Trout

iTrader: (1)

It's that time that magazines drop through letterboxes with this years line up. And it is one of the best line-ups yet. Here is the list of contenders in alphanumeric order...

Audi R8 V10 Spyder
Ferrari 458 Italia
Ford Focus RS500
Lamborghini Gallardo LP570
Lexus IFA
Lotus Evora S
Mercedes SLS AMG
Nissan GT-R
Porsche 911 GT2 RS
Porsche 911 GT3 RS

Trout

zip106

Would that be a 1st place for the GT3 and a 3rd place for the GT2, by any chance?



Oops..... bit of a spoiler there!

MMT WRX

Crickey Trout, I've been waiting for you to post this for three days.

john banks

There has been some interesting discussion of this on the GTR forum

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/145179-ev...ear-issue.html

rabbos

I pretty much love all the ECOTY cars, even the homostealth fighter focus.

Those GTR owners want to calm le fek down before they stroke out. It's going to be far more of an event driving the LFA around than the GTR, whatever the performance.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

It must be tough coming second last

MMT WRX

Nice quote

I read some of the thread, wtf is a matter with people. They get this badge pride and can't see or take any criticism. And its not limited to the gtr forum, take a look at some of the posts on the other forums, including Porsche.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

EFA

Matteeboy

Very disappointed the cheapest car is £35k and most are supercars.

I think Evo journos have got spoilt - they are doing "too much" supercar stuff and not enough "normal" performance car reviews.

While I have a passing interest in supercars, my eyes soon glaze over. Like watching big wave surf videos - sure it's impressive but it's not "relevant" to me so I get bored. Show me realistic waves (especially in the UK) and I love it.

Surely there MUST be more cars around worthy of ECOTY that aren't over £50k?

Trout

iTrader: (1)

This is not typical of evo - most years they have budget cars as well as the supercars - and most years the cheaper cars do quite well.

This year they did specifically say that they were disappointed with the lack of new hot drivers cars this year, hence the bias towards the more expensive end of the market.

Matteeboy

Trout - they did indeed mention it but IMO that's just an easy way out.

What about the Golf R, the Megane 250 (listed as a nearly car), the most recent Evos, the Elises, etc, etc.

I think they've just gone on a massive self indulgence mission. After all, the Gallardo is now pretty long in the tooth.

If they keep on testing cars hardly any of their readers can afford and that are cr4p on 99% of UK roads (I exclude 911s - which are nice and compact) then they'll lose readers in droves.

I for one am cancelling my sub after this years ECOTY. I'm sure many others will do the same.

Yes I was interested in the Evora and the 911s - the other cars I couldn't give two hoots about.

MMT WRX

Yes well edited

I haven't received my mag yet. No post for a week now.

john banks

I don't think the guy I was quoting even has an R35, and he was comparing the LFA and 458 engine and made an interesting point. However, I haven't read the evo article and probably won't since I don't subscribe, it isn't in the shops and the iPad app isn't in the app store yet.

You'll get fanboys of every platform, most take things far too seriously.

Oddly after not driving the R35 for 2 weeks I don't really miss it. I certainly don't miss the firm ride, the worry and the dual clutch gearbox, mainly because over winter its performance advantage over a normal car is completely pointless. No fanboyism here

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I haven't driven my GT3 either.

Mainly due to the large 3ft snow drift I would need to dig out to get the car to move!! Maybe this weekend.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

It is kind of a moot point though. If the greatness of the engine was purely specific output then the argument is fair. But some engines with high specific outputs are not very attractive engines - certainly in a road car. It is very subjective and part of that must by the exhaust note which we know in many cars (especially Ferrari) is totally synthetic.

Anyway we all know the GT3 had the best engine anyway

Dingdongler

I'd like to know why there was no BMW diesel in the line up. We all know that a 535d is the most a real man needs, anything more is just people using cars to compensate forpw defiencies in other parts of their life (including small *****).

Nb: except people who have owned a M5.

Matteeboy

They HATE diesels.

The 335d isn't even listed in the "Knowledge" (not sure about the 535d) - curiously the 330d, 123d and 320d are. Hmmm...

A car that does 0-60 in 5.7s, 100 in 13.3 and gets to over 160 (delimited) not in Evo? I see.

Not.

Dingdongler

My comment was tongue in cheek Mattee, I wasn't expecting my upcoming 2 tonne family saloon to be a drivers car of the year

However I do agree that it would be nice to have seen some more sub £100k cars in there.

john banks

Often they have some cheap Renault in there and it does OK. It is entertainment/car **** though, not serious journalism.

Agree on the x35d engine being more than enough for anyone for a road car. Rubber band runflat tyres and RWD with no proper diff are not everyone's cup of tea though.

Jimbob

iTrader: (13)

Any results on this??

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Lack of diff is the biggest issue - especially at the moment! I need an LSD just to get off the driveway!

paulwrxboro

FWIW i think the RS500 is a bad call on this its 10k more than the standard car and all for 45bhp and a matt black wrap last year the RS dident make it

jeremy

What disappointed me was that a few issues ago BArker put the 911 turbo down for its unfaithful responses on the same wales roads? He said the rear engine placement was the culprit. And now the GT3 on the same roads has no rear-engine issues? It would seem to me that the evora and gt-r would be a lot more predicable and surefooted along those roads.

I'd like to see them spend a few days with the evora s, a 911 turbo, a GT-R, and a gt-3rs and see what engine placement really means. I doubt they'll do that as their narrative has to stay the same Porsche 911GT3 models are the "best". We need automotive journalism back. j

rabbos

It's probably some feature of the turbo's awd deciding at random where the power's going versus the GT3's "purer" setup.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Surely the fact that the same magazine has different views is journalistic integrity - surely different journos can have different views and be allowed to extend those views.

As for comparing the Turbo and the GT3 RS they really are fundamentally different cars. Commenting in rear engine placement to bracket all such cars is a bit like saying that all front engined cars are the same...

Trout

iTrader: (1)

PS and maybe, just maybe the GT3 RS is a great car? It's not only evo that think so

jeremy

"Commenting in rear engine placement to bracket all such cars is a bit like saying that all front engined cars are the same... "

Well thats what Barker said. Look it up. Indeed I think hes right for rough and greasy conditions a well set up scooby would be the more faithful handler than even your justifiably esteemed gtsrs. j

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I am not suggesting that Barker didn't say it. Not at all.

I was suggesting that not all rear engine cars behave the same; just like front engined cars.

jeremy

Trout,

"I was suggesting that not all rear engine cars behave the same; just like front engined cars."

I agree with you. But I for one would be highly interested in reading about the strengths of smallish front engine cars trumpeted a bit more these days. Its like everyone has forgotten what made UrQuattro's and Sti's and Evo's and Intrale's so fun for everyday driving. Its like evo are trying to make everyone think that fast road cars are all about rear and mid engine placement.

I personally would love to hear more about how a similarly powered and well set up scooby would compare with your gt3rs? Just how do one drive a gt3rs on regular greasy roads? Must you be extra cautious? What happens if the tail gets out a bit and theres an obstacle in the way? How do you get the car back into shape? I miss reading steve whitehorn on here talking about how indeed the small car front engine 4WD layout with a little final understeer is actually best for most fast road driving on real roads. With all that said yes I understand that the GT3 is among the most tactile and visceral and adjustable dring cars there is. Let know about how your GT3 goes I know I'd be interested to learn- not being sarcastic btw. J

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I didn't think you were being sarcastic

If you can dig out the ScoobyShootout results you can compare how the GT3 performed in a FLOOD compared to the Scoobs and Evos. It was somewhat of a hindrance!

The 911 has a surprising amount of grip at the rear and the deal when you lose it is the same as the Scoob - there are quite a few on here that have lost it on greasy roads - it starts to slide, lift off, tree!

The RS is harder to drive in the wet because it comes with semi-slicks OEM - but on ordinary tyres it does pretty well.

How it would compare with a similar power to weight ratio Scoob - wet or dry it would be a close run thing. RS would probably win in the dry - even money in the wet.