RS6 V8 v M5 V10
01 December 2010, 06:58 PM
#1
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RS6 V8 v M5 V10
Time has come to say goodbye to the old girl. 05 Impreza STI running 430bhp. SO E60 M5 or V8 RS6?
Have 3 kids and it just not quite big enough in the back for them. Fancy something a little less rattly too with a bit of refinement. So what do you guys think of these super family saloons/avants. I need the power equivalent of the STI and a quality ride of something doesnt feel like it is falling apart running down bumpy roads.
Just cant decide which one. What are the pros and cons of each car and if it was your money which one would you choose and why. 23k is my budget limit.
I really fancy the RS6 but hearing dramas about suspension issues. Had enough with the STI. Might get it remapped too. But if I went for the M5 it will stay standard.
Any decent intel on each car on pitfalls and good points will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Sean
Have 3 kids and it just not quite big enough in the back for them. Fancy something a little less rattly too with a bit of refinement. So what do you guys think of these super family saloons/avants. I need the power equivalent of the STI and a quality ride of something doesnt feel like it is falling apart running down bumpy roads.
Just cant decide which one. What are the pros and cons of each car and if it was your money which one would you choose and why. 23k is my budget limit.
I really fancy the RS6 but hearing dramas about suspension issues. Had enough with the STI. Might get it remapped too. But if I went for the M5 it will stay standard.
Any decent intel on each car on pitfalls and good points will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Sean
01 December 2010, 07:37 PM
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Well, given the weather conditions outside right now, I'd take the RS6.
TBH, I'm an Audi man rather than a BMW man. I'd always take the Audi equivalent. M3 V's RS4, M5 V's RS6.
Think the suspension problems don't affect every RS6. But Subaru had it's own issues regarding suspension, so it's pot luck if you'll get any kind of problem.
And like you rightly say, the RS6 can be easily remapped.
TBH, I'm an Audi man rather than a BMW man. I'd always take the Audi equivalent. M3 V's RS4, M5 V's RS6.
Think the suspension problems don't affect every RS6. But Subaru had it's own issues regarding suspension, so it's pot luck if you'll get any kind of problem.
And like you rightly say, the RS6 can be easily remapped.
01 December 2010, 07:41 PM
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You've got a choice between the current M5 and the previous RS6.... there can only be one option. The M5 is faster, newer, handles better etc etc. It's a bit more thirsty I would think but is worth it for that V10 alone!
01 December 2010, 07:47 PM
#4
M5 will be a better "driver's car "....... everything you want in a performance saloon.
great V10 , awesome performance and built quailty, only bad point is the fuel consumption (11-12 mpg around town !!!).
swop mine for the E90 M3 ...regretted the move since
would buy a new one but they don't make them anymore (not in V10 engine new anyway)
great V10 , awesome performance and built quailty, only bad point is the fuel consumption (11-12 mpg around town !!!).
swop mine for the E90 M3 ...regretted the move since
would buy a new one but they don't make them anymore (not in V10 engine new anyway)
01 December 2010, 08:12 PM
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V8 RS6 does have DRC issues, but some are available with good aftermarket suspension. RS6 gearbox is smoother and it has far more torque and better brakes. The E60 ride quality is better, and revved out to 8000 RPM the engine is epic. Choose on the basis of whether you need/want AWD I would say and then consider the foibles that both have.
01 December 2010, 08:22 PM
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how about a B7 RS4 Avant, I had the saloon version and it was perfect in nearly everyway!! they do have DRC issuses but this is covered by audi!! also the inlet valves tend to carbon up but this can be easily be cleaned from time to time, and the milltek system I had on was the best sounding exhaust i have ever heard, oh and they dont produce 420bhp its more like 390ish but its a fantastic all round car. not as quick as the V10 but in the real world alot more useable, for me its the subarus direct quality replacement!! gutted i dont have it anymore but needs must!! go one tack one for a tect drive!!!
01 December 2010, 08:23 PM
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I currently own a V8 RS6 and it is the best car i have driven to date (and ive driven a few) and with a simple stage 1 engine & Gearbox map you will see 510+bhp and the V8 soundtrack is awesome,even better with non res milteks.The performance is effortless and it is so comfortable and has so much space inside.It also looks far better than an M5 (which looks like every other airport taxi IMO) Suspension is an issue on the Audi RS's but the vast majority have been swapped out with decent aftermarket coilovers and uprated ARBs.The M5 also has its fair share of issues such as the I-Drive system and the Twin Vanos units which become very noisy after a while and also the DSG box is awful for short distance driving around town etc but is a lot better on spirited blasts.Performance wise there is no difference if the Audi has been mapped but the BMW is quicker than a standard RS.
Best bet is to drive both and make your own mind up,dont be swayed by the BMW fanboys on here or the Audi ones for that matter.
Good luck with whatever you choose (nice position to be in)
Best bet is to drive both and make your own mind up,dont be swayed by the BMW fanboys on here or the Audi ones for that matter.
Good luck with whatever you choose (nice position to be in)
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01 December 2010, 10:47 PM
#9
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You'll hear a lot from people who have never driven either car let alone owned one one.
In my mind there is NO competition, it has to be the M5. It is my current car and I have owned Audi RS and Mercedes AMG.
If for no other reason than that the RS6 is just sooo old, if you were comparing the current RS6 to the M5 then that might be another matter.
Idrive is no problem and I've never had problems driving the SMG in slow moving traffic it just takes a bit of getting used to. The 500 BHP V10 8krpm engine is a legend. Here is mine
In my mind there is NO competition, it has to be the M5. It is my current car and I have owned Audi RS and Mercedes AMG.
If for no other reason than that the RS6 is just sooo old, if you were comparing the current RS6 to the M5 then that might be another matter.
Idrive is no problem and I've never had problems driving the SMG in slow moving traffic it just takes a bit of getting used to. The 500 BHP V10 8krpm engine is a legend. Here is mine
Last edited by Dingdongler; 01 December 2010 at 10:51 PM.
01 December 2010, 10:53 PM
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01 December 2010, 11:11 PM
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Hardly soo old is it,its only a year older than the first E60 M5,yet the Audi has a far nicer interior,much more road presence (if you are into looks) handles better.The BMW has its good points but the I-Drive is a big problem on E60s you may have just been lucky.I had an E60 before the 6 and i'd never go back.
As i said test drive both and get a feel for them then make a decision but what ever you do make sure it has a very good warranty as the M5 WILL break and will cost you a second mortgage to fix if anything isnt covered as would the Audi only the Audi is far more reliable
As i said test drive both and get a feel for them then make a decision but what ever you do make sure it has a very good warranty as the M5 WILL break and will cost you a second mortgage to fix if anything isnt covered as would the Audi only the Audi is far more reliable
Last edited by scooby-tc; 01 December 2010 at 11:31 PM.
01 December 2010, 11:36 PM
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Theres nothing wrong with I-Drive. Its very simple to use & doesnt have you pressing button after button to get something to work.
Audi will break down as well, its horses for courses. Buy what you think will suit you.
Personally i would go for the M5 but i'd be looking for an LCI & not a pre 07/57 but your budget wont allow that.
Enjoy!
Audi will break down as well, its horses for courses. Buy what you think will suit you.
Personally i would go for the M5 but i'd be looking for an LCI & not a pre 07/57 but your budget wont allow that.
Enjoy!
01 December 2010, 11:37 PM
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01 December 2010, 11:46 PM
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I didnt mean the I-Drive is useless,infact it is a very good and clever bit of kit and very easy to navigate through the menus but the software used to run it is prone to crashing unless you have had it upgraded to the latest level of software.Its not something you can use easily whilst driving as its too distracting.Someone once said on one of the many BMW forums i frequent (or used to) that the best thing about his E60 M5 was the heads up display and he owned it for a few years,probably due to the fact he had to fork out close to 20k on repairs 
That did make me chuckle but i can see his point
That did make me chuckle but i can see his point
Last edited by scooby-tc; 01 December 2010 at 11:48 PM.
01 December 2010, 11:56 PM
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Everyone always says that you MUST have a warranty with an M5 - or pretty much ANY other performance car - and yet, I wonder if they really are worth the money? I mean, (touch wood) but both my Impreza's, my VTS, my S2000, and my ST220 have been very reliable. I've had a few problems, but nothing to get me headaches. Both my V6 pugs died, but that was largely due to poor maintenance on one of them and lack of mechanical sympathy on the other.
I find myself wondering if an M5 would be just like every other car....i.e. it'll probably be fine provided you are a careful owner who maintains it and is always looking to 'nip problems in the bud'
Thoughts?
I find myself wondering if an M5 would be just like every other car....i.e. it'll probably be fine provided you are a careful owner who maintains it and is always looking to 'nip problems in the bud'
Thoughts?
02 December 2010, 12:05 AM
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the problem with these supercars is that if something silly like a sensor fails the engine has to come out to access it.For example just before i bought my RS6 an ABS sensor failed it was diagnosed at MAin dealers and replaced at a cost of £1400 which the warranty company paid out for.If you didnt have warranty would you be able to shell out that sort of money? thats the question you have to ask yourself.For £50 a month i have 100% parts and 100% labour warranty which covers everything up to the value of the car and will pay up to £200 p/h which means i can get a dealer to repair if i wish (i wouldnt though).On a lesser car like a scooby or other hot hatch parts are easily fitted by you without the engine having to come out so running costs are a fraction of cost of the BMW/Audi so a warranty really isnt worth it
thats my take on it anyway and i am happy to pay 50 a month for peace of mind
thats my take on it anyway and i am happy to pay 50 a month for peace of mind
02 December 2010, 12:10 AM
#17
I-drive is fine , no probs on mine what so ever, some had trouble with the smg box ,
every car is prone to breakdown, one just need to buy one that is well maintain with Bmw fsh, i would not say warranty is a "must" but ihmo its worth every penny as the V10 will cost a small cars price to replace (same with the smg box).
If you were to run these type of cars , you MUST factor in the running cost
also servicing is condition base dependent ...... so if you do low mileage you do not need to service its as often .
heres mine
http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...t=IMG_0228.jpg
http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...3DIMG_0229.jpg
http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...3DIMG_0252.jpg
http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...3DIMG_0250.jpg
every car is prone to breakdown, one just need to buy one that is well maintain with Bmw fsh, i would not say warranty is a "must" but ihmo its worth every penny as the V10 will cost a small cars price to replace (same with the smg box).
If you were to run these type of cars , you MUST factor in the running cost
also servicing is condition base dependent ...... so if you do low mileage you do not need to service its as often .
heres mine
http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...t=IMG_0228.jpg
http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...3DIMG_0229.jpg
http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...3DIMG_0252.jpg
http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...3DIMG_0250.jpg
Last edited by bighead; 03 December 2010 at 05:15 PM.
02 December 2010, 12:20 AM
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its warranty direct and i havent had to claim for anything as yet but the previous owner informed me that it was a pain free experience.Just get the indy or dealer to ring the warranty company with a diagnosis and cost and they authorised it there and then.Fortunately the warranty was fully transferable when i bought the car so i have kept it going for peace of mind
02 December 2010, 07:22 AM
#22
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1) As you said the idrive is much better once the software update is done, most BMW dealers will do this for free so no problem. To be honest anybody who has problems working it, or not being able to use it without being distracted from driving should probably not be allowed to be in charge of a vehicle.
2) Looks are subjective, but I don't think many people would mistake a M5 for a 520d airport taxi (though I've never actually had a BMW as an airport taxi!)
3) When I said it was old, I meant in terms of its production cycle and technology. Put it this way, the new RS6 has been out for two years whereas the new M5 isn't out for another year. It is just that bit 'older' than the M5 and it shows.
It especially shows in the interior. I sat in one, and I'm sure it's solid but it felt like a car from a previous decade (this was in 2007, it felt like the inside of a car from the 1990s to be honest.)
4) It's also lacking a lot of toys compared to the M5, not just the heads up display (which I could not live without now) but the multi function active M seats. Don't confuse these for the crappy jobs you get on the B7 RS4, these things are just fantastic.
Did the RS6 even have blue tooth?
5) Now lastly, but most importantly, how about driver fun? How about steering feel, adjustability, driver feedback etc? This is what separates a good car from a great one, and I'm sorry to say that on the whole this where Audi fails time and time again.
My opinion (and it is just that) is that from that era, the M5 was much better by a wide margin than the RS6 and E63 AMG. This applies for people who actually like to drive, if you just want to go as fast as possible in a straight line then maybe not.
At the moment the E60 M5 is, on the whole, not as good as the current RS6 or E63 AMG.
Next year, when the F10 M5 comes out it will all be up for grabs again, however I'm pretty sure which one is going to be out in front again by a significant margin.
I'm not a blinkered fanboy btw, the E60 M5 does have its issues, but they aren't what most people who have never driven/owned the car think they are. For me it's
1) Low mpg and small tank means poor touring range, I seem to spend more time in my local petrol station than Alan Partridge
2) Lack of low down torque means driving around town can be quite boring
1) As you said the idrive is much better once the software update is done, most BMW dealers will do this for free so no problem. To be honest anybody who has problems working it, or not being able to use it without being distracted from driving should probably not be allowed to be in charge of a vehicle.
2) Looks are subjective, but I don't think many people would mistake a M5 for a 520d airport taxi (though I've never actually had a BMW as an airport taxi!)
3) When I said it was old, I meant in terms of its production cycle and technology. Put it this way, the new RS6 has been out for two years whereas the new M5 isn't out for another year. It is just that bit 'older' than the M5 and it shows.
It especially shows in the interior. I sat in one, and I'm sure it's solid but it felt like a car from a previous decade (this was in 2007, it felt like the inside of a car from the 1990s to be honest.)
4) It's also lacking a lot of toys compared to the M5, not just the heads up display (which I could not live without now) but the multi function active M seats. Don't confuse these for the crappy jobs you get on the B7 RS4, these things are just fantastic.
Did the RS6 even have blue tooth?
5) Now lastly, but most importantly, how about driver fun? How about steering feel, adjustability, driver feedback etc? This is what separates a good car from a great one, and I'm sorry to say that on the whole this where Audi fails time and time again.
My opinion (and it is just that) is that from that era, the M5 was much better by a wide margin than the RS6 and E63 AMG. This applies for people who actually like to drive, if you just want to go as fast as possible in a straight line then maybe not.
At the moment the E60 M5 is, on the whole, not as good as the current RS6 or E63 AMG.
Next year, when the F10 M5 comes out it will all be up for grabs again, however I'm pretty sure which one is going to be out in front again by a significant margin.
I'm not a blinkered fanboy btw, the E60 M5 does have its issues, but they aren't what most people who have never driven/owned the car think they are. For me it's
1) Low mpg and small tank means poor touring range, I seem to spend more time in my local petrol station than Alan Partridge
2) Lack of low down torque means driving around town can be quite boring
Last edited by Dingdongler; 02 December 2010 at 07:23 AM.
02 December 2010, 07:39 AM
#23
Not a RS6 but 
when I bought my audi 3 weeks ago the same dealer had a 08 plate m5 in , I drove that before the S6 (V10) did 30 miles in it, nice car BUT not for me , Ive now have a less power than the m5 438 bhp i think against the m5 500 ish, but for me the S6 is better (for me) , But I only use it for shopping 
(for now)
when I bought my audi 3 weeks ago the same dealer had a 08 plate m5 in , I drove that before the S6 (V10) did 30 miles in it, nice car BUT not for me , Ive now have a less power than the m5 438 bhp i think against the m5 500 ish, but for me the S6 is better (for me) , But I only use it for shopping (for now)
02 December 2010, 09:17 AM
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My Boss at work ran an 523i for 3 years. He's just changed to a jaguar XF, stating that the BMW was knackered.
This guy doesn't drive fast, looks after his car, but in the last 12 months it's been to the Garage several times.
His words were "Never again" regarding buying a BMW.
This guy doesn't drive fast, looks after his car, but in the last 12 months it's been to the Garage several times.
His words were "Never again" regarding buying a BMW.
02 December 2010, 09:41 AM
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Everyone says you MUST get a warranty with an M5, yet hardly any M5's advertised on PH/Autotrader have a transferable warranty with them. So if I was in the market for an M5, how do I go about getting one with a good level of cover at a reasonable price?
02 December 2010, 10:00 AM
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Scooby tc
1) As you said the idrive is much better once the software update is done, most BMW dealers will do this for free so no problem. To be honest anybody who has problems working it, or not being able to use it without being distracted from driving should probably not be allowed to be in charge of a vehicle.None of the dealer i am aware of offer this as a free upgrade and also they need the car for a whole day to do it
2) Looks are subjective, but I don't think many people would mistake a M5 for a 520d airport taxi (though I've never actually had a BMW as an airport taxi!)
3) When I said it was old, I meant in terms of its production cycle and technology. Put it this way, the new RS6 has been out for two years whereas the new M5 isn't out for another year. It is just that bit 'older' than the M5 and it shows.
It especially shows in the interior. I sat in one, and I'm sure it's solid but it felt like a car from a previous decade (this was in 2007, it felt like the inside of a car from the 1990s to be honest.)
4) It's also lacking a lot of toys compared to the M5, not just the heads up display (which I could not live without now) but the multi function active M seats. Don't confuse these for the crappy jobs you get on the B7 RS4, these things are just fantastic.
Did the RS6 even have blue tooth?
5) Now lastly, but most importantly, how about driver fun? How about steering feel, adjustability, driver feedback etc? This is what separates a good car from a great one, and I'm sorry to say that on the whole this where Audi fails time and time again.
My opinion (and it is just that) is that from that era, the M5 was much better by a wide margin than the RS6 and E63 AMG. This applies for people who actually like to drive, if you just want to go as fast as possible in a straight line then maybe not.
At the moment the E60 M5 is, on the whole, not as good as the current RS6 or E63 AMG.
Next year, when the F10 M5 comes out it will all be up for grabs again, however I'm pretty sure which one is going to be out in front again by a significant margin.
I'm not a blinkered fanboy btw, the E60 M5 does have its issues, but they aren't what most people who have never driven/owned the car think they are. For me it's
1) Low mpg and small tank means poor touring range, I seem to spend more time in my local petrol station than Alan Partridge
2) Lack of low down torque means driving around town can be quite boring
1) As you said the idrive is much better once the software update is done, most BMW dealers will do this for free so no problem. To be honest anybody who has problems working it, or not being able to use it without being distracted from driving should probably not be allowed to be in charge of a vehicle.None of the dealer i am aware of offer this as a free upgrade and also they need the car for a whole day to do it
2) Looks are subjective, but I don't think many people would mistake a M5 for a 520d airport taxi (though I've never actually had a BMW as an airport taxi!)
3) When I said it was old, I meant in terms of its production cycle and technology. Put it this way, the new RS6 has been out for two years whereas the new M5 isn't out for another year. It is just that bit 'older' than the M5 and it shows.
It especially shows in the interior. I sat in one, and I'm sure it's solid but it felt like a car from a previous decade (this was in 2007, it felt like the inside of a car from the 1990s to be honest.)
4) It's also lacking a lot of toys compared to the M5, not just the heads up display (which I could not live without now) but the multi function active M seats. Don't confuse these for the crappy jobs you get on the B7 RS4, these things are just fantastic.
Did the RS6 even have blue tooth?
5) Now lastly, but most importantly, how about driver fun? How about steering feel, adjustability, driver feedback etc? This is what separates a good car from a great one, and I'm sorry to say that on the whole this where Audi fails time and time again.
My opinion (and it is just that) is that from that era, the M5 was much better by a wide margin than the RS6 and E63 AMG. This applies for people who actually like to drive, if you just want to go as fast as possible in a straight line then maybe not.
At the moment the E60 M5 is, on the whole, not as good as the current RS6 or E63 AMG.
Next year, when the F10 M5 comes out it will all be up for grabs again, however I'm pretty sure which one is going to be out in front again by a significant margin.
I'm not a blinkered fanboy btw, the E60 M5 does have its issues, but they aren't what most people who have never driven/owned the car think they are. For me it's
1) Low mpg and small tank means poor touring range, I seem to spend more time in my local petrol station than Alan Partridge
2) Lack of low down torque means driving around town can be quite boring
2) Stick a set of M Sport 19" alloys (style 172 or 166) and you will be amazed how many people can see no difference between a 520d and an M5
3) The interior in every E60 is bland to be honest,ok it has nice chrome rings round the speedo and rev counter but its still very dated for a so called modern car.Yes the Audi one looks a bit dated compared to the newer models but this interior was fitted in 1998 and is every bit as up to date as the e60 IMO
4) The RS6 probably has more toys than the M5 including heated front and rear seats,steering wheel,9 way electric seats,bluetooth,voice activation,TV,Sat Nav (which is far better than the BMW Nav) etc etc
5) This again is down to personal opinion but i find the steering in all 5 Series very wallowy and not very responsive even if you have the active steering option.It was very uninspiring and didnt fill me with confidence at all.The Audi feels much sharper and precise,possibly due to the aftermarket suspension and ARBs.The Audi holds the road a lot better than the M5 which feels a bit skittish at times
all this is my personal opinion
as i have kept saying to the OP drive both,weigh up the pros and cons of each and make your own mind up.Also have a look at BMW and Audi forums and read up on both models
02 December 2010, 10:10 AM
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Warranty Direct is the best aftermarket warranty and cheaper than main dealer policies which arent available on cars over 5 years old.WD is only slated by people who have had no experience with them whatsoever.Avoid companies like warranty Wise who fight every claim
here is an interesting thread about WD for those interested http://www.rs246.com/index.php?name=...light=warranty
here is an interesting thread about WD for those interested http://www.rs246.com/index.php?name=...light=warranty
Last edited by scooby-tc; 02 December 2010 at 10:15 AM.