Spooky Mulder

In my search for a 911 GT3 there seem to be many variables.

As a lightweight special, air con was a no-cost option on these cars (20kgs).

These cars also came in two specs - Clubsport - racer with fire extinguisher, cage, nomex race buckets etc and Comfort with leather buckets and a marginally more luxurious interior.

I can understand a racer having no aircon - quite of an inverted snobbery - I may be sweating but my car is light...

...but a Comfort?

Would you buy either of these cars with no aircon?

I thought I had found my perfect one owner low mileage car but it has no aircon and is a comfort edition

Spooky Mulder

It's a Mk II.

The aircon on my much older 993 C2 was fine

HankScorpio

No.

If you're that worried about the weight, only ever fill the tank quarter full, 40kg saved.

beef-on-the-bone

iTrader: (5)

as a track car????

air con would seem a bit pointless as you'd be wearing a helmet?!?!?

Spooky Mulder

I am not worried about the weight. My instinct is that buyers of a Comfort Pack GT3, even as a track car, would want air con.

My point is more about value and saleability. Over on Porsche owners opinion is divided!

jonny_693

iTrader: (5)

Just wind the window down.

Spooky Mulder

One of the reasons I come back to SNet year after year over ten years is the insightful advice that you get from everyone.

Jamescsti

If I was in the market to buy a GT3 I personally would not want aircon, it's not in the spirit of the car IMO

HankScorpio

SM, wasn't saying to you in particular, just a generalism at people, why would people (see? ) worry about 20kg of aircon when they probably keep the tank brimmed?

In context, I still wouldn't buy a comfort pack car with no aircon and am surprised people specced as such.

I would like to see some stats of opening window vs aircon, on an aerodynamic car like the 911, opening the windows will affect the fuel efficiency of the car by xx%, running the aircon will be yy%, would like to see the comparison.

Spooky Mulder

Aircon was a no-cost option on GT3s - most seemed to have ticked the box.

GT3 RS should not have aircon - why tick the box for carbon seats and spend thousands, spend 6k on PCCB and still have aircon. I agree it makes no sense - but a Comfort Pack car competes with Astons not the Clubsport.

SPEN555

If it was me and it had no air con I would want it to be a Clubsport. It does seem daft having a comfort model without air con.

Spooky Mulder

I have walked away from this car.

For me if it was a Clubsport with carbon buckets then I would consider it. Not a Comfort pack.

Shame as it was, as Nat said, the right car. But at this level if I needed to sell it I would want to be able to sell it.

hodgy0_2

in the grand scheme of things in not a too bad a problem to have

air con or no in a GT3

but sensible to have a eye in resale

Spooky Mulder

Just out of interest I have spoken to one of the leading GT3 guys in the UK and when I mentioned the aircon question he just about fell of his chair laughing.

He said that due to the cars shape and air flow management there is almost NO airflow through the cabin. He quoted a guy that fainted in a GT3 at the 'Ring as there was not aircon and the cabin was superhot. He also said that a lot of the RS (remember these are £100k plus cars) that are resold with very low mileage are because they do not have air con and the owners could not bear to have their Armani linen suits get at all sweaty

The only way to get airflow is to open the window which is not great on track.

GC8

Ive never bought a Porsche thinking about its re-sale value.....

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I suspect that at the moment, aircon or not depreciation might be quite agressive, I cant imagine it will make that much difference to the resale it being there and if people are so fussy about an extra 20kg for a road car then they need to have a word with themselves, ok if its solely used on track, competitively, in a championship but most will be driven on the road and the odd track day.

I think I would probably never notice that 20 kg extra but would definitely notice sweating like a Pig the minute it gets warm, always amuses me the whole club sport thing, for the rest of us, no aircon means poverty spec supermini as you cant buy a Fiat Panda Club Sport.

I think the out there 911's appeal massively but having never been in one I get the impression they are a bit hard to live with day to day compared to the more mainstream models, so perhaps doign without A/C might just turn a dream car into more of a nightmare along with its harder ride, lack of 4wd and track biased seating that squeezes you to death.

I bet when the consitions are right(dry, smooth road,quiet etc) , nothing delivers the same buzz but most of the time conditions arent right, you are stuck in traffic, its peeing down, the road surface is abysmal so could you live with it, have driven/been in a few 911's and they all felt easy enough to live with day to day, apart from a late 1980's Turbo on a wet road in Geneva with a hangover, that was one scary device !

Spooky Mulder

I suspect at the moment - 996 GT3 prices are rising. They have certainly hardened since the start of the year. Especially MkIs, although this is also helping MkIIs. Cars in proper colours are selling very quickly.

I have done a lot more digging and the general view from the GT3 specialists is that no air-con on a comfort spec makes it unsaleable (which is even worse than depreciation).

In terms of 'extreme' the great thing about the GT3 is that on track it is hard core (i.e. very fast and handles like a kart) and yet on the road it is supple and compliant.

I drove a GT3 at the weekend on some very rough back roads between Harrogate and Skipton and it was fabulous. It is amazing that a car that handles so well is also so usable. There again - always a Porsche trait.

There again some softy I know traded in his 996 C2 has he thought it was hard (compared to what - blancmange?!).

PS Why have 4WD on a Porsche?

jonny_693

iTrader: (5)

Could allways fit a roof scoop

Seriously though, would it be worth/possible getting it fitted at a dealers on the right car for the right price?

RobinSherwood

Not actually true, most GT racing cars come with aircon these days due to the heat in the cockpit during a race of one or two hours let alone longer races.

For example the Aston Martin Vantage GT4 car that my driver had a brief run in at Silverstone yesterday had aircon fitted and Tom commented how much easier it would make it to race even in a half hour sprint race. Now bearing in mind he was wearing full nomex underwear, three layer race suit, balaclava, helmet, boots and gloves this shows you can feel the difference.

Our race car doesn't have aircon but the manufacturer now offers it as an option and if we keep the car we may retro fit it at some point.

So no I would definitely not buy a car like a GT3 without air conditioning.

Turbo2

I understand that the E46 M3CSL was available without air-con. Here too, comfort tends to rule over bravado when handing over the 30K or so for a second hand sale! If you've got no air-con fitted to one of these I know that you reduce your potential sell-on market quite significantly.

Matteeboy

The recession seems to have bypassed this particular thread!

My twopenneth - I'd insist on aircon. Those laps won't be much fun if you're sitting in a puddle of sweat trying not to pass out.

Spooky Mulder

Is there is a recession?

The GT3 specialists say that the shape means no airflow. The race cars are having electric aircon being retrofitted to enable drivers to survive!!

Hoppy

Now sit down here sonny, and listen to Old Hoppy.

Just get yourself a lovely 911 Turbo, with that sensible 4WD for drivers that aren't quite as good as they think, and that nice comfy aircon. You know you want to; you're just in denial. Run along now, there's a good chap

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Cos its Mong proof, I am under no illusions about being a hero behind the wheel and would probably crash a 2wd lairy one, I know I can go daft in a 911 Turbo and have done on a track though it did reign in the fun a little but on a road, I think, for me, 4wd would be the way to go.

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

When (lottery win dependant ) I buy a 911 it will be 4WD WITH aircon, like J4CKO I'm under no illusions about being a hero behind the wheel. I know that my feel for a car is OK (for a bird ) from the rally and track days that I've done but I just wouldn't trust myself with 2WD and all that power

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Nat, you don't know me, I'm the least sensible person I know and driving is my passion, not an ideal combination for the road

Spooky Mulder

Well for those cynics maybe you should try it out. The GT3 has MASSIVE grip. Of course any car can get lairy, not least of which a 450bhp turbo if it is greasy and the weight is still all at the back...

...anyway I have put my money where my mouth is. GT3 is on its way chez moi. It has aircon but none of that lardy superfluous hardware

As for buying above ability - let's be clear - unless you Don Palmer, Oliver Gavin or similar - we are all buying above our ability of we are buying a Porsche, or a Subaru for that matter.