maff125

iTrader: (1)

I have just sold two cars, namely an audi s4 and my work van to purchase one fun sporty five door diesel which will do 500 miles a week and not cripple me in the wallet but also be lots of fun.

So i now own a really nice 2003 golf gt tdi 150, heated leather, cruise, etc very nice, also proper rapid! BUT.... it was a toss up between a golf or a 330d? so what do i do, keep the golf or sell and get a 330d?

Pro's and cons of the golf:

60 mpg! (done it this week)
Can be remapped to 190bhp and 310lbft and only two wheel drive
Looks not bad, ideally could be an anniversary
Carries everything family wise
Fairly lightweight
Handling not the best, but not that bad

330d pros and cons

Creamy 3.0l turbo diesel engine
40-45mpg
Looks i think slighty better than golf
can be remapped but any faster than a remapped golf?
will be 2001 or 2002 on my budget
Rear wheel drive
Better stock handling than the golf

So what do people reckon? get the golf gone and get a 330d or keep the golf:wonder

cheers matt

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Go with the BM, the golf is quite lardy tbh, even in standard trim the chipped golf shouldnt worry a 330d, plus its a bmw rwd fun with lots of torque

Tony

AndyLyman

iTrader: (1)

slightly off topic...

Ive just got a Toyota Avensis T180 D4d ....

180 bhp and 400nm of torque out of a 2.2 ltr car... 6 speed box and like you say these diesels nowadays are rapid... max torque at 2000 rpm !

lovin it !

Andy

maff125

iTrader: (1)

Damn 1-0 to the 330d, i have to disagree on the chipped golf against a standard 330d, i reckon the golf would have the edge once rolling, mine standard this morning got to the same marker point on a paticular part of road at 1**mph as my s4 avant!

Matteeboy

The 2001/2 330d is a fair bit slower than today's version BUT it's still very rapid. A chipped mk4 TDi might be able to hang onto it in a straight line but if a bend comes up, the Golf is history.

The mk4 chassis is pretty dire - unless you sort the shocks and dampers it'll handle like a bag of turd. I was shocked at how poor they handle when I tested one - having had a mk4 R32 which was a million times better (VW must have done a lot of work to make it so much better).

It would have to be the BMW. The Golf can't put down 150bhp/235lbs/ft let alone 190/310 - wheels spin everywhere, it rolls all over the place and the power band is tiny.

maff125

iTrader: (1)

Power band is no where near tiny on the 150 gt tdi,which is a world apart from the 130, it has front mount intercooler, strengthened internals and stiffer suspension my pulls from 1800rpm round to 4600 before you feel the need to change gear, ok, tiny compared to a petrol car but very driveable i'd say and ive had a few storming petrol cars too.

I find power to weight is killing these big old cars, like audis and bm's. My audi s4 felt reasonably quick but the remapped classic impreza i had before that felt alot quicker purely cause it weighs alot less, how heavy is a 2001 330d, 1520kg? my golf is 1350kg i think which isnt super light but when its only turning to tiny front driveshafts makes for quite a pokey little car with 236lbft standard, please someone say keep the golf! ive had 4 different cars in the last 6 months!

Matteeboy

Hmmm - the one I tested had nothing below 2500k (bad enough that I almost had a crash pulling onto a roundabout) or above 4000k. It was very rattly - the 130 is considered more refined and tuneable - only driven a Passat with that unti but I agree.

My Astra, with the same power and torque as a 150PD was waaaay more refined and quieter too.

Golf is listed as 1388kg - that gives you 108bhp/tonne.

BM is 184bhp (204 after 2003) and weighs a rather portly 1595kg (the E90 is generally lighter than the E46!) so you get 115bhp/tonne but LOADS more torque, a far superior chassis, suspension that works and a much nicer car overall.

Reffro

Keep the Golf. Not the last word in handling I'll admit, but on a commute that's not a priority. As you say, the engine is a belter and with a remap, an easy 190hp and 300lbft to keep you bubbling along nicely, with no penalty on the fuel economy.

If you are serious about the remap, try Custom Code.

stilover

If the OP wants AWD, then an Audi A4 TDI Quattro is the answer.

maff125

iTrader: (1)

I recommend having a go in a different one as mine is nothing like u've discribed, mine pulls hard from 1800, and is very linear right round to 5000rpm, if anything starts to slow at 4600rpm, and as for the 130 being more tuneable than the 150? I beg to differ, the 150 had stronger con rods different pistons, front mount intercooler over the 130, but if anything the 130 was a bit more driveable lower down the rev range, but I never struggle for power in the 150 at all, what's the best mpg a manual 330d can do at say 70mph on a run?

Matteeboy

No idea on the E46 but I'd guess well over 40mpg at 70. Even my 335d does 40ish at that speed.

Seeing as the 150PD redlines at 4500rpm, I'd be surprised if it's liner to 5K rpm.

I was a huge fan of VWs and had a mk2 GTi, a mk3 GTi 16v then a mk4 R32 - when I had to sell the R32 (vandalism issues) I tested a 150PD Golf expecting to like it - it was from a main dealer with 22k miles on the clock. It was so rough, so lifeless below around 2500rpm, so terrible around bends that both my wife and I were put off Golfs for a very long time.

Sure they do some things well - well made, nice interiors, etc but as a drivers car we found it dreadful. Tried a couple of pokeyish Fords and Vauxhalls and plumped for a new mk5 1.9CDTi 150 Astra (now sold) - it handled properly, had a much more refined engine and looked fresher too. Only now am I remotely interested in the latest mk6 Golf R but that's about it. So for a car to have put me off a brand I liked so much, it must have been pretty poor.

maff125

iTrader: (1)

I've also owned plenty of vw's, two koni'd corrado vr6's, mk2 and mk3 golfs, you must have drove a ****ter cause mine is actually quite a fun car and the last reasonable handling I had was a prodrive classic, set up with bilsteins and eibachs, anti lift etc, and it certainly aint no narrow powerbanded diesel.

Here u go, here's what evo think of the car:

Volkswagen Golf GT TDi PD 150 | Car Reviews | evo

rookymatt

iTrader: (15)

Resident BMW tech chiming in here.
Seeing as my uncle drives a 150 diesel golf, and i'm constantly working on 330d's i think i can help you out.
Ok, the golf. Think mr 335d has driven a poo one. The 150 pulls well at low revs and is a very strong unit compared to it's predecessors. They have a habbit of killing airmass meters, and the mk4's also have a horrible habbit of the windows falling out due to rubbish regulators!!
On the plus side, the turbo's seem to last and last and last. The clutches are also very sturdy.
Servicing isn't depressing cost wise.
The handling is so/so, it's a town car at the end of the day. Don't expect it to be turning out maga lap times at "the ring"
To the 330d.
Right...................................
Be prepared for high servicing costs.
The car will return 35mpg minimum in most situations and be in mid 40's (at best) for motorway cruises.
Handling is very good.The e46 chassis is responsive and predicatable.
The down side is the common faults for the suspension, which are
1. The front wishbone rubber bushes split
2. The rear coil springs tend to rust and snap with age.
3. It's quite easy to knock the geometry out by clipping kerbs, potholes e.t.c
The engine (m57)
A strong unit, with hardly any mechanical failiures i can ever recall.
However..... onto the faults
1.The swirl flaps inside the inlet manifold (used to alter betweeen power/economy depending on your right foot) They can become weak over age and snap off, as you can guess they can only go to one place once broken off - The engine. You don't need me to tell you what will happen in that situation!
2. The fuel injectors, not always a problem- Faulty ones are not cheap to replace (£100 each i think from bmw) and can sieze into the cylinder head.
3. Breathing of this engines intake system is not great in constant town driving. This will result in the car starting to spew oil into the intake track- causing oil to enter the intercooler, the inlet manifold, and cause oil leaks. (this can be fixed by replacing the breather filter in the rocker cover every 30k miles, so not too big an issue)

Nearly all other components are pretty much bomb proof on the car (as long as its looked after obviously)

I'd say go for the bmw if you are going to use it on long runs/want a better resale figure.
Oh...and the car can be remapped.
My friend works for this firm and i can vouch for them
http://www.autologic-diagnostics.com...aphs_Flyer.pdf
Once mapped- no vw will come within a country mile of you!!!!
Any more info/help needed just ask
Matt

maff125

iTrader: (1)

Cheers for the info matt, luckily i have a good friend who has worked for bmw for over 12 years and has brought home just about every single model for us to rag around!, my only concerns about the 330d is that its quite a heavy car and really like my cars to feel light footed, i know if a cars suspension is set up right then it can feel great but i was very aware with the weight of my old s4 especially on the brakes which is about the same weight as the 330.

Gotta say im really liking the golf its no where near as bad as people make out on the handling side, only when you really push it, it shows its limits but for most of the time its great. Also ive owned a few bms in the past and one was the old 'mini m3' as some people would call it, the e30 318is. It was great in the dry but downright scary in the wet, maybe i had the wrong tyres but i could only drive like a grandad in that thing, must of spun it a few times.

Also the fuel economy is a big concern for me and the lowest i could go would be 45 50 as i do 500 miles a week and only get £50 towards this, and i can get this out of the golf nailing it everywhere, im thinking 35mpg outta the 330d in the same instances?

But i do really like the look of the 330 sports and very aware of the swirl flap issues, but also like the look of the golf to be honest and mine is nicely specced with heated leather which on a cold 5 30am i like!
Still struggling about what to do, i think i need a go in one as its been a while since ive been in one

Matteeboy

Maybe it was a duffer but then I tested a Bora 1.8T sport (with 180bhp) and that was equally dire. I then tried an Octavia vRS (old shape) and that was very good indeed.

Could be that my expectations were too high after having an R32 for a year but I can usually judge a car pretty well.

Matt - you are a very handy person to have on SN!

rookymatt

iTrader: (15)

I agree that the 330d is a heavy old german (too much bratwurst me thinks) However this is why most people (back in 2002ish) chose the bmw over audi, as the car didn't feel as big or as heavy as it actually was when driving.
I you remap any diesel, it will actually increase economy by about 5-7%!!
Food for thought!
I think a test drive in both models on the same day (if thats possible) would be of great benefit for you maff. As you can compare how both drive within a close time (leaving it a day can let you readjust if you know what i mean) The bmw is a more capable car, but wont offer the economy the golf can.

Oh and cheers for the kind words matteeboy!
Regards
Matt

invisible

cool post Matt - and I love the "BMW on the outside........Subaru on the inside!". Where'd you get that?

rookymatt

iTrader: (15)

Cheers invisible, got that from the depths of my mind! I think i might have too much time on my hands

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

What was the outcome of this one?
Matt, like the price of the bmw injectors have a mate with a seat leon (06 plate) 2ltr tdi, an injector went just outside of the warranty (low mileage too, less than 30k), as a good will gesture they just had to pay the labour charges, the part was charged at £900 quid (yes, £900 ) for a replacement injector! (1!!) scary

Tony

Bonehead

An E46 330D Touring is top of my list to go and take a look at when I come to move on from my MY99 Classic wagon

I've been doing a fair bit of reading on the net on the car and I'm dead keen to try one out

ScoobyJawa

Matt, how about a similar post as you did above about the E90 330d?

rookymatt

iTrader: (15)

Tony, the injectors have gone up in price quite alot of recent months (think about 260 now!) There are new types of diesel six pots and thusly new injectors out now (made out of.....plastic, i know i know don't ask me why)
So the demand for the older ones is decreaseing sending the prices upwards!!

Scoobyjawa, i'll knock up a list of things on the e90 330d as soon as i can, work is a little hectic so it might take me a little time.

maff125

iTrader: (1)

Crikey, old thread!

Update, i sold the golf 150 diesel which i found out had been mapped by mrc tuning, banbury, (famous audi s4 tuners) and was running 200bhp, 310lbft, sorry mateeboy, this would explain why it went so well!, (clutch didnt last long though!)

I have owned a 330d sport 02 reg car now for 6 months which has the older m57 184bhp 2962cc lump and i love it, BUT the remapped 150 would destroy my standard 330d. I remember timing the golf 30-70 and got 5.6 secs, same as my old vr6 corrado! whereas the 330d takes a smidge under 7.0secs. Hopefully gonna remap the 330d soon with emaps and am hoping for 235bhp 380lbft then she should as quick as i thought they were

Luckily had the 330 checked out and it has recently had new lower control arms and has also been polybushed all round so very happy, car handles amazingly well for its weight and also has the best brakes, (bar my prodrive classic) ive had on any car

rookymatt

iTrader: (15)

Good good!
You will notice a massive difference once the bratwurst mobile has been mapped!

wrx287

iTrader: (8)

Id go for the BMW everytime. Ok you get slightly less mpg but a much nicer car to drive IMHO

ScoobyJawa

Top man Appreciated!