ex-webby

Hi All

I've been looking at a 4.4 V8 Vogue, but have just seen a 4.2S Vogue SE.

First of all, does anyone know what the "SE" signifies / whether its better or worse?

Secondly, are there any problems to know about with either once they start getting closer to 100K miles, as whichever one I buy will do pretty soon.

Cheers

Simon

scoobystiv8

4.2 is usually the supercharged version, the 4.4 is 300bhp. I had the 4.4 V8 in the discovery 3, fantastic engine shame about the rest of the car.
I think the 4.4 is far better at high miles, less to go wrong also its the latest jag version. The 4.2 is based on the old 4.0 rover engine.
I wouldnt worry about the engine too much, there is plenty of far more spectacular things to go wrong, mainly anything to do with suspension and steering. The air suspension is riddled with faults, just read any forum on either the rr, rrs or the d3. Unless you have a land rover dealer warranty I wouldnt bother its not worth the hassle or cost. You will find yourself driving the courtesy car far more than your own car.

hodgy0_2

if the 4.2 is derived from the old rover unit -- weak/porus liners is a problem

I had a classic 4.2LSE -- 130k miles and the liners went

Simon K

Like the above person mentioned, the engine is the last thing to worry about. The car has over 18 different ecu's to drive the seats, windows, etc etc. The electrics on this car is the worst IVe even seen or encountered. A mate brought a new TDV8 Range Rover, and its spent more time in the garage with faults, errors, warnings, than actually driving it.

Lovely looking car, protrays style, money, elegance, but unless its new, or has a warranty ( Tesco's does the same warranty as Land Rover, but 50% less ), then avoid.

German or Jap, rest is cr4p !

SBK

ex-webby

Hi Guys

Thanks a lot for this. This is really useful.

I want this a car that I can blat up and down the motorway in loads of comfort (as well as being nice and high up), but then also to tow a race / rally car on a trailer. I've also always fancied one anyway.

If it was just for the towing part I'd go for something like a shogun or something, but don't want anything like that as a car when I'm not towing.

The one I'm looking at now is a 4.2S Vogue SE. Its done basically 100K miles, from a main dealer, so presume it will have the land rover warranty.

But warranties don't help you when you're stood at the side of the M1 with a race car and trailer!

Its sounding like I should bail on the idea, which would be a real shame. What do you think?

Simon K

I agree. Range Rover's are lovely cars, but the reliability is pi55 poor. Landcruiser Amazon is the one to aim for. Reliable, full equipment, very lavish inside, tremendous towing abilties. Come with leather, satnav, camera's, good stereo, sunroof, etc etc.

SBK

Andy M3

My parents have owned Range Rovers for 13 years, a couple of P38's and in 2004 they bought a 4.4 Vogue, a car you mentioned in your initial post.

They do have their fair share of problems, although not as bad as some people have been experiencing. It is arguably the best car in the world to sit in whilst blasting down the motorway. Get a genuine warranty, they aren't as much as you think, and purchase a nice 4.4. Ensure it has had a front diff [recall] and everything is up to date. You won't be disappointed.

ex-webby

The opinion seems to be pretty split.

A good friend of mine has had 4 or 5 land rovers, and reckons he's almost never had a problem with them.

A friend of a friend has had 5 or 6, and although he will only have one with a land rover warranty, he loves them.

Andy, as you say, I don't think it gets a lot better than a rangie for blatting down the motorway.

Simon, the Landcruiser looks great, and will undoubtedly be more reliable, etc. But it just doesn't do it for me! Pathetic I know, but I guess car purchases are never 100% based on logic.

Simon K

Webby, :-) No probs. Dont get me wrong, a Rabge Rover is a far better looking truck that a Landcruiser, and some trucks you either `dig` or you dont.

You just have to be realistic, as at 1am, with a trailer, on the side of the M1, broken down in your Range Rover, the looks of a Landcruiser will become much better looking

What ever the truck, remember "Buy in hast, repent in leisure".

Let us know what you get, pics pics pics :-)

SBK

ex-webby

haha!!!

Very true!

Thanks Simon.. I think if I go for one, it will be from a main dealer, with full warranty.

Aparently if the car has done more than 75,000 miles, they will only put a "select" warranty on it. Do you know if this is worth having?

scoobystiv8

Select warranty is claims upto 3K and doesnt cover alot of the components that you are going to need replacing, eg suspension and steering.
We have always been loyal to land rover, weve had 5 over the past 15 years and always we have lived with the niggles and faults as have most owners. It seams that if you have a land rover you accept its not always going to work.
But the Discovery 3 finished it for us, it spent every other week at the dealers as did most other owners who I got to know in the waiting area. The cars air suspension failed on a regular basis, which at 80 mph it dropping onto its bump stops is scary to say the least. I would love to have another land rover but its just not worth the agro. Any owner who says they havent had problems is just accepting the faults and living with it. My kids were scared of the car in the end. The electronic parking brake is another major problem when iyt wont let you go anywhere, or as other owners have experienced it decides to apply the brake at speed for no reason.
You need to read the disco3,rrs and range rover forums they will give you all the info you need. Also look at the jd power survey landrover tend to be at the bottom for reliability.
The new D4 reviews are already questioning the reliabilty again.

scoobystiv8

Hers a few bits.
Problems and fixes Range Rovers What to Watch Out For
Cannot retrofit 20" wheels unless they have a Damped Steering Rack fitted,which will ensure that the intended design characteristics are maintained.

Global automotive industry news, market research and expert analysis tells us: "Range Rover sport-utility vehicles sold in the United States are being investigated by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) over complaints about faulty front differentials or driveshafts. On its website, the NHTSA said: "Consumers are alleging failure of the front differential and/or the front driveshaft, resulting in a loss of propulsion and immobilisation of the vehicle." The agency estimates that 33,000 vehicles from the 2002-2004 model years are affected. The agency said it had received 38 complaints with 17 alleging that the failure occurred while driving at speeds over 40mph. 16 consumers said the vehicle needed to be towed for repair after the failures while eight complained they had experienced two failures of the front differential and/or front driveshaft. The NHTSA has opened what it calls a 'Preliminary Examination' of the problem."

Front diff life is typically 40k - 60k miles, costs £4,000 to replace.

Instrument pack tends to last around 70k miles, costs £1,200 too replace.

Transmission usually lasts about 100k miles, costs £6k to replace.

hodgy0_2

this is the understatement of the year

I went from RR ownership (and i do love them for style/presence etc) to a LandCruiser Amazon VX

for ultimate reliability -- you only have to look at the Taliban, where stopping on the hard shoulder of the Helmand Expressway could have lethal conseqences.

Next time you look at any extreme landscape on TV whether in Afganistan, Africa or South America more than likely the car on show will be a landcrusier

two "facts" I love quoting in these discussions is that
1. the Nairobi Land Rover dealership uses Toyota LC's as recovery trucks
2. an AA man I spoke to last year told me he recovers at least 1 LR product every single shift of every sing year of his twenty years in the AA and the only car he has never recovered is an Landcruiser Amazon

but i still love the looks off the RR and disco, and if it wasn't for the need for 7 seats I may still put image above reliability and go for the RR although I am hopping my head (and wallet) would win

Tom87

iTrader: (2)

My old man had owned Land Rovers and Range Rovers for yeeeears. He admits that there's always niggles and the odd part needs replacing but I don't think anything major has ever gone of any of his. He's currently driving a Disco 2 TD5 on 99k miles, only problem he's had was a shot water pump and rocker cover gasket.

But it's too true about the reliability of Land Rovers, you would think that after all the years they've been around and their new "premium" brand, they would have sorted out reliability issues. But there is just something about their cars which makes people always come back for more

ex-webby

Thanks guys

This is really sobering advice

I've only had the misery of a desperately unreliable car once, and I don't really want to repeat it.

The AA man stat is the most compelling for me. Its just not worth that. Thank you.

hodgy0_2

from the AA mans perspective -- the silly thing was that more and more it was the electronics that went awol

the car was just immobile -- he would recover it to a dealer and they would have to "reboot" it

Simon K

The parking brake issue, my friend had this on his Range Rover, and again his wife / kids became scared of the car. In the engine he sold it. Range Rover came down from Soliholl and test drove the car, whilst driving it the inspector couldnt find the fault, and told the owner, who was sitting next to him, that it must of been in his mind. As he said this, the brake's came on and the inspector swrived the car over. :-)

Range Rover tried to fix it 5 times, in the end giving him his money back.

Trouble is, they look such great cars. The Disco 3 looks lovely and I would certainly have one, if the reliabilty was there. Hence the suggestion of the LandCruiser, as at the end of the day, no matter how much you like a car, once you loose faith in, then you never trust it, and eventually sell on.

SBK

ex-webby

Thanks a lot guys.

based on all this, I've decided against buying a rangie.

Which means, I'm going to need a towing mule, and as I won't now want that as a main car, I just want something cheap. So going to start looking for old Landcruisers, etc.

Thanks again

hodgy0_2

here you go

YouTube - Land Cruiser rescues Hummer H2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq3Jw...eature=related

tells you all you need to know about the Amazon

this one quite funny too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxDoX...eature=related

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

A mate of my dads had one, well his girlfriend did, it kind of "Imploded" at about 70,000 miles and became an utter money pit, rather than the unreliable car it was before, she now has a Lexus Sporty ugly thing.

A friend of my in-laws had a series of them, similar issues, now has a Lexus hybrid four by four.

I am spotting a pattern here....

SPEN555

If you want something that reliable why don't you buy a Lotus Esprit?

vindaloo

Used Large 4x4s from 4Car

Try that and maybe x-ref with Honest John forums and articles?

Here people will tell you to buy the fastest and the loudest Jap one.