Brun

Looking at one of these (2007 E90) with 57k, Msport with a few toys from a BMW main stealer for around £13k.
Seems like a fair deal but i have a few questions.

It will mainly be an m'way car so am i right to expect 40 on an 80mph cruise?
I also understand they do not have set servicing so i'm guessing that m'way driving will stretch out the service light intervals?
Looking around the net suggests that swirl flaps are an issue but not so big of an issue on this age of car.
Anything i need to be aware of?

D11AKS

iTrader: (1)

Mine was a fantastic motor changed to a 320 and to be fair the 330 on run was just as good on fuel
Swirl flaps don't seem to be an issue on the later cars but the dpf filter on the BMW are a nightmare and twice mine went in to limp mode because it would not regen
Look around as I sold mine on a 08 Plate for ££9500

Check the wheels if fitted with 19 or 18 inch rims as they tend to split with running run flat tyres

They are also very hard and harsh on the suspension to the point my sti with ppp pack is more comfortable

Try and get the best spec ed one you can find with nav etc but watch for the nav were you have to insert disk every time you use it and the I drive can be a pain in the ***

Check the clutch as they are prone to the flywheel issues

Only other problem can be the high pressure fuel pump and abs pump can be prone to failure

Brun

Thanks for the reply - of the above things you mentioned, are they particularly damaging to the pocket? (clutch and fly wheel accepted )
Any thoughts on the servicing?

D11AKS

iTrader: (1)

Wouldnt worry too much if it's from a main stealers the you will have a full BMW 12 month warranty

Abs and fuel pump around £300 changed

Dpf filter can be up to £1800 changed if it can not be manually regenerated

Brun

£1.8k Am i correct to assume that m'way running be a good thing for long life of the dpf?

D11AKS

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=Brun;10756510]£1.8k Am i correct to assume that m'way running be a good thing for long life of the dpf?[/QUOTE

The parts alone are 1300 just for the proxy filter most people are now removing the internals and remapping the ecu
Improves power and also fuel economy

That's correct motorway driving does help as they require a constant run at I believe about 3.5k rpm I used to run mine in 5th for about 15 minutes at about 75 to get it to regen is it auto or manual on the autos you will know when it regens as it will drive like its in sport mode and hold to the revs

Great cars but if you can stretch to a 335d then these are awesome and a proper flying machine

Brun

It's a manual.
335 would be great but i'd have to increase my budget a decent wedge for the right one

Brun

It's the 330d at £13,350 here if anyone has any thoughts

billyray911

iTrader: (4)

Are you bothered about what type of gearbox.Reason I ask is that there is a better spec'ed version,with lower mileage on E90 post.
Its an auto with paddles.Almost identical and is an LCI facelift model so has efficient dynamics and ,i think cic I drive.
He wants £14,000 ono.
Also has transferable BMW warranty.Seems an ideal alternative.
Link:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732811

ScoobyJawa

I LOVE my 330d. Best car I've ever owned mines a 2006 E92. Touch wood been reliable and the service intervals are great. I can manage 39-41 on a run and have an Emaps remap. Its 335d fast with better economy. DPF's should be fine if you are doing mway miles and swirl flaps no issue. Mines an auto and I love it, british roads for everyday driving I can't stand a manual anymore! Plus the torque converter can do a good job handling the remap.

I got an SE because it had the spec I wanted and not a fan of the msport rear end or the rock hard suspension!

Maz

iTrader: (34)

DPF can be deleted as stated above. It's not that big a job. It can be done with the DPF unit in situ too. A remap to compensate for the mod and it's all good.

'7'

Really? Why's that? Have they started making them properly?

ScoobyJawa

Swirl flaps issue was fixed in E9x series 3.0d unit (I think it may still be an issue with the 2.0d), or at the very least theres not really many owners with them failing (I'm not aware of any). E46 is a different kettle of fish.....

Gaz7612

They fitted bigger more robust swirl flaps that aren't prone to loosing the fasteners like the older ones.

I've got a 530D and on the motorway average 46mpg at motorway speeds, can get up to 53mpg if i'm steady which is not easy in a auto.

ScoobySteve69

iTrader: (13)

On the older cars you could reset the service lights with your own reset tool (if you wanted to do your own oil change or whatever). Apparently as the lights go out, the ignition retards slightly so when you have it serviced and lights reset...it feels better Dunno if the new ones are the same though

D11AKS

iTrader: (1)

Need to remove the internals otherwise they just keep clogging up and reduce power
Can also cause turbo failure due to the back pressure from the blocked filter

Dave Thornton

That's a very reasonable expectation. The manual is 5mpg better than the auto.

330d remapped manual or 335d (auto)? Now that's a good question!

ScoobyJawa

Different - you can reset service indicators via the computer button.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Not all teh 3.0 six pots have swirl flaps either, although I "think" the e90 6 pot does, but of a improved design (and improved EGR design) . Once I had to phsyically show the owner the inlet manifold on his 2006 X5 as he wanted his removed and there weren't any (engine was being taken apart after a turbo failure caused the engine to hydrolock with oil ).

The main problem with swirl flaps failing is down to how the car is driven in conditions where the EGR is operating - i.e round town and driving like a granny too much. Soot from the exhuast ends up caking itself on the flaps, they gum up, they stick, they break. If the engine had no EGR it would not have any issues. And BMW aren't alone with this issue; EGR is bad news for any diesel engines and their long term efficiency.

Similarly with DPFs they can clog byond teh point of regeneration if the car is driving in similar conditions without chance to regen. If they won't regen and its not been driven too much in limp home mode, they can be "cleaned out" by removing it and flushing it out with a steam cleaner and a strong mix of TFR and degreaser concentrate. Which is obviously alot cheaper than replacing it as its just a labour task, a dealership won't do this though - they'd rather fit new, as its the only way they can guarantee it'll be fixed.

The other issue with DPFs is if there is any engine ECU fault code present to do with engin running and emissions (i.e EGR, MAF etc), then it won't regen. So if a check engine light or service now warning comes up, get its sorted ASAP as its likely not to be regenerating, and the next thing you know the car will go in to limp home it senses that the DPF is full.

ScoobySteve69

iTrader: (13)

Brun

Thanks for all the input.
Took the car out for a good spin. Really impressed with the power, and in particular the width of the power band. The deal on the table wasn't really good enough so we walked away. Not sure what our next move is. Will probably wait until the 62 plates appear to see what cars appear

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

They didn't try to sell you all the Supaguard and Gap/smart repair crap?

GlesgaKiss

Interesting.

Slight thread hijack:

I'm looking for a 320d at the moment (177 engine). Obviously this filter is a major potential cost on what should otherwise be a great car. Is there any way of knowing for sure if/when the 'regeneration' process is happening? Or is it safest to just take it for a good blast down the motorway every so often to make sure? And is motorway driving the best method?

I've been reading this link I found on Google: http://forums.5series.net/topic/9472...e-for-the-dpf/

It's pretty much as you describe in the first para above. I think I'd definitely try that before spending £1800 on an 11 grand car. Scary!

On another note, though - how efficient are these newer BMW engines! Very impressive stuff. The 164bhp (I think) engine that preceded the 177 I'm looking for - which I think were brought in from the second half of 2007 onwards - was actually quite a bit poorer on fuel and slower. The new 184 engine in the 3 series is even better in both respects again than the 177 I'm looking at! Let's hope they keep it up.

Brun

Oh yeah - and even though we were quite clear that we were cash buyers, he went on for a fair amount of time about the "fantastic" finance deal he can do for us

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Basically. Yes. For it to regen the engine has to be at operating temperature (which can take a while on diesels), and driven in a sustained manner above certain abount of revs. If the cars see plenty of mixed use and not used purely for short journeys and stop/start driving then it shouldn't ever need doing.

But if it does, once a month take it for a 30minute 60-70mph motorway run in 5th gear, that should give it plenty of time to do it. Probably can use 6th if you drive faster

I wish BMW would publically and categorically state the precise exact conditions where DPF regen occurs on each model of their cars, because we also have a 530d GT and thats used alot for short journeys , but does get the odd run out at least a few times every month (plus driving to and from spain a few times a year), and it hasn't said anything on the dash (touch wood). This one has the 8-speed auto so 70mph on the motorway is about 1200rpm...too slow to regen? I don't know, sometimes I have caught it staying in 7th gear and not shifting into 8th, so maybe its doing a regen. It'd be nice if there was a light on the dash to tell me.

MPG. The newer ones are lot better. But I think BMW are being less honest with MPG figures compared to the data on their older cars. We originally looked at buying a F11 520d (180bhp) purely on the reason that it was supposed to do over 60mpg.....yet a quick browse on the forums showed it struggles to even do over 50mpg unless tootling on the motorway. And round town it drops significantly to around 40mpg. I think the start-stop, A/C and battery charging interferes with the official data vs the real world IMO.

In the end we decided the MPG gain wasn't enough to warrant the lesser performance (we were swapping from a e39 530 petrol, so the 520d was a bit gutless in direct comparison ). There was a few F07 530d GTs floating around for less money and of a much higher spec, so we ended up with one of them instead. Even so I've seen 45mpg out of on the motorway and typically 36mpg round town...and its quicker and cheaper to tax than the e39 530 petrol it replaced, so more than happy in that respect.

Pity about the handling and ride quality/tyres though. Our first BMW with runflats, I driven plenty of BMW and Minis with RFs, but never tried to live with one long term. And its just not working out. The ride plus lack of a spare makes driving to/from spain a serious worry of being stranded too (especially if we're driving back to catch a ferry on a Sunday - as everything is shut, so we'll have to shack up somewhere and miss the crossing).

I keep a can of tyre weld and compressor in the back, but even so I think this'll be our last BMW, it needs somewhere to put spare tyre regardless if it has run flats fitted or not (battery is now where the spare wheel was, so no space). Driving a flat/damaged tyre for over 100miles is just not a option (nor safe).

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I hate it when they do that. Even saying it was a bargain as its half the usual cost to have the smart repair/Gap package.

Seriously, I wonder how many people are pushed away from buying a car because of these dealer tactics. Becuase as soon as he started on this shyte I was ready to get up and walk.

Supagard packs can be bought on ebay for £5. And I bet the car isn't prepped properly before its applied anyway (i.e all wear and tear scratches etc. polished out properly), and the carpet? A set of genuine BMW rubber matts are cheaper. Gap insurance? Insurance is just gambling anyway, with the odds in the insurer's favour. Smart repair? Maybe, but after seeing some micro-repairs, I'd rather the whole panel/section was done properly. Dents? Dentdevils @ aprox £50 a panel. What more can I say?

Ste RB5138

I cant believe a DPF can cost £1800! Why do they cost so much, for what basically stops soot going into the atmosphere?
Whats going to happen in 10 years time when the cars are worth a fraction of what they are now and the DPF fails!

I sat in a dealers demo 320d at Bruntinghthorpe last weekend, I must admit its a nice place to sit.

GlesgaKiss

Thanks for that in-depth reply. The classic ALi-B Essay.

Ah, I see. Well it definitely won't be a problem to give it a good run, even if I have to go out my way, but as I mentioned in my thread, I'm doing a good motorway run at least once a fortnight now anyway. No problem at all to leave it in 5th for a while to be on the safe side.

Yeah, I don't know why there isn't more official info out there. It's clearly an issue that needs attention.

Well I've convinced myself this car will do mid 50s combined mpg (official figure is 58 or something), and don't you tell me otherwise.

I've been driving an ST170 about for the past 3 and a half years, so I'm quite looking forward to getting one of these. Really starting to grudge buying petrol for my Focus when I'm taking my time. Apart from the occasional blast, I basically drive like a granny on the road now. With my Focus, it doesn't seem to make any difference how I drive, the fuel consumption is the same, i.e. shocking. It will just be good to have the choice with the diesel BM: a bit of power there when you need/want it, or really good fuel economy when you're taking your time. There's literally no upside to my ST170 apart from perhaps the handling. Oh, and maybe the fact that some filter isn't going to cost me £1800.

As for the tyres/ride, that is something else I've thought about. I'd be tempted to change to some decent Goodyears or something, but as you say, what do you do if you get a puncture. Bit of a pain the ****, and one of the main downsides I suppose.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

DPF should be fine, I think just drive it as you would normally. If then it comes up with a warning on the dash, then do an extra motorway run every month or so.

I'm gutted about the tyres TBH. I love BMWs and nothing would be better for the long trips if it wasn't for the tyres. Punctures can't be reapired (officially speaking although technically possible), not many tyre shops have stock of runs flat nor a tyre changer that is capeable of taking the tyre off/on the wheel (even less places abroad). And the limits of being driven when flat are so vague that it gives me zero confidence. I'd rather drive to a safe spot to stop and change it for a space saver spare.

Theres a bulge in the one front tyre-wall (again) from the local potholes. So that'll have to be replaced for safety's sake. I know a normal tyre in this state would blow-out. Would a run flat let go in the same way? Nobody seems to know.

I wish BMW would have a rethink on this and refit a spare wheel well under the boot or hang a tyre underneath.

dj219957

is it only the 2007 effiecent dynamic models that have the DPF? e.g the 320d 177bhp