M0NEY

Right ive been reading alot and listening to loads of guys (especially the guys that have done this) and this seems very beneficial to do. Im told its a pain in the **** to do though especially on the earlier scoobs as you have to raise the manifold, modify the fuel lines and a couple of other things to do.

I know Andy F can supply the front entry turbo for you and so can Mark at lateral performance.

Anyway, for you guys who have already done it, could you post up how you did it, or any problems you had or any information that will be helpful for us lot.

Apparently its a lot of work but worth it.

Cheers in advance

David_Wallis

I was speaking to mark and he is looking to provide the spacers as well.. lift the manifold, choose a new inlet pipe.. re-route breathers, fuel rails, air filter.

If you are not competent working on your own car.. dont consider doing it yourself..

M0NEY

Yeah thats what he was telling me this morning. Should be interesting when he gets some prices

Im not confident about doing it myself but i can use dads garage. Ill give anything ago! lol

Have you done it on yours? I want to find out what exactly has to be done so i can weigh up how much its going to cost me in time and parts!

David_Wallis

pics of mine wouldnt do you much good..

David

M0NEY

Ok, cheers anyway though

Dan B

A front entry TD05



Can't get any more piccies as its now in my car....

Courtesy of Lateral Performance...

M0NEY

Was it hard to fit? What car do you have?

Dan B

STI3, and we fitted it with the engine out so it wasn't too tricky

Was a bit of an **** to get it to pass the bell housing on the way back in though

tweenierob

He wouldnt know, i did it

Rob.

Dan, did you get any pics of the up pipe??

M0NEY

lol at tweenierob!

Did it take alot of time then? I take it there wasnt anything else you had to worry about?

Dan B

Oye rob: go back to bed

Okay, I raised and lowered the jack, and pushed it a bit

up pipe:



droooooool. shiney

tweenierob

It wasnt much of a task on Dans car TBH, his original turbo was front entry so hios TD05 was almost a direct replacement.
I think the only difference between Dans old turbo and his new one is the extra power now

I have front entried my turbo but gone round the houses a bit..

Ive got a lot to sort out today, will post a manuscript on fitting later

Rob

tweenierob

P.s. where in Middx are ya?? may be able to help??

Rob (enfield)

M0NEY

Cheers Tweenierob, all the info will be great.

Im in hanworth (about 30 secs from the m3 and 15 mins from m4 junc 3). Next time your about, maybe i could pop over and have a chat?

You going to the Jap meet sat?

Dan B

The best bit of the M25 in the way

tweenierob

Right then..
First off this is all IMHO and other people should add their bits n tear it apart after I have finished

Where to start..

You are going to need two new sets of gaskets for the manifold, to sit either side of the spacer.
I know some people may say reuse the old ones but personally I would recommend using new ones. This is not only for peace of mind but will help out time wise when you take the manifold off and find out you need to replace them
I have found Graham Goode racing the best supplier of OE. Gaskets (next day)
The easiest way of getting this project underway is to source an original inlet pipe from a 97 on car (front entry car); this will make life easier when sorting out pipe routeing under the manifold.
Obviously you may be able to fabricate your own inlet pipe, which will have its own benefits over the OE. Inlet pipe.
IIRC you did not mention which Air induction system you are using at the moment? For this project I would recommend an induction kit of one kind or another as running the new inlet system will create problems running into an air box.
If you want to keep an air box system of induction I would recommend buying a second hand 98/00 air box.
For the following examples I will use a HKS induction kit.

The standard fuel lines that run under the manifold are metal and prove to be very much in the way under the manifold as the inlet pipe runs underneath them.
You can run an inlet pipe under the manifold but why not take the opportunity to do the parallel feed mod to the fuel pipes, there are a number of threads on here if you want more info on benefits etc etc.
This will require a fuel regulator and fitting kit. The fuel pipes under the manifold take up about 10mm of vital space when running the inlet pipe under, keeping them as they are will possibly mean raising the manifold a further 10mm to give clearance.

The power steering pump reservoir also needs to be relocated, this is because the design of our early manifolds was not set up for front entry, meaning that the reservoir sits exactly where we want the inlet pipe to come out of.
I got through this by getting an adaptor made up that sits on top of the power steering pump, it is basically just a small metal plate that bolts onto the pump and has a pipe coming out of the top of it to run to a remote reservoir.
For this I used a power steering reservoir from a 1992 Vauxhall astra, the same reservoir is fitted to most 92 Vauxhalls (corsa/nova/cavalier etc etc).
It has two ports on it for feed out and return, they also use a good length of hydraulic hose (about 1.5m), which make them ideal for remote mounting. If you do buy the same Res as I bought make sure you get as much of the hose as you can.
The return feed from the steering rack comes out just by the pump, this is where you join the return feed hose to from the Vaux Res, the other hose just runs from the feed of the vaux Res to the adaptor on the pump.
I would also recommend replacing the rubber seal on the bottom of the original Res for the adaptor.

I mounted the reservoir where my air con pump used to sit, the two hoses from them Res run behind the alternator. I am not sure if you have aircon or not?? If so another place to mount it would be where your original air box used to sit.
Some people have said that the Res can sit below the pump level but IMHO it must sit above, this is so that the pump gets a good feed of fluid at all times.
Enough about power steering anyway!!

The original header tank should be changed for a metal type tank, IMO this should be done to all plastic style tank cars anyway, but that is another subject
The reason for changing the tank is because it sits further back on the later cars and the early tanks sit too far forward and will not allow enough room for the inlet pipe to come round.
The two pipes that run to the top of the header tank are longer for the metal tanks so you will need two lengths of water hose for that.
I removed the lower mounting bracket for the header tank as I did not see any use for it and TBH could not be bothered to make another bracket due to the higher positioning of the later tank/raised manifold, a bracket will however need to be made to mount the later metal tank to the early manifold, this is because the mounting holes on the later tank are further apart than the older tanks.
The bracket is just a rectangle piece of 4mm stainless steel with two mounting holes to bolt it onto the manifold and two holes to bolt the header tank to the bracket.
The turbo to header tank and bottom header tank hoses are fine to reuse.

The two solid power steering pipes that run along the side of the manifold have two small retainers holding the two pipes together, these must be removed. This is because the lower pipe that runs to the power steering pump will be too high up.

Also, when removing the old power steering res, make sure that you suck as much fluid outof the old res before removing it, it holds A LOT of fluid in it and it will spill out when you remove it.

The later inlet pipe has a number of ports on it, two breather ports, a dump valve recirc port and an ISCV return (idle stability control valve).
I run without a dump valve and have blocked off the DV port.
one of the breather ports runs to the cam covers and the other runs to the crankcase breather. You will need some breather pipe to connect the ports to the cam covers and the crankcase port.

You will also need to run a pipe from the ISCV port to teh ISCV, this is not very difficult.

The reason the above is done is because if you look at your existing set up you will see that the 90degree plastic pipe on the turbo has a number of ports on it, dump valve/2 breather and the ISCV pipe on the plastic box on the original inlet system.

so...

Remove the manifold, make sure the ports on the heads where the manifold goes on are clean of gasket, place some cloths in the ports so that the bits of old gasket do not go into the heads.
Also do the same on the manifold and make sure you do not scratch either surfaces as this may lead to leakage..
Once the manifold is off remove the turbo, this can be done before removing manifold but makes life much easier and gives more room.

Once the manifold is off, carry out the parallel feed mod, also remove the parts of the manifold that the fuel lines bolt to under where the inlet pipe will go.

...
...
...
Off to work now, will continue tomorrow.

Rob

M0NEY

Cheers Rob, keep it coming mate

M0NEY

Another question,

what is the point of the up pipe on the classic?? I thought only the decat downpipe was done and the up pipe was just for the 7s and 8s?

Pavlo

the std non-catted up-pipe is rather poor to say the least. It has a hideous corrugated flex bit, and the exit is very small. Probably not a huge difference with a td04, but quite useful on a bigger turbo. That said, fuzz bot 15hp from ported headers and new up-pipe.

Paul

M0NEY

Cheers for the quick reply Paul.

Where is this up pipe though? I havent looked, i just always thought it was the downpipe on a MY95 classic.

Ive got a TD05 on there at the moment. So will it benefit more if i fit this up pipe?

Ported heads - another thing i have to do. Any prices on these? A mate said he could do it for £150 - good or not?

TelBoy

Excellent info guys, just seen this. I know guys who walk round in a state of priapism at the mention of front entry into a TD05, maybe i'll have to give it a go...

David_Wallis

its worth doing

David

M0NEY

Definitely worth doing - just sounds like a pain in the ****! lol

Been speaking to a couple of people now so have loads of info - time to give it ago

Fuzz

My standard ported headers are for sale if you fancy making me an offer?

I think it was 11 bhp gain over standard headers and standard up pipe !