IntegraR

Im talking about the fact that Subaru's are extremely stable and have that 4wd safety factor built in, which means that (in my findings) you dont get a sense of thrill when driving them at anything other than high speeds.

Its a strange critisism I know, or perhaps more a compliment, but they arent exactly seat of the pants unless they are taken to hectic speeds.

I have watched some on track, its like a bit of tyre squeel, and round they go, a little too easy perhaps?

Not meant to offend, like Scoobs, but feel they perhaps offer a diluted dribving experience at do-able road speeds.

Its accessing that fun factor in a car, and I think the S2k would be more fun more of the time than a Scoob.

[Edited by IntegraR - 5/2/2002 1:36:42 PM]

Fat Boy

S2k nice car, totally different to a scooby. Comparing apples and pears really.

In terms of outright speed S2K may be quicker (just) than a standard uk, but it is significantly slower than a P1/Sti from personal experience at dry and wet Brands. Same comment goes for Integra R's as well from experience at dry Donington & Bedford. Won't argue about apparently less involving handling nature of Scoob particularly at (or over) the limit, but it's still fun learning the different technique for a 4wd versus FWD or RWD.You don't automatically become some sort of driving god just because you only have 2 wheel drive, 4wd can be just as tricky once you get to the limit. Mind you the Integra's did seem to spin most at the last Bedford. No-one could accuse them of not trying.

[Edited by Fat Boy - 5/2/2002 11:59:06 PM]

bumcrack

I test drove a 02 model today, it was much faster than the scooby from 60-100+(I nearly shat myself).
Get fun and handles well, I what one more than ever now.

[Edited by bumcrack - 5/4/2002 5:31:54 PM]

bumcrack

No more power, but a changes to the anti-roll bars, revised dampers setting and wheels slightly different. It's basicly easyer to drive on the limit and more forgiving.
Inside CD as standard, rear window is glass instead of plastic on the <01 model and the odd change to the dash layout.

Modded scooby much easy to drive fast and more forgiving if you make a mistake. If you wanted to get from A to B in the quickest time with the least effort pick the Impreza(yawn). If you want to feel like your driving a race car and love the thrill of driving at speed pick the S2000.

I gave it some stick today and it was faster than a standard or a slightly modded scooby(like mine, ITG filter, decat downpipe) at 50+ in a straight line, I didn't really 'boot' it at low speed because it seems like your driving more aggressvely and it's not really the done thing to screw it in first and second gear on a test drive.

It handled well at 95 around the bends and I actually said " Jesus Christ" as it raced up to 105 no problem.The scooby tends to run out of steam about 100 ish, but this thing was still going strong 105 before I shat myself and slowed down.

Good points are :-

More rewarding to drive
Looks better
More fun
Better on juice
9000 mile service
cheaper service
Electric roof comes down/up in 6 second
Rare car
Can import for 21K with 3 years/60,000 mile cover

Bad points

Harder to drive fast
Less forgiving
High insurance group
2 seats only
Not as refined at speed

Two totally different cars



[Edited by bumcrack - 5/5/2002 10:25:33 AM]

LG John

Got wasted by one of these today! The Saxo had been feeling quick all day and then the Honda came along (looked totally standard) and thrashed me! I've played with standard scoobies before and they have never pulled a lead like this thing did. Anyone driven the S2000 and the UK Impreza back to back - how did they compare?

saxovts2000

it's quick but not as quick a scooby, could be wrong 0-60 6.2 secs and tops out at 150 (scooby 0-60 5.4 and tops 146???) and a darn tasty car....lucky me gets to drool over them all day just aint driven it yet!!

Though the CTR is quicker and more practial than the S2000

Your saxo would stand a chance against it and either would mine!!

HTH

MikeD

andrewdelvard

People read too much into 0-60 times, all they give is a really one dimensional picture of a cars potential. Take a look at in gear times etc, etc.

[Edited by andrewdelvard - 4/25/2002 9:14:14 PM]

mattski2

Saxo Boy ... you not got rid of that french shed yet?

cletterridge

I agree with Andrew, 0-60s are just a meaure of the track surface, the tyres, the weather at the time and how much the tester chooses to abuse the clutch/gearbox etc. 0-60s in magazines vary wildly, so I look at the in gear times instead (more applicable to how you drive the car every day).

Much sadness along these lines here....

http://www.benerridge.freeserve.co.uk/accn.htm

saxovts2000

I know the 0-60 times don't tell alot but of the top of my head I cant remember what the in gear times are, I will find out tomorrow at work and post them in the evening.

AliWrx

Also bare in mind that the S2000 revs to 9k before gear changing and gets quicker and quicker the further up the range it goes! Mean while you are dropping out of your power band!

ChrisB

Less power loss in the transmission as well.

bumcrack

I'm looking at an S2000 next, top motor.
Test drove one a month back and still grin when I think about LCD winding round to 8500rpm's.It's like being in a race car.
Fast than a scooby in a stright line, but tricker to drive at speed round bends on the limit.Much more fun.
CTR is not quicker in the dry, but it has the edge in wet and damp roads. You have to remeber this 240BHP RWD and you can't just throw it into corners like 4WD or FWD, it will bite in the ****.
Put a good driver behind the wheel and it's very capable car.

EVO tested 02 model recently
0-60 5.6 sec
topspeed 150
Quicker at the top end as well



[Edited by bumcrack - 4/26/2002 12:13:25 AM]

LeeMac

iTrader: (1)

Dont be silly little boy, faster thatn a scoob? you havn't seen a VR4 go have you

LG John

Certainly looked to me like it would take a scooby in a straight line. Still saving to trade the 'shed' (as you so kindly put it) for a scooby.

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

Kenny - I drove a S2000 around 18 months ago. Nice car - lovely short gear throw (but then I hadn't tried the quick shift on a Scooby by then) - but wasn't blown away with it as much as when I first drove a Scooby (drove the Honda first). To get the most you really had to get the revs up - it did sound nice and it felt great sitting low - a real sports car feel.

Richard.

[Edited by Scotsman - 4/26/2002 1:22:35 PM]

ADP

WE had an S2000 and a Scooby(my01 WRX) and the S2k was defineatly quicker in a straight line but anyway, neither could catch our Tuscan he he

logiclee

Was lucky enough to get a ride in one a couple of months ago, very quick once the vtecs in but it comes in very late.
Very little mid range torque, remember thinkig I couldn't live with it day to day. You have to comitt 100% or you may as well be driving a standard 2.0l rep mobile, thats how it felt anyway. 9000 rpm it may have but it only has 2000rpm with any power in it and thats the last 2000rpm.

Lee

bumcrack

From 5000rpm to 8300rpm there's 100BHP difference.
Its a very different drive from a Scooby, You've got to drive it like you've stolen it.
Takes a bit of getting used too, beater on the juice though.
It's my next mission.

[Edited by bumcrack - 4/26/2002 6:44:29 PM]

MattN

you sound as though it's some sort of hardship revving the engine - it's not, it sounds great, and is very easy to use.

manny

I had a bit of sport with a red S2000 only last week, he appeared from nowhere and hung on to my back end, so i preceeded to destroy him in third gear, not much in it after that, but the gap was consistent, when i backed off he pulled along side looking shellshocked, gave me a wave and drove off. That was in my 99 turbo with the TEK1 upgrade, the TEK2 is in now so he has even less chance. So in short Scoob 1 Honda 0

lpitt

manny: Doesn't a consistent gap mean that he was keeping up with you? Standard S2k 1/2 Modded Scooby 1/2 methings

lociclee: The VTEC comes in around 5,700 through 'til 8,400 which is nearly 3,000. The Scooby comes on fully (talking both standard cars here) at 3,000 and loses it around 6,000 which is also 3,000. Not sure what the difference is.

I would have to say, when I first got my Type-R it did seem slower than the Scooby. I also had major problems pulling out from junctions or traffic lights with my brain in AWD mode. Now it's got 7k on the clock I've just about got the measure of it and would more than happily take on a standard Scooby in the dry.

And in a few months with some mods...

Of course in the wet is a different matter. I would just let the Scooby on past and avoid embarrassing myself

That's why the Scooby won't ever be in the BTCC and you probably won't catch a Type-R on the RAC Rally ever!

Laurence

bumcrack

Manny, You can't take the roof off a scooby
When I drove the "s" I didn't think it was as fast, but it's more my lack of skill than the car.
What's a TEK1 upgrade btw.

logiclee

Laurence,

Take your point about the 3000rpm power band, must be just a brain thing, seems more natural coming out of a bend with 4000rpm rather than 7000rpm on the dial. Going through a simular process at the moment trying to adjust to the Alfa's Selespeed gearbox.

Suppose its like anything else adjust you driving style and get used to it.

Been in Matts White Civic TypeR a couple of times around a couple of circuits and although it seems to lack the midrange punch of the scoob not many were getting by him. The speed it carries through corners on slicks defies Newton!

Lee

LG John

I agree with you logiclee. I love to thrash the Saxo but you really do feel like your murdering it after a few minutes cause you adjust your driving to ensure your always above 5000rpm. I'm sure the car is quite happy to do that and the grunt is always available up there, but you do feel like your taking thousands of miles out its life. Would be nicer to leave a corner with 3000rpm showing and know you've got all the grunt you need.

lpitt

Saxoboy: Have you ever driven a PROPER VTEC (S2k, CTR, ITR etc) with a proper limit (8k+)?

Once you have you realise just how addictive it is getting into the VTEC zone, it gives exactly the same buzz as having the turbo come on boost

Remember, it's just as easy to come out of a corner off-boost as it is to miss the VTEC. It's all a matter of practice in the end.

Watch for me to post when I find a trackday to test my car at (once the exhaust is done), I'll more than happily take you out for a buzz

Have a good weekend.

Laurence

LG John

Have a good weekend too Ipitt. Never driven any of the VTEC honda's before so it's an experience yet to be had. I love revving the Saxo and it sounds brilliant (begs for more). To me it still feels brutal though. For example, I was giving it big licks today and by the end of the day I was feeling really bad about it - worried about the affects of such hard revving!

Mark Jackson

You were licking your car ! Strange boy

I would imagine that giving the Honda some stick would not feel quite as cruel cos its a quality product, however quick the Saxo is you cant compare it quality wise hence why it feels like it wont last. All my dealings with Citroen products have involved large financial outlay at some point hence why I am a little scathing, I think you saving up for a Scoob is a good idea, get rid of the Saxo before it gets anywhere like 70k

LG John

Yup - tastes like chicken!

Good plan, the Saxo feels ok for the first 25,000 miles but she just doesn't feel so good now, rattles, squeeks and doesn't seem so settled on the road. I fear to think what it would feel like with 100,000 on the clock

bumcrack

Its true about the Revs thing Sado boy, (sorry I mean Saxo boy)
When I used to give the Clio some stick I always felt like it was going to blow up at any moment.
It's different with Honda engines though, and it's very addictive to rev it past 5500 as well. I think it's to do with the smoothness of the engine though the whole range. Compared with the lumpy Boxer of the Scooby it's like chalk and cheese
Apparantly Honda have strapped the engine out of the S2000 to a bench and rev'ed it at 9000 revs for 24 hours, took it apart too see the damage and there wasn't any and it was fine.
Honda have a long history of building racing engines since 1965 and is the biggest manufacture of engines in the world. Plus it's still involed in F1(mind you so is Renault). So it can be screwed with confidence once it's warmed up.

See ya