Dingdongler

Need to make a final decision and confirm the order on the new car to beat the VAT increase.

Original plan was to go for the 535d MS

PROS; Good power, 300 BHP, wallop of torque, decent mpg, ?low tax and good resale value

CONS; It's a diesel! I've never had a diesel before but am very open minded about it. Other thing is most of my journeys are short and multiple, ie 20 minute ones. Will a diesel even be warmed up enough to really benefit me in mpg terms

So now I'm thinking why not just f8ck it and go for the 550i M Sport.

PROS; 400 BHP and a wallop of torque, twin turbo charged V8. It's already been tuned to 475 BHP with ECU alone. Even if you took it easy and tuned to 450 BHP the wallop of torque with it means for everyday driving it will be faster than my M5. Combined with plenty of comfort for an old sod like me!
Also means my ego shouldn't get too bruised as it should be faster than anything other than proper sports cars on the road.

CONS; Will cost me £6.5k more than the identically specced 535d MS. I can stretch to that. Even the mpg should be alright because it can only be better than the M5, and unlike the M5 hopefully won't need SUL.
The real downside is the potential increased depreciation of a big engined petrol car over the 535d.

Any opinions?

Jamz3k

I would have thought it being a TT'd engine, u'd have to run it on sul to achieve claimed power figures?

It costs more, it will depreciate more and it'll be hard to sell on. Buy something frugal until the new M5 which is the car u really want afterall.

MMT WRX

A friend of my daughters has just bought a 635d, does the 535d have the same lump? If so, go with that because it fecking flies. He came round last night for a go in my new old Skyline which is obviously much much faster , but my god his 6 for a diesel really is impressive. Paddle gears which seem almost F1 quick, the whole lot. Thing is his is fully loaded and he's paid less than half the original cost new and its only done 21k, i think its an 08 (poncey private plate on it now). He's a doctor and travels 100 miles a day so it had to be a diesel.


That's why Matteyboy is always banging on about his

dpb

Think id go for the diesel , looks like youll lose far less

hodgy0_2

ding -- the basic point is this

if you will sit in the 535d constantly pissed off you didn't get the full fat version (especially every time one goes past) - then buy the 550i

choice is a fickle mistress and life is too short

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

2 years ago, I sold my 500 bhp sti, then got a 535 m sport with a ecu remap 350 /500 nice for a diesal, But as you may know Im not into rear wheel drive So changed that to a audi A6 last winter, that was a 2.7 diesal with a remap it made the same power as a 3l tdi, it was ok, But all this time I was missing a petrol engine sound , So 2 weeks ago , I swopped for a 2 year old S6 Audi with a engine sound I love , Going from your M5 to a diesal I think you will regret it, even though the 535 is not a slow car by far,
petrol engine V8 + nice .

john banks

I would not buy a new 550 even if I had money to burn. Great car but depreciation disaster and this is what really matters. Please try an RS6!

hodgy0_2

but it's not John, buying a car is an emotional choice too, if it was just about depreciation we would all be buying Golf bluemotions

my point above is that life is too short to be continually thinking you have made the wrong choice -- it rots the soul, it is not about money

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Depends on your budget, if it is such that money isnt a consideration get the 550, if it is a consideration then get the DIesel, nice dilema to have and both will be epic.

As said though, BMW will wax lyrical about the power unit, the exclusivity of that model, the power etc etc, but when you come to trade it in, it may as well be an orathapedic shoe, in lime green with a plague rat sat inside it.

Dingdongler

Thanks.

The thing is the 550i is not really my ultimate car anyway, I just thought it would be that bit more satisfying than the 535d MS. I could well be jumping into a year old M5 in 2013/2014.

Its a shame these cars have only just come out, otherwise an 18 month old 550i for £35-£40k would have been perfect.

I'm in a tricky position because I really want/need to get rid of my car. Offerings from Audi, MB, Lexus etc don't tickle me (John, the RS6 just doesn't do it for me, don't know why).
The only family sized car I like at the moment is the 5 series. So I'm sort of being forced to break my golden rule and buy a new car. I suppose then if it could well end up being a 'stop gap' car for 18-24 months or so then it should be the one that will lose the least amount of money ie the 535d rather than the 550i?

Chances are even if I bought the 550i, when the M5 comes out and I see it I'm going to get a stiffy and want it. As I said it's not as though the 550i is like my fantasy car or something, it's just a very good car.

I also sort of feel comfortable with the 535d in the sense that it's not trying to be something that it fails at. That's why I couldn't buy the RS6, it's trying to be the best super saloon in the world but it fails. The E63 AMG is better, and in mid 2011 when the M5 is unveiled at motor shows it will be slung on the sh4te heap into third place (or even fourth behind the XFR)

The 535d is just trying to be a comfortable, reliable, fast family saloon with a decent image. It manages all that well, so it's a 'succeed' car rather than a 'fail' car.

john banks

A good used E63 doesn't do it for you vs 535d at similar price? Agree hodgy about the emotional choice, but this isn't his ultimate car, so it is a practical purchase. E63, RS6, 535d, 550i are all compromises in that respect. I suppose it is finding the best compromise in that lot or any others.

I'd order them personally: used 530d, used RS6, used E63, used 550i, used 535d, new 535d, new E63, new 550i... or something like that, as then you can manage the depreciation vs how much you like the car and getting the exact spec/latest model you want.

Maybe I think differently, but were there RS6 saloons available for the prices that RS6 avants were available, I'd probably have bought that instead of the GTR. As it was, a 335i was also a very near choice. Quite different cars, but they all had a sense of value for money. A new 550i doesn't have that VFM depreciation considered, and neither does a new 535d. A new shape used 530d without the sport suspension is maybe 80% on the desirability score where a great spec new 535d is 90%. But the used 530d is massively better VFM - that is arguably the comfortable, reliable, fast family saloon with a decent image that could be a better buy?

Even if I can afford something, I don't buy it unless I think it is VFM, I want to believe that I'm getting a really good emotional return on my hard earned.

RS Grant

Since its a stop gap car that you'll never really 'love' to drive and own, I think you're crazy to consider buying new... that's regardless of your income to be honest.


Cheers,
Grant

Daryl

Yes, make your own mind up! Honestly, how can you ask other people what you should spend £45k on?

If I was thinking about spending that sort of money on a saloon car, I wouldn't even consider a BMW, I would be getting a Jag XF. Why? Is it because it's the best car available at the price? No, it's because I would buy what I want and not what someone else thinks I should!

hodgy0_2

yep good points John, I think we are all in broad agreement, but ultimately the OP is going to have to live with his choice - and not a bad choice whatever he chooses

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I think the 550 depreciation will be catastrophic.

I also think the torque that is so addictive in the 535d is not the same in the 550.

Both are great cars - the 535d makes more economic sense and is fast enough for day to day driving.

Dingdongler

John

1) E63 AMG, the cheapest are circa £70k.

http://used.mercedes-benz.co.uk/?csref=pc_approvedused

Not in love with the shape or the interior but yes for £50k would have been a good over all buy. However not possible anywhere near £50k, and at £70k there is still mega depreciation to come over the next two years.
I did seriously look into the E63, it has received great reviews.


2) The used 530d SE to me doesn't even represent a 80% satisfaction score. It won't look right and will drive like a boat. So I'll have spent £35k+ on something that from the minute I jump into it I'll be counting the minutes until I get shot of it (probably)

3) John, have you driven the RS6? I'm curious that it was a serious contender for your cash. Now i know you shouldn't live your life via reviews but every one I've read about that car has mainly put it down as an also ran, apart from the engine.

4) In your ranking, where would you put a new 530d M sport? I could save £5k on the purchase price over the 535d MS and perhaps lower depreciation(?) which might make it a better prospect as a stop gap car?

And now a curve ball. This one would be difficult as it's a bit tight as a family car but the kids do fit in and look more or less comfortable. And that's to buy a 1.5-2.0 year old M3 V8 coupe and keep it for a couple of years until the M5 is within reach. I've never driven one but if it feels like a more chuckable version of my M5 it must be quite good.
One issue is the gangster image

sti-04!!

If your going down the M3 route then why not try a 4dr M3??
Could be the answer to your problems.

Dingdongler

NNot the most useful post in the world mate. This is a car related forum so car purchase type questions are to be expected. Despite what you think I do actually have opinions on the matter and that's why I would NEVER buy a Jaguar because I don't like them. If that's how you would spend £50k then I respect your choice, but when you have £50k to spend on a car you may find that you spend a little bit more time on a choice rather than just walking into a garage and pointing at a car.
It's always easier to spend a fantasy £50k than real hard earned £80k gross cash.

john banks

E63 - you're sticking to the very latest model and that will stiff you on purchase price and depreciation. Is the old one unreliable and horrible in some way?

530d - weren't you thinking of changing the springs on the 535d anyway? Whilst it costs a little more to get dampers, the installation will be no worse to do dampers as well would it? Seriously though for a family car, used in London, most M-sport BMWs on run flats have been too crashy IMHO, is the new one that different or is it highly adjustable with the suspension pack you're getting? Perhaps you've been spoilt with your E60 M5 as it has the best ride of the entire E60 range.

For new vs new, I'd pay the £5k and get the 535d over the 530d too.

Passenger only in the V10 RS6. I was very impressed with the car in the flesh, having in the same week driven an E60 M5. It did all the family car stuff over a variety of roads, with a great interior, good ride quality and refinement, but then it accelerated up hill from 60 to 140mph along a wet dual carriageway like it was a B-road, and it had no problem at all with corners. Hugely impressive. The main thing I felt I couldn't judge was the steering feel, but I've never felt that any modern BMW was that special in terms of steering feel. The reviews of the RS6 have been quite complimentary. In my mind it fixed my issues with the E60 M5 - improved gearbox, torque and AWD traction with no obvious downsides. I can't see it being unimpressive compared to a 535d in any way. Would love to hear your opinion if you do bring yourself to try one, automotive hacks are just interested in getting the tail out when they criticise RS models. I was also incredibly impressed with the old RS6 V8, a FAR better car than the reviews said, the steering was no worse than my E46 M3 I had at that time. The sound was awesome, the gearbox was responsive and smooth, and the ride was comfortable - moreso than the M3 on 19s. It was to my mind a far better car than the E46 M3 whereas the press all said the opposite. DRC and reliability issues, the old V8 was a car I wanted to own too.

john banks

One other thing, I know the GTR doesn't have the rear leg room, but I'm fond of the 997.1 Turbo too, it beats the GTR for ride quality, maintenance costs/frequency, economy, and feels like a maniac's Dyson, it hoovers up road when driven in anger, but can be civilised if you'll fit. It could be reasonable on depreciation too. What is not to like?

Daryl

Of course I realise that it's a car forum, but you're not musing about what is available for £50k, you're asking what you should buy from a choice of two. How on earth can anybody answer that question?

Actually though, the truth is that you're not asking the hoi polloi what to buy are you? You only seem interested in what certain people have to say, as indicated by your comment about the "fantasy £50k". You have no idea whether or not I could afford a £50k car, although that wasn't the point I was making - I was trying to tell you to trust your own instincts.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems fairly obvious to me that this thread is more about boasting than it is about what car you should buy. As for the "real hard earned £80k gross cash" comment, I'm lost for words, some of us also pay tax you know!

Dingdongler

John

1) I've never driven the RS6 so your opinion counts, mine isn't worth that much. Maybe I should go and drive one.

2) The older model E63 is a 100% no no. Too old, not that good a car.

3) 530d. Yes I was going to change just the springs on the M Sport version just to get that extra bit of sporty handling. But that is to make a good handling car into a better one. As you said before it's not right to buy a car that you are not happy with in stock tune, the modding is just the icing on the cake. I have no idea what the result will be when I change the entire suspension on the SE model, maybe it will work maybe it won't.

4) 997.1. I would love to mate! Biggest problem is it is not a family car, the kids can squeeze in but not for long journeys. Also the way the kids are squeezed in at the back it does not look like the safest place to be for the kids if there was a major accident.
I can't take risks with their safety for my vanity.
The other problem is I can't go back to driving a manual car. The earlier tip gearbox is rubbish and the PDK equipped cars are only a year old at most so mega bucks.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm being awkward!

The other option is to take a gamble and hope my engine doesn't go bang and wait until summer and see what's what. Maybe pick up a used 535d MS then. Problem is I'm getting 10% off the cost of the 535D MS, in that time the M5 will have dropped another £3k?. So for it to actually make it financially better for me a 6 month old 535d MS will have to be up for sale at about £40k (rrp £55k specced). Will it be? Even then I've only saved £5k over the cost to change right now.
If the M5 incurs me any costs between now and then that £5k will be dwindled down further.

Dingdongler

I'm not quite sure what your problem is but you are hijacking the thread.

1) I am not boasting about anything. We are talking about a 5 series diesel saloon after all not a Ferrari or exotic Porsche. My posts have depreciation and value for money at the heart of them, they are not 'I've got money to burn' type posts.
If you want me to start boasting I will, but you really won't like it

2) As for hoi polloi, again I have no idea what you mean. My comment regarding the fantasy £50k was because you said 'if' you had £50k to spend on a car. I didn't assume you didn't have £50k, just you didn't want to spend £50k on a car. Therefore it's easy to say what you would do in a situation if that situation is not real and upon you right now.

3) As for trusting my instincts, I have made it quite clear that this is an unusual purchase as it's a bit of a stop gap car. I'm needing to get rid of the car because it may incur upon me big costs and so it's not quite that straight forward.

I found your initial post a little offensive. It implied I'm some sort of idiot who can't form an opinion. Your second post implies that I'm on here trying to show off which is even more offensive. I'm discussing the purchase of a diesel family four door saloon that most people wouldn't look at twice. Get a grip

john banks

997 Tip is good. In some respects I prefer a torque converter auto to a dual clutch. It has to be one car to do it all? If you're considering the M3, what about the 335i or d? Huge choice, great cars, plenty of space for the family, great stopgap. I suppose I'm just thinking for a stopgap car that your wallet will be funding heavily that desire to have the latest model, but when you come to sell it will be one in a sea of others even though now it is scarce.

Daryl, I've certainly had some useful input from Ding in my endless what car threads. This forum is very useful for hammering out the issues as there is a surprisingly eclectic mix of ownership here, surely you appreciate that having been registered on this forum for 10 years?

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Porsche Tiptronic is horrid.

MMT WRX

Nice one J4CKO

Tidgy

mmmmm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2230301.htm

SPIDERWRX

i would get a 335i remap it. (m5 quick up too 100mph) ,wait for the new M5

you will lose almost 50% in 2 year with a new 550i

hodgy0_2

are any of them any good though? the Tiptronic on my Audi is hateful, it just smacks of "i've given up trying to enjoy my (spirited) driving"

Jimpreza

How tall are you and your kids Ding? As I suggested on your boring car thread a 4dr M3 would be awesome. It looks like you may have changed your mind.

I have a 335i coupe, am 6 foot 2 and my 10 year old daughter sits behind me fine.