tallsteve

Hi All,

Anyone have any experience with these? Look very plain, but have the 190(ish) bhp engine out of the Celica, and probably are well screwed together.

Brother is test driving one on Tuesday, anything to look out for? Opinions on general performance / handling?

Many thanks

Steven

Fantom

I would have considered one but at 6'5" I just can't fit in them properly. Not had any experience with them but had the old Corolla Gti-16. Toyota are great but the stats make it seem slow for 190bhp.

tallsteve

know what you mean about height being a problem - I'm 6foot 6...

They do seem a bit slow for a 190bhp car - but it's all at the top end, coming on cam about 6K rpm (apparently!)

Anyone out there driven one? Had any run ins with them?

WJB

It's roughly the same stats as the Celica 190, so it will be fairly quick, but obviously not up to 4wd turbo (evo/scoob/gt4/skyline etc) or even the current crop of hot hatch (civic type r/megan225/focus st) standards.


There is a ltd edition with a factory s/c at around 225bhp iirc

They handle nicely, and will probably never, ever go wrong

sbk1972

Friends got one. They do a special edition one that is supercharged, only about 20/50 in the country. The friend who has one works for toyota, and is a senior tech, worked with toyotas for over 15 years, and cant recommend them enough.

Many toyota dealers have the supercharged ones, or can get them. Again, this chaps toyota dealership where he worked had 2, a silver / and a grey one, pre-registered for sales stats, but unsold, and they wanted to sell them for £12,500. Thats £12,500 for a year new 56 plate car, 10 miles on the clock, supercharged version.

Meant to be very quick.

SBK

tallsteve

Hmmm, the S/C one sounds interesting. I've seen them on Autotrader but they were always around the 16K mark which seemed a bit high for my Bro. What Toyota dealership does your friend work at - might be worth a call!!!

ScoobyJawa

They are garbage - had the misfortune to drive one at the Toyota on track day. The performance is attrocius - you have a 1.5k powerband from 6.2k to about 7.7k.

Read most reviews on it - gets slated....

Shark Man

Yeah the engine's power band is a royal pain in the **** for real world driving. Meaning tons of gearchanges to keep it on the power.....resulting in mid-bend gearchanges upsetting what is already a nervous chassis - which isn't exactly great to control single handed whilst stirring the gearbox.

Gearbox itself isn't the slickest of gear changes - which doesn't help.

Traction...lets not go there, the car desperately needs a LSD, only a mild one - just somthing to stop the outer wheel scrabbling for grip on exiting bends and pulling out of junctions on damp roads.

Even if you don't intend to drive the car hard its annoying, as its somewhat gutless at low revs, and due to the excessively short final drive; the engine screams at you for a 7th gear on motorways.

I wouldn't mind having a play with a s/c one though...providing they sort out the handling, fit an LSD, add a 7th gear, etc etc......



Oh, and keep an eye on the a/c. I had one on a Celica 190 (same unit) that melted the pistons due to lack of oil. £800 for a new one. Also problems with the valve lift bolts on the engine wearing/shearing. But this is mainly found on the older Celica 190s IIRC as the later engines had slightly different designs. Bottom end of the engine can develop a light knock, doesn't seem to manifest to any form of engine failure. But certainly somthing to keep an ear open for. It seems that they aren't as well screwed together as Toyotas of the past.

tallsteve

Hmmm, thanks for the input...

Bro drove one (a facelifted version - '04 I think) yesterday and quite liked it, but only really drove it around town in busy traffic so didn't get to put it into the "interesting" 6K rev range..

I've read quite a few reviews, EVO didn't seem to like it but some others weren't too bad. I do appreciate the feedback though, especially with the mechanical failures - Not exactly the toyota of old...

I'm still trying to persuade him to get a 'Teg DC2...

Shark Man

If he didn't take past 6K, then he missed out big time. First time I did it, it put a grin on my face - especially in 1st and 2nd gear.

...But novelty of it all wore off.

I don't think its an awful car; it has the right ingredients, just they aren't mixed together right.

The 'teg does it all better.

Matteeboy

The Elise 111R and Celica 190 are MUCH better ways of using that engine.

Wish they'd stuck the 190 unit in the late shape MR2 - would have been a corker.

Are Toyota planning another performance car soon?
Nowt in the range that's even remotely interesting at the moment.

Shark Man

I wouldn't have said the Celica 190 was any better to be honest.
Agree it should have been offered in the MR2, the Lotus proves how much the better the engine works in a lighter chassis with better handling and grip.


<Awaits for the Prius T-sport to be launched>

deansscooby

scoobynet not toyotanet

Shark Man

Whats the point in having an "other marques" section then?

Steve vRS

I agree. Why won't anyone apart from Mazda and BMW make a desirable 4 seat RWD, reasonably fast car!

Steve

lestippp

Tell him to buy something else, nuff said

AudiLover

just do yourself a favour and by some sort of SEAT Cupra. Done and dusted. Toyotas are crap

Matteeboy

Oh yes of course - when I need the best 4x4 in the world, I'll get a SEAT.

When I need the best handling small mid engined sports car (that doesn't break down), I'll get a SEAT.

Pillock.

AudiLover

Any SEAT is better than your crappy diesel astra

Bodgit

I owned one of the limited edition supercharged ones (250 in the UK).
I lost a fortune on it in the time that I had it. My STI drinks less fuel than it, and gives a wider grin. I would not touch a toyota again.

Do one thing before buying it, check out the toyota used cars web site and you will normally find at least 5 compressors for sale at a £13k price tag with almost delivery miles. Making it a trade in value with low milage at about 9k. This is for the limited edition one so normal ones drop in price like mad.
Everyone on the toyotaownersclub forum struggles to sell them on.
Buy a Civic Type R, better car all round and hold their prices better. Also Toyota build quality has gone downhill


Oh yes, almost forgot, they have bad gearing, 70mph in 6th and you are looking at about 3500 revs so it gets noisy and even more thirsty on motorway runs.

Bodgit

double post

sbk1972

WKD Toyota @ Waterlooville in Hampshire, thats where my friend works, and where they had a couple of supercharged ones. Ive never driven either, so not sure how they go, but the guys above have given some tremendous insight.

I love toyota, I have mkiv twin turbo supra, and a couple of single turbo supras, and the reliablity of them all is tremendous. Not good hearing that reliablity has drop, thats worrying, as I used to think toyota were the best.

Had a little race with a SEAT cupra R this morning in my M3, did quite well, so not sure what I would go for myself. Best things is to test drive a load of different cars and then make a chioce.

SBK

Matteeboy

Four out of five stars in Autocar mag and most other mags - hardly crappy.
The new Seat I hired died when it rained heavily - put me off them for life.

Wrong wrong wrong again.

tallsteve

Thanks for the insight chaps, I saw the review of the S/C'd one in Evo and it wasn't that good - effectively echoing what others on here have said.

Bro has test driven 2 now, liked the facelifted version more (he felt the change in suspension making the car roll less) but had a much bigger grin after trying an Mini Cooper S...

He has yet to try an Old shape Type R, or a DC2 Teg - this is next on his list (I hope!)

Fantom

Also get him to try a 182 if he doesn't mind french cars.

Steve vRS

They are fun cars. I ran a 182 Cup for 2 years but they are rattly, poorly bolted together and have niggley faults plus the dealers are the worst I have come across. It put me off another Renault.

Steve

Matteeboy

Renault customer "service" seems to be at rock bottom and Lagunas appear to be dying on a very regular basis.

A semi in Gaza would be a wiser investment.

tallsteve

He'll not touch a French car with a bargepole. Prefers the better jap reliability. I didn't have any problems with my old Citroen ZX Volcane, except expensive parts from the dealers, but even then I think I'd still prefer Jap or German.

Shame really as the Hot Renaults do seem good fun and good value...

He's also booked in a drive in a new shape Octavia VRS and Fabia VRS (wildcard diesel entry!)

AudiLover

its funny how this guy always has bad experiences with everything VAG excluding the VW's hes owned.

And yes the astra is crappy. Try more like 3 stars or 2.5 stars.

Matteeboy

Oh AL you DO go on and on and on.
It's literally an obsession isn't it?

I've had very good experiences with Audis, Skodas and VWs - I just don't like Seats.

A bit of your favoured copy and pasting from JC

"But its (Ford Focus) styling is now a bit wearisome, which brings me back to the Top Gear studio and that new Astra.

Part of the reason it looks so good is that it exudes a sense of genuine quality. The paint seems to sparkle as though it has one or two more coats than usual, the metal seems to be a little bit thicker, the chrome a tad more lustrous."

"Inside, the Astra’s sense of quality continues. The carpets and upholstery don’t feel like they’ve been taken from an Indian restaurant’s offcuts. The plastic doesn’t feel as if it’s been made from a melted-down Action Man. It feels like a Golf used to feel when Volkswagen made its cars properly.

Plainly I had to take this thing for a drive, so I did, and the news just kept on getting better and better. Yes, the gearbox was a bit saggy and I was alarmed at how much pressure the brake pedal needed to do an emergency stop, but other than this, all was well. The handling was particularly good — better than you get from the new Golf — and the ride comfort was spot-on too. Other things? Well, the stereo was crisp and the air-conditioning provided a jet of cold air that would have stunned Captain Oates."

"All things considered, then, this is not just an acceptable effort from Vauxhall (which would be a first) but probably the best family hatchback you can buy today"

See, I actually go and DRIVE cars rather than just rely on mags for my info.
Something most other car enthusiasts do too.