alcazar

iTrader: (2)

My lad has a Clio Sport 197. He's been reading up on the ClioSport forums, and they are recommending companies that remap.

Apparently, you get 10-12 bhp more and 10-15 ft lbs more torque right across the rev range. All this and no increase in consumption.

Now forgive me, but it sounds too good to be true.

Firstly, will he even notice the gains?
Secondly, are the gains REAL, or just promises?

My own experience is that simply tweaking the map of a small, naturally aspirtaed, high-revving petrol engine won't really give much return. Anyone had other experiences? Or can comment?

Also, do mappers like Bob Rawle, JGM etc map Clios? I've never heard of the company he wants to use, KC, or something

14N-FR

iTrader: (3)

I had a modded Corsa-C 1.8SRi with highlift cams, exhaust manifold, flow heads etc and saw only a 50-60bhp increase, so without supporting mods, I dont think you will see too much from just a remap on a N/A engine.

The figures quoted are pretty optimistic IMO, but I am not a Renault man.

Coffin Dodger

Kind of sound plausible just based purely on the fact that manufacturers will obviously leave a bit of a safety margin in the default map. Remember that one ECU map has to cater for all those particular engines that roll of the production line, some may be able to take a bit more than others.

Therefore by applying a map that is bespoke to one engine the envelope can be pushed a little bit, assuming the map is done on a rolling road or on the road with all the necessary monitoring applied.

As mentioned though to see any real gains from an NA engine you have to be looking a high flow heads, aggressive cam set ups etc. Alternately just fit a turbo or supercharger kit

Fantom

It just doesn't sound worth it. Maybe for £100 but I bet he'll be paying a lot more than that?
Try and explain that he would be better off taking a driving course if he wants to go faster.

Jamescsti

I had my 1.6 fiesta zetec s remained.years ago and got.a.10bhp increase, I never felt any difference really was a waste of money. I ended up going down the fast road came route which is significantly more than a re map

chaffe

iTrader: (1)

NA tuning is a myth, it doesnt excist imo

greg320

iTrader: (15)

stripping the weight, will get you better gains

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Tried to explain all this last night, but it went down like a lead ballon.

He's after the torque to have a nicer car to drive, (with it being high-revving, it needs to be up there before the performance comes in), so I just can't see him being satisfied

But will he listen to his old man? Nope, not what he WANTS to hear

beastgtir

iTrader: (1)

It is possible, but he might need to put a de-cat on and etc to gain it..
N/A engines are fairly restricted to pass emissions etc,
There are people on the Civic Type R forum who are running 220 bhp 150-160 ft lbs with a Gruppe M filter, Exhaust and a remap by CPL/TDi etc.. Standard is 197 bhp/145ft lbs
Some with race manifolds (no cat) 2.5" exhausts, uprated cams, larger intake manifold/throttle body and remapped are running over 250 bhp 175 ft lbs torque..

I would say the 10 bhp, 10-15 ft lbs torque is very plausible but tuners can make any car look good on the rollers, It could be a generous dyno and they aint even touched the car!

rossyboy

iTrader: (8)

Waste of money IMO. I changed the ECU of my classic from a 240ps one to a 260ps one a while back and it was virtually un-noticeable.

10 bhp is only 5%, so I seriously doubt he'll notice.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Totally hit and miss IMO:

Not sure about the 192, but my cousin's clio 172 responded quite well. But power gains were tiny.

Does 192bhp on the rollers now...but thats with exhaust, ported manifolds, exhaust and the remap - the remap mainly sorted the intermittant flat spot it had at lower revs which it had since new.

Admittedly its ALOT of money for a 20bhp gain though; a decat without a remap would probably gain just as much. But the remap did cure alot of the low speed 'glitches' the car had as standard.


Supercharger kits is where the proper power is at (without the lag) - I'm still tempted to get one for my R32, but most companies that offer it want to fit it themselves.....I'm more than capeable of doing it myself ...so why pay someone over a £1K to fit it?

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

Just a caveat to add here; on engines with high and low cams - eg Honda's VTEC system - you can actually get some very good midrange torque gains by remapping and playing with cam angles at VTEC crossover point (which is often lowered). On the other hand, the top end gains on these engines with a simple remap is actually very small indeed unless other mods are added.

Oh, and FWIW, normally aspirated tuning does exist; my FD2 Civic (K20A/2 engine) is running just over 260bhp NA with peak torque of 180lb/ft in the midrange; this compares with 225bhp and 155lb/ft as standard. The difference is night and day

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Pity I never got round to that camshaft swap on my Monaro.

One mild camshaft = 60bhp increase..with no other mods (except valve springs and ECU map)!

Stick a silly cam in and it'll idle like a drag racer and with supporting instake/exhaust mods get another 150bhp over standard. Not too shabby for what are basically just bolt-on mods.

john banks

For a hugely detuned NA car (not many Euro examples I can think of) it is worthwhile with a cam and breathing mods, on selected engines.

The company I do consulting work for dropped development and further sales for normally aspirated chip tuning to concentrate on turbos. I think this was a good decision.

jta

I always thought the remap of a non turbo was to give better mid range power not bhp top end stuff, please correct me if i am wrong but i think there will be a noticable difference in mid range i know tuner always always use upto 15bhp lol but remember this is a upto you may get 5bhp however if your car is running lean or similiar and you have lost bhp your going past the original power quoted so worth a go

djandyg

iTrader: (2)

Not worth remapping IMO unless you are adding cams/throttle bodies... Im sure he could get a gain....but its miniscule compared to the cost.
I had a 1.6 MK5 zetec s fiesta before the scoob, with a K&N, 4 branch and decat, and then stripped all the weight out of it (rear seats, seatbelts, spare tyre, sound system etc...)

Daryl

Agree that he might see an improvement in mid-range driveability. But, and it's a big but, if he wants more power then he should probably buy a different car. The 197/200 is just right AFAIC; a perfectly balanced little car that is more than the sum of its parts.

jonc

I have a Unichip'ed Clio which has been mapped to a freer breathing induction and exhaust. It's been wired so that I can revert back to normal ECU if I choose to do so and with this can do instant comparisons. There is a definite improvement in the mid range and a slight improvement in mpg. Were not talking huge differences, but it is a difference nonetheless. As to whether it's worth the outlay depends on how much cash you have to burn, for me the Unichip was already installed when I bought the car.

I would however go with the RSTuner kit where you can map the car yourself with calibration files downloaded from the mapper's website. With the kit you can do live analysis and read and clear error codes and is a useful diagnostic tool. You can either use a choice of different pre-defined calibration files or you can have a custom file made up for you based on the performance log generated by the kit and sent to the tuner.

acstua

iTrader: (1)

an rs2k on throttle bodies always made a lovely sound
were a few on the rs2k owners (mk5/6) quite understated imo
but to get decent power with na it always seemed to mean a huge amount of engine addons changes etc

and as above with the CTR and its VTEC, although the KPro chip was about 700quid or something silly :/ i think the baby k100 was more affordable mind
that with a spoon N1 etc etc made a nice difference, as above specially to mid range
i was always put off by the cost though, so never got around to doing it

turbos seem so much cheap bang for buck compared to na

wrx287

iTrader: (8)

Tell him to put throttle bodies on and then map it

The Zohan

+1