RON

Right, so I've been thinking about all this 2.5ltr stuff for a while, and have read with far too much interest all the threads that have been going on, and finally thought what the hell when Mr Banks's first short block came up for sale a fortnight ago, when I spoke to him on the phone, he told me that one of the pistons had a slight crack in one side, but apart from that the block had done a mere 14k or so.... oh, and he also had an STI 5speeder with diffs and drops to go with my my00 rear diff.... oh, and.. and newly built tdo5/20g... so just some of the bit's required to make it all go back together as we have come to expect....

So where are we now then, well, just two weeks after speaking to John, i've driven to Scotland and back (1125 miles) and now have the block, gearbox, and turbo sat in the garage, since aggreeing to buy the bit's, the spending has not slowed, and I now have a K&N induction kit coming, a WRX01 intercooler, and a set of Gruppe S headers and up-pipe awaiting collection... oh, and today I've joined in on a group buy for a clutch and flywheel to transmit all that lovely power and torque.....

I already have a full H&S decat on the car, aswell as a few other small tweaks, but I wanted one BIG increase in power so that it feels as though I'm getting my money's worth.....

And onwards.... temptation was to great this afternoon, and i've been in the workshop splitting the block, I have got from John a piston to replace the cracked one, and while it's apart i'm gonna re-shell the bottom end, (even though it all looks yummy) and re-ring all the pistons... and lightly hone the bores so the new rings can re-seal themselves...

All i need now is a sack full of money, and one hell of a lot of further bits.....

Now for the questions...

Where's the best place to source ;

New standard piston rings.
New main and big-end shells.
and all the necessary gaskets...

one other quick question while I think about it... are the bolts that hold the two halves of the block together re-usable?? or are they stretch bolts like the head ones??

Many thanks for any assistance in the way of words.... therewill be plenty to ask/learn along the way...

And now just 3 pics for you...
one broken piston...

And the two bit's of the block...EEK!!

Tone Loc

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like an interesting project What are your power aims Ron...

And what size is the H+S exhaust, 2.5 or 3"?

Tony.

GUNNER

You had better go in doors now Ron, so your spanner's can cool down.

john banks

Glad it all looks yummy other than the piston. Looks from the pic that the piston is damaged on the crown and between all the rings? Public dissection of a patient I killed Don't tell the General Medical Council...

Other than rebuilding, if I was reusing this block I would have paid special attention to the surface finish and the flatness of the headgasket mating surfaces, or I would ask someone that is supposed to know about these things We think the failure was excessive cylinder pressure, going easy with timing on the second engine which has been running considerably more power (although perhaps no more torque) for a longer time successfully would back this up.

RON

HI John,
Yes, there are two pieces of ring land on the top of the piston in the picture, thankfully no little bits though, so at least I have all the bits!!
I'll run a metal straight edhe over the top of the blocks and see what i can come up with, hopefully it'll be fine, I don't really wanna go down the decking route.....

Tone, the system is 2 1/2 inch, and i have no plans to change it, I'm not looking for any specific numbers, what i get is what I get, that way i won't be dissapointed if i don't reach the target, there may well be a few things that will limit what i get anyway, and I have no desire for 400.....well i do, but i know that on the set-up that i'll have it's unrealistic, so i'll just be happy with what i get!!

Gunner... the spanners never get cold mate, they just lay in wait....


Ron.

john banks

When I had 358 BHP with 2.0 and 16G I think I still had 2.5" exhaust, with the obligatory splash of NF I think you are right not chasing numbers, chase driveability, numbers should come easily. Worth using a nice strong and smooth flowing turbo to TMIC pipe if you don't already have one, this is a cheap part, known bottleneck, and liable to split in standard form.

john banks

Mark Aigin@Lateral Performance (0208 4205444) tends to have good stock and fast delivery for some of the bits you need.

RON

Thanks John, I might have to start calling Mark 'Mate' eh......

Dyney

Looking good Ron
Planned mods sound familiar

Have you thought about the fuel system yet?
What injectors/FPR are you planning?

Might have a spare SX reg if you need it

RON

Thanks Ian,
Yes it's coming on.....

looks like 440's to start with and run it in on, then up to 550's for the mapping as and when...

Will also be parralel fed, with an sx reg..... details of your spare please!!


Spent a little while in the garage today, and got the rest of the block in pieces, and started the clean up process....
One clean block....


I borrowed a honing tool, and freshened the bores up gently....



Now for a question.....
Having found a 'spare piston in John pile of bit's, I have now noticed that whilst the piston bears all the same marks as the originals, there is a slight difference in the colouring of the skirts....

Can anyone please explain, and more importantly, is it going to be compatable with the rest of the pistons..... the original ones in the block are labeled as No1, the odd one is No2...???


All help appreciated as usual......

Looks like i'll need some new bits soon, otherwise i'll get bored!

Pavlo

it will be fine, the thing you need to check is the sizing of the pistons and the bore clearance. Also check your honing finish isn't too coarse, these days a find finish is used as the rings are different and bend in much quicker.

Paul

RON

Thanks Paul,
They're both marked as 'B', so presumably the same size, the hone finish isn't too coarse, I only wanted to freshen it up, not do too much damage, there was also a very light score where the original piston had marked it, but that has now virtually gone....
I will be checking the weight of the pistons just to be fussy, but i won't go the the lengths of matching them, unless they're lots out.....,

Cheers.

911

Great developing thread. Please post lots of detail and pics for the future...
Graham.

RON

Even though the spare piston fits the bore quite nicely, does anyone know what the piston-bore gap should be???

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Ideally you want 1 thou clearance...originally they came a little tighter than that, mine was 0.1 of a though for uinstance which was insane!

Hoppy

Ron, good luck with this. Dorset to Fife shows serious commitment. I also have a few of John's cast-offs on my 2.5 I finally got it mapped a few weeks ago and took it to the dyno run at Power Station. See here:

http://www.ashlyn.plus.com/work/shoo...ardhopkins.jpg

As you can see, torque is stonking at 341lbs/ft but there's summat wrong with the top end I need to sort out. I suspect breathing is restricted by the stock airbox with just an STi panel filter.

What induction are you planning, and what ECU? Are you comfortable putting a mega dollop of torque through that 5-speeder?

Here's my spec:

UK00 Classic
US 2.5 short motor
TD05-FE
Big TMIC of unknown origin, ex JB
STi-8 bonnet scoop
STi panel filter in OEM box
Gruppe-S headers and flexi up-pipe
Full decat 2.5in exhaust
Fuel pump etc
OEM 440 injectors
EcuTek by BRD

You will love the way it drives - no need to change gear - just squeeze the pedal

Richard.

RON

Tim, thanks for the clearnce measurements, i'm pretty sire there's that already, but i'll have a measure and see what i come up with.

Richard,
Similar spec to yours indeed, except that i now have a K&N induction, may even get the samco inlet pipe..??
More than likely 550cc injectors too.....

Although, it may be safer to stick with the 440's, and use that to limit the power potential...
Standard ECU more than likely mapped by Bob Rawle when the time comes....
I'm gonna have to stick with the STI box that's in the garage. i can't afford a 6 speeder anyway, well, until/if the 5 breaks!
One quick Question Richard.... Who is yours insured with, and at what cost..ish....???
Cheers.

Hoppy

K&N sounds the way for your turbo. My 440 injectors are running at 86% I think Bob R said, so you'll need 550s for sure. If you stick with 440s just to cap the power, you'd be better off with a smaller turbo...

I was just going to mention insurance! Oh the fun I had there. Capacity increases do not go down well, so you need to get this sorted. Thanks to fellow S'netters, Churchill and A-Plan came up a few times.

To cut a long story short, Churchill were keen to the point of pushy. Not a bad quote but insisted on a tracker. A-Plan were very similar, but no tracker required, and they seemed to know what they were talking about. However, they asked what per-centage my power increase would be over stock and I guessed at 50%. That went in the policy, but they said they'd be happy to put a higher number in, for a price I guess. Also, they wanted reassurance of a quality job and asked to see my receipt from API Engines. I know a few other peeps on here have approached them with DIY builds like yours, so perhaps they'll post their feedback here.

Another thing I did was not list all the mods I'd done, item by item, which gets very long and you then feel obliged to tell them everytime you change a nut and bolt. I simply said "capacity increase to 2.5l, plus induction and exhaust modifications, uprated running gear (suspension, brakes etc)". That's 100% true and they are happy.

My premium is £900 fully comp with all the trimmings, but bear in mind that I'm over 50, clean license, no accidents or claims, car garaged and good post code. Phone Darren Nangle on 01635 874646, it's their Berkshire office which spcialises in modded motors.

Richard.

RON

Thanks for that Richard, i'll be making an investigative call before i get too far into this, I suspect that at the moment, I could if need be re-coup most if not all that i've spent so far, if it comes to that, I'll end up having abigger turbo on what i've got already, and tekking it!

Re the clearance on the bore, I popped out in the garage, and managed to just about squeeze a 2thou feeler gauge in the bore with the piston, it was tight though!!

Big Bear

Ron
When I built my 2.5 the insurance company required an engineers report from an independent garage . In the end the cost of the insurance was just under £900 , with the MoTeC and the dog box declared .

RON

Engineers report I can handle, invoice from a 'garage' doing the work might be a bit awkward...... although I am self employed.. so could do it myself I gues... for myself

Granby

iTrader: (5)

Great thread, can't wait to see the results

911

Big Bear:
What was the insurance with the 2 litre?
Graham.

RON

Dare i post up the costs so far.....


What the hell, why not!!

Block, ................(needing work).........................£400
STI gearbox........with diffs/drops to suit uk car.....£750
TDO5/20G.....freshly built by Andy'f'....................£750
WRX intercooler......EBAY............................. .........£82
K&N induction kit...........for sale forum..................£50
Exedy organic clutch and lightened flywheel, GB...£450
Knocklink......................for sale forum.................£100
3 Port solenoid..............for sale forum...................£50

total so far..... .................................................. £2632




Parts still to source...:
New main bearings/bigends..
Piston rings
water pump.
Oil pump.
Cam belt. & tensioner maybe...
head gaskets.
Head bolts.
other gaskets.
injectors...
fuel pump
fuel regulator... (might be sorted)
paralel fuel rail bits...
i/c hoses.
Dumpvalve for 01 intercooler.
remap etc......

Anything i've forgotten....??????

911

Decent suspension package, add a further £1000 when you've done it all.
Good tyres, another £750.

You could be better off saving the lot and get a Type C, but that would be boring in comparison.

Stick at it, nice seeing someone else suffering for a change

Graham.

RON

Graham,
I have Eibach springs on the original my00 struts, which for my purposes seems to work very well, along with powerflex bushes on all the arb's... along with tyres that i'm happy with, so hopefully that and the fact that i run Godspeed 335mm brakes should for a while be adequate...

Went out for a fiddle earlier cos I was bored, decided to dummy fit the WRX intercooler, so i removed the original one, and offered up the new one, i soon learnt that you ned to use the 'y' piece off the original, (or samco in the end) the passengers side support bracket can be easily extended, and the other one is a bit more awkward, so i'm gonna try to get an original 01 one.
It even looks as though the my00 dump valve would fit if i felt like it, the bolt holes are at the same centres, but the shape is a fraction different, i guess on 01 one is what i need.... forge recirc i reckon?

I though i'd post up a picture of the car that this little lot is gonna be strapped into, just to get impressions off people really. I think you'll agree that it'll be proper stealthy when finished, due to being de-badged completely, people already don't know what it is when I go past..

Big Bear

911
the insurance before was around 400 mark but this didn't include motec, dogbox . Did include ap brakes , exhaust(full decat) , k&n air filter and 18 inch wheels

john banks

Except the number plate Like the rear spoiler. FMIC with sport bonnet and less shiney wheels would complete the stealth effect?

RON

I get your point John, although I have pasted over the last letter on the plate, fmic is one step too far for me, and the wheels are nearly new, so they stay aswell!!

Enquired about insurance today, Rob at A Plan said that as soon as the underwriters hear the words 2.5 usa block, they instantly think 1K+, and he also said that in a few months they 'may' not be able to even give cover, so dunno what to do now..... I really wanna do it, but don't wanna get it done and then be unable to afford/get insurance......Ho Hum....

RON

Looks like I may have to reduce my expectations somewhat, the guy who I was getting the headers from Has withdrawn them from sale.... even after they were officially sold to me over a week ago....DOH!

As a side note, what is the general concensus as to what using the standard headers that have been lightly ported will cost me power wise, cos it might be safer for me just to use the ones that are one the car now....... i already have an H&S up-pipe....