side of the road to the other and no amount of steering input could control it. The dyno curve jumps about 150hp in the space of 100rpm so not sure if this is a factor. Still improved 16 seconds between run one and three on a course where the front runners were in the high 50s and most of the field was closer to 70s.

The PPG gearset was sweet. Definitely recommend with the interlock kit from Zen.

Car was checked thoroughly afterwards to make sure that there was nothing broken in the front end. In the end prognosis was a new centre diff was required. After speaking with Paul from Zen, I ordered centre and rear KAAZ LSD. The rear diff was much bigger and required the R180 rear end. Fitted this as well and now have the benefit of the bigger brakes and driveshafts at the rear. I was considering the rear Brembos or a AP kit plus some aftermarket driveshafts but have now got this sorted in one go.

Have now run the diffs in and the car has gone back in for a few bits and pieces such as oil leak from the oil cooler lines and an alignment to make sure it is spot on.

Still wandering across the road under power so it possibly was not the centre diff, although today we are going to take it out and loosen it to see if it makes any difference. I was told for tarmac the centre diff should be looser and the front and rear tighter and the opposite for gravel. I think the centre diff comes from Kaaz at 6.5-8k.g and I was advised that should loosen to about 5kg and that it may take a few goes to get it right. Anyone know about this?? It might as well be Chinese to me

I am now suspecting that the front Quaife diff may be to blame. Has anyone fitted one of these to their car? It torques steers from one side of the road to the other and I am thinking that this diff is suddenly transferring the power from side to side either as a fault or this is the way it acts. Although being an ATB diff I thought that this is exactly what this diff is supposed to stop. Was this the diff that they had in the MK 1 Focus RS which some complained that it torque steered a fair bit?


Hillclimb on Sunday so no days to really test it. Straight into the action and see what it does. Today it is 36 degrees so not looking forward to a day in the heat in race suit.

Unable to post pictures as under my new username cannot post attachments.

ZEN Performance

Nice to hear it's back in action Paul.

The ATB will cause some torque steer, but overall, i think it's the best compromise for the front on tarmac. And your current centre and rear diffs should give you a good setup. I would recommend double checking your alignment, and start looking at that suspension setup in general. Going softer will enhance grip as a rule, provided it's still keeping the wheels under control. Look at tyre pressures too, and try and check the effects of small changes.

Things you can upgrade at the front to start making a difference would be the bushes in the front lower arms to help keep the wheels pointing in a consistent direction. I would start with trying 1mm of Toe in front and rear, and see if you can get the car corner weighted somewhere to at least make sure the spring heights are not miles out.

Basically a lot of small changes adds up to a big difference.

Paul

HRT

Thanks Paul, will be looking at alignment today and ask for the toe in as I am not sure what it is running. Corner weighting may be a problem but will see what I can find.

I took it for a quick test on a straight road last night. I do think that the torque steer is the Quaife; when full boost hits it torque steers for a second or two while it sorts itself out and then is oaky, and then on each gearchange it does it again although to a lesser degree as the speed and gears rise.

On the Toyos R888 I ran 26ps fr and 24 rear. I am thinking about going a bit less at front, possibly 24psi and same at rear. It is 35 degrees odd out so the tarmac is probably at least 50-60, so given the heat I think lower pressures may be suitable.

On the AST 3 ways I have the following:

Base of strut adjuster front 12 clicks from fully in; rear 10 clicks from fully in

Small top adjuster front 4 from fully in; rear 12 from fully in
Large top adjsuter front 2 from fully in; rear 2 from fully in.

I am not sure if this is a good combination or I have it horribly wrong. I must admit I have forgotten which adjuster does what

ZEN Performance

Higher pressures.

You want to aim for about 35 hot on the front, 32 hot on the rear as a starting point, you could afford to go as high as 38 hot on the front at the end of a hill climb. I think that along would be a good step in the right direction.

You need to find out what adjuster is what, and look at softening the front a little I would say.

HRT

I used to run higher pressure as you state, but was told that the Toyo R888 and these type of tyres grip better with softer pressures. I think I also read it on one of the Toyo documents I downloaded.

I will try starting cold pressures at 32fr and 30rear and see what they end up with at the end and work around your suggestions.

I will ring Powerstation and found out what each adjuster is.

ZEN Performance

The tyre temps should really dictate the pressures. But really the stopwatch is the final measure.

HRT

Right you are!

Will have to buy a tyre temp reader for the next hillclimb in three weeks and start to look at this as well.

Grant74

iTrader: (10)

I do a local hill climb here in Jersey, and on advaice from one of the rally boys, dropped tyre pressures right down to about 25psi, but running road tyres, this just didnt work.

The tyre sidewalls arent stiff enough on road tyres (I run in prodcution class), so went back up to 32psi.

Dont know if this is useful or not

HRT

All useful info. The R888's are much stiffer sidewall, but I think possibly I am also working with too low pressures. Will start in the low 30psi range cold and see what happens after the run with hit temps.

Spoke with AST in Holland and they suggested just starting all adjusters in the middle, rather than doing what I did and starting cold with a particular style of setting.

The three adjusters consist of

base of strut - main rebound
Smalladjuster - low speed compression
large adjuster - high speed

Also reccomended going softer first rather than going hard from these settings.

HRT

Race day has come and gone. Race was won by Antonis Stavrou who is one of the owners at the workshop I use with their 700bhp EVO. Two timed runs and they set a competitive time on their first run and broke a driveshaft off the line on their second run. They held off several fast finishers to win by a second.

The day started at 4:50 am, with a drive up to the mountains in the Subaru. Nice 35 degree day even in the mountains. Tarmac temps after 10am were 80 degrees, so very sticky and chance to break driveshaft’s.

I was told not to expect anything special out of the car, as the test the night before by Antonis revealed that it kept on spinning the front wheels even in third and fourth! There is a definite problem with the Quaife diff and in hindsight this was evident on the dyno a year ago, as I had just fitted the Quaife and it certainly performed strangely on the dyno compared to the last dyno runs the year before.

I turned the boost down to 1.3 bar to see if I could quell the front wheelspin. Set tyre pressures to 32psi front and 30 psi rear, set all suspension settings to the middle and away we went.

The track was a typical Cypriot mountain road, wall one side and drop on the other although I seem to recall that most did have protective barrier. About 3klms in length with a mixture of second gear corners some more open third gear winding stuff, three first gear hairpins and some nice sections where they looked fast and open corners that suddenly tightened an could catch you out.

I was car 16 from 40, with the runs starting from number 40. I had never seen the course before, so my first run was exploratory to see the available grip and to see how the car felt once the power kicked in and started wheel spinning.

The cars handling was fine with no suspension concerns, grip levels were okay through the faster corners although dust and stones always gave it a nice little slide. Turn in was great. The only problem was when the power came on the screamer pipe would open up to a huge roar and exactly the same moment at 4000 rpm, the front wheels would spin and the car would torque steer madly across the road. In third and once in fourth gear it was scary and I was lucky not to spit it off the mountain. The car was definitely fast just not controllable.

So ended up with the slowest time 3:04 apart from the cars that crashed or broke. Several people came up to me and said that even off the start line they saw the fronts spin in first and second and the car fishtailing (from the front) all the way up to the first corner. Also was told that it looked like the way the power came in that I had a monster turbo, as it looked like I was not able to control it.

Second run I threw caution to the wind and was sure that I could get a 2:50 or so and maybe a 2:45 on the run. I was sure that I could control the beast up until 3rd but no chance trying in fourth. Big speeds and a wheel spinning, torque steering car on a narrow road do not match.

Great launch, controlled it all well through the first 2/3rds although it was hairy at times and I think I barely held it together. Missed a gear change into third and then on the final hairpin, went back into first started feeding in the power as the front end came around and then it surprised me and power kicked in. It steered itself to the wall, which luckily was dirt and no steering input could save it, and I just kissed it with the wheel, but then it decided that it wanted to swing to the left and straight for the barriers. I have never seen people get out of the way so quickly. I do not know if I did the right think but I gave it more power and it swung away again with about a foot to spare and wheel spun up the straight. I ended up with a 2:55 and considered not running for the final run.

Ultimately I could not resist, that was why I was there, but I settled down and did another 'easy' 3:04. I was 30 seconds of what the car is capable of and funnily enough ended up smack bang in the middle of various FWD cars but with much less power.

I looked at my times from two hillclimbs in 2006, and I was only 10 secs off the front runners with a far more basic car.

So car has the power, handling, an okayish driver just needs the drivetrain to be sorted. Next week the gearbox and Quaife is coming out and we will see what is going on. Can’t wait till it works as the car has potential.

ZEN Performance

Have you made sure you have an equal overall final drive ratio front to rear?

If you're still having problems, I would look at increasing the lock on the centre diff.

HRT

This is what was considered as a possibility after yesterdays effort. I am wondering when Pambos rebuilt the gearbox and installed the Quaife whether another ratio came in by accident from another gearbox on the bench. The rear is definitely a 4.44 as we checked when we installed the new Kaaz diff and I am sure the centre was checked as well.

It certainly started playing up between the two times that you tuned it, first time all with 4.44 ratios, RA diffs, PPG synchro gbox and then with Quaife front diff and PPG dog gearset. That was the only thing that was touched.

I recall on the dyno we noticed that the wheels were spinning at different speeds when slowing down but we thought nothing of it and put it down to that particular dyno.

HRT

Another race day in beautiful Cyprus weather. New course about 3klms in length with 48 corners!! 2nd and 3rd gear all the way.

Definitely somewhere that response and cornering speed rather than bhp came into the equation.

Anyway jumping a little ahead. We sorted the issues with the torque steer. The gearbox was stripped down and we found that the crown wheel had a few missing teeth. Also the dipstick had snapped and was lodged tightly in the diff. Was advised that the torque steer has stopped but that the car was very laggy.

General tidy up of engine bay fuel lines was required as the scrutineers did not want any fuel lines held with clamps only. Filter moved to boot with the fuel pump.

Picked it up Saturday afternoon but drove it straight home as it was 35 or so degrees and with the sun beating on it and no interior, plus the heat from gearbox and engine it becomes a sauna.

As I was in traffic never got a chance to see if it stopped torque steering.

Drove to the course early Sunday morning through the mountains and gave it some stick to see what it felt like. No more torque steer.

However what was evident was the rubbish response with nothing below 4000rpm and then an explosion of power and wheelspin. In fact the response below this is 'sticky'. If you hold part throttle and push through the rev range you feel that it sort of surges, as if it is choking and then it clears up at the 4000 mark.

It did something similar on the dyno last year whan Paul was mapping it, although not so evident, more that the power came in with a bang. Now I am not sure what it could be, but here are my ideas and i am not sure of the implication of each:

Restrictive air filter

External wastegate faulty

Turbo at then end of its life, although I would have thought that this would be evident at 7000 rpm rather than 2 or 3000 and then not produce top end power.

Turbo simply too big or just an older design without the rseponse of the newer GT35. It is from 2001 with a 0.63 turbine housing and has done about 35,000 klms or so.

Possibly some on-road mapping required.

Any ideas welcome.

Anyway did a practice run at 2.22.9 with suspension in middle settings and not going silly as I do not know the car well enough and when it might bite. Car felt a bit soft, however I could actually count the lag in seconds and actually counted two or three times 3 or 4 seconds before the power explosion. It is then as fast as anything else out there. With 48 corners it became a major factor.

I decided to play suspension settings instead, and went a bit harder as it was a fairly smooth surface, not potholes just coarse bitumen.

The car felt better straight away with less roll and more grip. The car danced between the faster corners where you could stay on the power and in the power range, but really lost out on the tighter corners where you had to get hard on brakes and down into second, with fairly low speeds and power out. Count 1,2,3 bang

My official timed runs were then 2.21.9 and 2.21.857. Now the 3 times were all identical but I was much faster in the last two. A missed gearchange on one of the few areas where I could have really extended it in third did not help and also totally mixing up what corner I was in and braking, going to second and finding that it was a corner I could have taken in third with a slight lift and back on the gas straight away did not help.

I think they could have cost me about 4 secs, plus about 10 seconds in lag, so about a 2:08. This would have put me up against various other EVOs and Subarus, and about 5-6 seconds behind the top 5, which will then require a lot of driver talent to bridge the gap to.

So for me a positive weekend, as I can see what the problems are. Next hillclimb in three months, so plenty of time to find the problem, another matter whether I have the money to fix it.

Ringer4fun

iTrader: (1)

Great read, good to see even with all your problems you are still moving forward, keep up the good work.

John

HRT

YouTube - ANAVASI AGIASMATI 19/07/09 PAYLOS

The hillclimb on the weekend. Its is faster than it looks!! Also turn up the sound as the Buddy Club exhaust makes a beautiful sound.


YouTube - HILL CLIMB AYIA EIRINI - DANGERous Approach

This was from a month ago when I had front end issues - torque steer, wheelspin due to damaged CWP.

Ringer4fun

iTrader: (1)

Holy ****, had to refill my glass of wine after seeing that, how the hell did you you drive that...

John

Grant74

iTrader: (10)

That was impressive mate! I do the Jersey hillclimb- have only done it once in my Impreza, but for a feel, here is a video in my old car:



some of its a bit tight- looks a little like yours!

See what you mean about the lag though.

HRT

I am not sure really. Had to manhandle it around the course. I got out of it after each run with my heart pounding as that was not the only escape.

I actually had people looking for me in parc ferme as they thought I had been drinking.

HRT

Nice, got to get me a camera. Very similar course, except ours are on the side of a mountain that rise by several hundred metres. So you are fighting gravity and as you coming out of some corners you are staring up at the sky as some of the inclines are quite steep and this is where I feel the lag.

I like that thay put hay bales and some form of barriers, We get either the armco, trees or air into oblivion.

Grant74

iTrader: (10)

Hay bales are a token effort, but yours does look a lot longer.

That torque steer was mental! Just had my car tuned by JGM so now going a lot better! We only get 5 events per year, but thats not bad for a small island, wiuth the next one end of August.

HRT

Last hillclimb held with GT35 fitted. As I knew that within a week I would be replacing the turbo with a GT3071, I only ran with 1.35bar and limited to 7000rpm. I knew the car was not competitive so why risk anything going wrong with only a week before the new turbo was fitted and mapped by Paul (Zen) while he is on holidays in Cyprus.

Will have figures tomorrow from the dyno.

Next hillclimb in two weeks so we will see how much better this smaller turbo works than a GT35 on twisty roads.

Ringer4fun

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like things are still moving forward, sure paul will work his magic.

John

Arch

iTrader: (59)

Must admit I would love a run up there it looks nice and wide compared to our hillclimbs.
Up here in Scotland the scariest event we have is the Doune hill climb. I didnt do the hills this year due to a number of car and budget issues but can assure you when you get to the top of Doune its a special feeling. Some in car of Donald McCaskils EVO, both him and John Stevenson have to be seen to belived attacking this hill. I am normally just glad to get up in one piece :

YouTube - Doune Hillclimb Sept 08

HRT

Big thanks to Paul and Steven in spending the day yesterday sorting both cars. It was a nice 33 degree day,although recorded 37 on the dyno.

Sti running problems sorted on road, passed emissions MOT test with the RCMS downpipe and cat and recorded only 91 decibels as recently I removed the RCMS backbox and replaced with an old backbox that I had on my WRX from when I lived in Australia. The RCMS backbox was way too loud and it took away the enjoyment of using the car daily. Anyway all good and it is bloody fast!

The GT3071 was fitted to the WRX and we got it on the dyno. Tried it first with the normal 100 octane race fuel, very quickly sorted and then with some 109 octane which I will use on the hillclimbs. Limited to 1.7 bar tailing off to 1.5bar. Rather than put up the dyno sheets I put the info in a table that I can easily update as I make further changes to the car.

You will see that at least in the ultimate BHP stakes the old setup of GT35 with 0.82 housing was the best, although the GT3071 with only the 0.63 housing and 109 octane fuel can beat it at the bottom end and stays with it till 5000 and only then does the GT35 pull away and holda a 40bhp advantage. I never got a torque reading when we did the mapping two years ago on the GT35 so not too sure how it went.

One thing that is obvious is that a GT35 and 0.63 housing does not work. The GT3071 kills it on torque on the same fuel and again only loses out in BHP after 5500. I am very happy with how the car feels on the road even on the 100 octane, the difference in bottom end response is amazing. It is not only the difference in torque and bhp but the way it is delivered on the road. There is still a big step between 4000 and 4500 but it is far superior . I cant wait to feel the torque difference between 3000 and 4000rpm on the 109.

I have put up the figures on the 2.5l and although it is in 4th gear and is different gearing you can see the huge torque difference of the 2.5l and bottom end repsonse of the AVCS heads. Now a 2.2l with AVCS, would be nice or even better this 2.5l motor in the WRX

Next step is a hillclimb we visited earlier in the year so it would be good to see what it will do against my earlier times. Now I am under no illusion that I can compete against professionally built and run workshop cars, with 650bhp, slicks etc but I want to get to a level where I am competitive against similar cars to mine.

Things to do next year, some 235/40 rubber and if all goes well a set of Cosworth cams and some head work. It should be able to breathe at the top end better and rev to 8000. See if I can get match the GT35 in the power stakes at the top with the 109. After that who knows?? 0.82 housing or a GT3076?

37 43 50 56 62 68 75 81 87 Speed mph 3rd Gear
3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000 RPM
BHP ATW
80 120 160 360 380 422 440 425 400 GT35 0.82 100 oct
70 80 130 300 330 375 390 370 352 GT35 0.63 100 oct
90 105 150 320 345 360 368 360 340 GT3071 100 oct
90 120 180 350 370 382 396 382 360 GT3071 109 oct

TORQUE ATW FT/LBS

125 120 165 335 330 335 320 285 255 GT35 0.63 100 oct
140 155 190 365 345 330 300 275 240 GT3071 100 oct
155 180 228 390 370 350 330 300 260 GT3071 109 oct

2.5l STi – AVCS MD321T+ 100 octane
Speed mph 4th Gear
37 43 50 56 62 68 75 81 87

BHP ATW 100 170 280 340 350 389 380 355 325
TORQUE ATW FT/LBS 170 240 350 391 350 345 325 280 230

DOES anyone know how to load a word or excel table??? even typing the info in does not help. It moves when I save it,

360ste

iTrader: (1)

I am envious of you fella. I did three years based at Akrotiri and loved every minute I could have going up the Troudos mountains in my Scooby. Yes it was on the roads but did a few of the Cyprus rallies where we travelled half of one stage for the Sunday to view a stage on the Saturday and a number of 4 by 4's turned round and we carried on up. Wish I could get some Zivania on mail order as getting fed up of Vodka. Good luck and hopefully next year might be over when a rally is on.

HRT

2009-10-18-1303-11.jpg picture by subaru450 - Photobucket


Only way I could get the table on here.

HRT

Glad you enjoyed your stay here. There are some fantastic and generally empty roads if you know what time and where to go. You can drive fast, safely and have some fun.

I am not a fan of Zivania anymore due to some incidents involving village Zivania, Greek dancing, shirt coming off and the next day over the toilet bowl. I stick to Keo or Carlsberg now. There must be some places in London where you would be able to get it as the Cypriot community is quite large.

Next hillclimb is the one we did in July, so over 43 corners. It was this course that led me to the GT3071. At least I have a reference time with no other changes except for the turbo. Hope to drop from 2:21 to about a 2:10.

Grant74

iTrader: (10)

Arch- what car are you in up there- that is narrow!

HRT- I was going to say I expected slightly more BHP then read ATW!

Are you both running sequential boxes?

No more racing til next year for me, so just the car to sort out over the winter

Arch

iTrader: (59)

Thats not me it's a lad called Donald McCaskill and its an EVO. Donald and John Stevenson have had some amazing tussles up there And yes it is tight I wedged my car at a 45 deg angle there between a wall on one side and the armco on the other

The link belo shows the damage I did the first time I went up Doune and got it all wrong

https://www.scoobynet.com/projects-4...ventually.html
pics start at post 8

Arch

iTrader: (59)

Cracking spec for your car should make for an interesting experience up the hills