Cosie Convert

Next on my list of "Cars I must have" once I sell the Scoob, is the Supra TT.

Will I be disapointed after having a Impreza, or impressed ?

I previously had a 3dr Cosworth and really liked it, with just a few suspension tweeks, it was a faster track day car than my Scoob.

Anyone done a track day in a Supra ? or even just lived with or modified one ?

Andy

LG John

If you mod that thing to be any faster than your current car then I'm placing my deposit down now to secure a run in it

goldschlagger

you're gonna need to get yourself a chest wig, medallion and Michael Knight style leather jacket for your supe!

but seriously, they are quick, and eye catching, but don't expect to fit anyone in the back and don't fit a tow bar to the back cos it looks gay (my mate's got one on his! and i'm sure he'll be adding his two pence worth on here too!).

Beef

Assume that's you Hef - cheeky sod.

Few things to consider:

Auto or manual? Don't automatically disregard the auto, it's *extremely* good, and more common than the manual. There is virtually no real-world performance difference, you can manually select gears with it, and it's extremely strong. It's only down side is two less ratios than the 6sp manual, which apparently can be a problem on low-speed corners as you're torn between bogging down somewhat in 2nd or revving the nuts off it in 1st. If the car is to be a daily driver, at least take an auto for a test-drive. You might hate it, but a lot of people have been surprised by how good it is. They're also cheaper than the manual.

UK or import? UK's are considered more 'desirable', as they have a bit more power as stock, all the toys, vastly better brakes and a few other things. However, if you're intending to use the car for track days a lot you may want to consider a J-spec. A bottom-spec RZ will have things like cloth seats instead of leather, less toys and gadgets, etc, and can easily be 100kg lighter than a fully-loaded UK.

In addition, if you have big mods (big twins or a bigger single) planned for the engine then the J-spec is probably a better choice, as all the things that make the UK engine 'better' (bigger injectors, stronger turbos, 95ron capable map, hotter cams) will be being upgraded anyway. Medium mods (eg hybrid turbos) will probably be easier on a UK engine, as there is more supporting infrastructure already. Light mods (standard turbos, but boost increase) there is little to choose between the two, as a UK and J-spec modded the same way will probably have a similar increase in power. The J-spec's have slightly less power and torque, but due to ceramic bladed turbos make it further down the rev range - the steel-bladed UK's have more power at the top end. The import-only VVT-i models produce more torque than the UK's, at lower rpm, but still have less power. The VVT-i's are also harder and more expensive to tune, so bear that in mind.

If you buy J-spec and intend to do lots of track days, budget for at least substantially uprated front brakes, if not the full braking system. The J-spec brakes are notoriously poor, as they figured that since the cars couldn't go above 112mph there was little point fitting the behemoth and expensive stoppers found on UK's. J-specs when driven hard (as in track days) are known for warping discs - it's unheard of for a UK to do the same, hence the reason lots of J-Spec owners fit UK brakes.

However, UK cars are very rare. IIRC there were only ever about 1000 of them bought into the country, and attrition since then (and I'm responsible for one) has reduced their numbers. This is why a lot of people go J-spec - they simply can't find a UK! Also lots of UK's have fairly high mileage due to being used as executive mile-munchers and similar.

Performance of either car you will find impressive. I do not know how modified your current car is, but as a comparison my very lightly modded UK 6sp (just decat, exhaust and bleed valve at 1bar) is sufficiently faster than a UK Scoob that a race I had with one meant I changed 2nd-4th-6th and even then I was changing early so as not to run into the back of him. At full chat in a straight line these cars will not be passed by many things on the road short of a supercar. It will never launch as well as a scoob due to their weight and 2wd, but once rolling they just pull and pull and pull.

With some suspension tweaks they are perfectly good track cars. One guy in our club surprised a bunch of Elises at one track day by hanging with them through the corners before using the considerable grunt of the car to catapult past on the straights. They love big long circuits, and provided you have the brakes to cope will probably surprise you with their lap times for such a big car.

They are bullet-proof reliable, extremely well made, extremely protective if something goes horribly wrong (as I can attest to) and require little more than sensible normal servicing to keep going like that. Many owners have had their cars for years and have never had a thing go wrong. They are obviously thirsty, and J-specs are naturally a lot happier on Optimax+booster, although UK's will run on pretty much anything from paraffin up.

You have to remember however that it's a large, quite heavy RWD car, with sufficient power to light the wheels up without trying. It's not a car you can just chuck the back out round a roundabout and expect to come back into line with minmal effort. The standard traction control on one of these is actively *dangerous* IMO, and played a large part in the demise of my 1st TT. A *lot* of members (including myself) have got Racelogic Traction Control on their cars, and the system has saved quite a few people from nasty moments. It can also come with launch control which is suprisingly effective

If you more questions, please visit www.mkivsupra.net where there are quite a few people willing to help you out.

Cheers

Keith

The RingMaster

Supras TT's are *AWESOME* !!!

Cannot touch a Scoob on a twisty lane, but get a nice (dry)
dual carriageway and scoobs are history....

Go well on a track too, 400bhp and 12sec qtr miles easy for
little cost.


Justin

LG John

In his CC's absence you guys should know that his current car put out 349bhp on the rollers recently and ran the 1/4 mile in 11.8 seconds so I would imagine he'd probably be looking to tune a Supra to go faster than that - I personally don't like the idea of changing to a slower car Now you know that, advise accordingly

Beef

Was that crank or wheel power? Either way, a Supra is *not* a 1/4 mile car. It's too damn heavy, too damn difficult to launch consistently (unless you have an auto) and simply not designed for it. If both cars were of the same power (and it's extremely easy to get a TT to 350bhp) then the scoob would cream one off the lights, probably stay in front until about 80-100mph, then be utterly powerless to stop the TT thundering past. From a rolling start it would be a lot closer as the grip advantage wouldn't matter. Mod the TT some more, and the 'overtake' point happens sooner and sooner. There are quite a few people in the states who run 10-sec 1/4's in their daily-driver TT's, so it's perfectly possible.

MarkJackon

Beef, that was a superb write up, enjoyed reading it and when I can afford one I will get one, had the earlier model Turbo, bought it and the Head Gasket gave way the same day, went back to the dealer and got my cash back !

That was a quick car, the TT must be mind blowing, currently have a Volvo T5 and a Golf Mk2 GTI as a daily driver which will become a track day car and the Supra for day to day.

What do they do to the gallon, I know it shouldnt be a consideration but....

Golf does thiry and Volvo does 22, do they do more than 20 ?

Cosie Convert

Thanks for that Beef, very helpful I quite fancy an Auto, as you say very little difference. I guess that the Auto will launch well every time where as the manual you need to 'get it right' to do a quick one. No lag between gears either.
I see there's one guy in the states with a 9.8 sec @ 153mph daily driver well modified but that appeals to me


Andy

ps Chest wig on order

Beef

Mark: Thanks, I hope people find it useful. On a recent trip to Blackpool and back I got approx 23mpg, sitting at about 80-90mph the whole time with the cruise on. Giving it some large bootfuls though I have seen as low as 12mpg! I normally average 18mpg or so, although bear in mind my car is modded and decatted, so the turbo's spool up substantially faster, and the sequential set up means I'm *always* on boost, no matter what rpm I'm doing. 1000rpm is about 3-4psi, and no.1 turbo is fully on-line before I've reached 2000rpm - and this is on a slower-spooling UK. A standard car will normally average 20-22mpg, with up to 26 or so on motorway trips.

It's a shame about the MKIII headgasket problem, as it's pretty much the only real weakness in an otherwise great car (I had one before my TT). That became a problem with the cars because the cooling system was designed to cool the original non-turbo MKIII. When they attached a turbo to it the cooling system didn't get upgraded as much as it possibly should have, with the result that with a perfect system the cooling was just about adequate, but when components degraded over time it simply wasn't up to the job and headgaskets went. It also doesn't help that the head isn't clamped well enough to the block, which with the weak cooling system was a recipe for disaster.

However Toyota have learnt from their mistakes, and the MKIV comes with a metal head-gasket as standard, and the cooling system is incredibly over-specced. Almost everything else on the engine will blow before the HG does, and in the entire time I've been in the Supra club I've only ever heard of one MKIV blowing its HG, and I believe that had other complications anyway.

Andy: Thanks, and I hope it answered all your questions. If you do have any more, as I say go to the Supra BBS where people with a greater understanding of the cars than I will no doubt be willing to help.

brickboy

I've only one thing to add, from a Car magazine test vs. an M3 (six cylinder version):

Over 200lb-ft at 1500 rpm in a standard car.

Yes please ....

MarkJackon

Guy at work has the earlier turbo and is looking for a replacement, he reckons he will get a Misubishi 3000, tried to convince him otherwise, will point him at this thread.

I havent driven either but have read quite a bit, the Mitsubishi just doesnt cut it against the Supra (or anything else). Looks good in isolation and may impress schoolkids but hasnt got any kind of reputation like the Supra has.

Also trying to convince my old fella, he's going to buy a Lexus IS200, nice car but not quick enough, doesnt seem bothered as he has a FIreblade as well.