BigChris84

Evening all,

well with a house on the way, and 14k wrapped up in my scoob, it is time for it to be sold on...

my budget for a new car is 8-9k... and the two cars im looking at so far is the civic type r, and an audi s3.

I haven't driven either of the cars, but do know the basics.

I am just wondering if you were to buy either of them, what would you go for...

Things that matter:
performance - its never going to be a scoob, but i still want a bit of fun but... i will be using it as a daily driver 25mile commute to work... and then back again.
economy - mpg's? 1.8t vs 2.0 n/a
reliability - german vs the japanese, tough call in my eyes.
and insurance... no idea what either would cost, something i would look into.

Any advise would be great, especially from owners or ex owners.

The Chief

S3

dead reliable, brilliant MPG and for 4-500 quid a remap will see it hit 260bhp

BigChris84

whats the differences between the "facelift" model? and is there a big difference between the 210 and 225 model?

super6four

Both so different you really will need to drive em both. The S3 is a good reliable car, though I found it to be uninspiring. The Type-R is a little less relaxing, though I do a daily 80 mile round trip in mine, and whereas it is a little more effort, it rewards so much more on those days you are driving for yourself (or if like me you have a few nice twisties iether end of the journey). And it sounds great. The S3 is more subtle to look at which can be a good thing, a little less in your face. Reliability well I guess there will be nowt in it. Performance standard for standard the Civic will have the edge, especially in the twistie roads, though the Audi would have easier motorway midrange manners if you want to be a bit lazier . As has been said you will get more bang for your buck if you want to tune the Audi. But my Civic has been put back to N/A after it has been running a supercharger for a couple of years, and it has been mapped with K-Pro (Hondata programmable ECU around £800, though you can tweek it as and when you ad change any tuning parts), and AEM Induction and an Exhaust. She is pushing 238 n/a horses and 179 flbs. Redlines at 8.8k. And leaves my UK Spec Ver7 STI standing on all but the wetest of conditions of days .

Insurance, I am unsure on the Audi, but I pay £480 fully comp on the civic, 150 excess. I am 40. Oh that is with rather a comprehensive list of mods all declaired. Insured with Greenlight.

If I am coming across as a little biased, well I love my Civic. Done 86k since new and she has been great. I do like Audies mind, and If I was in the market for something a bit more subtle, and to just get me from a-b comfortably and reliably I may have looked that way.

NWMark

210 and 225 the difference is the ecu and one or two very minor changes. If your going to get it remapped anyway they both go upto the same output - 260bhp.

Get a facelift model if you can the dash is so much nicer, other changes include new style S badges, one piece headlights, new rear lights, they're the easy ones to spot.

Be aware that you can get 210bhp facelift models, as they introduced the facelift about 6 months before the new 225 engine. 210 are one insurance group less than the 225, 17 as opposed to 18. Although most insurance companies have the change as a year, any year 2001 and before is group 17 and any 2002+ is group 18

ScoobyDoo555

As stated, pretty different cars. The Audi drives you (quickly!), and you drive the Honda (pretty similar to the Scoob)......

The nice thing about the Audi is that it is a nice environment to be in

But the Honda is a fab car

gotta drive them both though

Dan

Pete

I,d have neither, get yourself a nice evo 5 rs for your money.....

super6four

Lo, nice car, but probably not going to be any more cheaper to run than the scoob

Moonloops

I had an 04 CTR - awful things best avoided. Good on track but useless on the road. Hard ride, shocking steering and unless you are in the right gear you will get busted by cars with more torque every time.

Not driven an S3 soo can't comment.

BigChris84

staffi - i have weighed up all possibilities of getting an evo 5/6 or an earlier scoob, but i am currently running 2 cars, a 1.1 106 for work, and the scoob for the weekend... and it just wouldn't be practical - just yet - for me to have two motors. Idea is to free up some cash, pay less on insurance and road tax every year, and have a "nice" car for everyday use.

Thing which i like about the audi is the style, and of course quality

with the civic, its back to a "hot" hatch heritage which i loved with my clio williams.

i am 23, with 5 years no claims... insurance on my jdm scoob is £900ish, and £200 on my 106... so anything less than this is obviously a plus.

as many have said, i think i have to drive both and then make a decision.

super6four

Have to say never found that personaly. As for the gear issue, well you could say that about any car if you get cought in the wrong gear. But as a change of gear takes point 2 of a second it should not be an issue . If you never want to change gear of course unless you really really need to, then I take your point.

I like to however, drive my car, not the other way around

bob r

iTrader: (46)

Very well put.

Moonloops

Well, when you are behind a saab turbo convertible and all 4 people in it turn round and stare at you as you are @ 5k revs trying to overtake.. you do feel a bit silly... the saab took off by the way

BigChris84

interesting points made...

judging by what i have seen from both cars, they seem to require work to get the most out of them... more so from the civic, but i was suprised seeing clips of the s3 that the power curve was very different to a "kick" from an impreza.

Robert Rosario

I have had CTR just over year, see previous thread with somebody upgrading from a classic. I love it and have no plans to change.

It does need to be in the right gear, but what car doesnt? Personally I like the S3, but is is a bit "magnolia" whereas the CTR is a little more attention grabbing. Horses for courses.

Obviously if S3 has been modded, it may be a different story, but for un-cultured, raucous transport, which does not cost the earth to run, and that you can live with day in and day out, the CTR is hard to beat.

LG John

No wonder you have a beef with the CTR - you can't drive it!! You were a gear too high If I was waiting to overtake something and was banking on only have a short gap I'd be holding at least 7000rpm in the S2000. The limiter on the CTR is lower but then its vtec band is even tighter. Nevertheless I'd be holding at least 1000rpm more

It frustraites me that many a honda driver seems to regard the vtec switching point as some sort of 'everything from here on up is rapid' point. Vtec is just a technology that allows the car to pull that bit harder at the top end. It's not like it switches to the high-lift lobe and suddenly the torque and power curve take a monumental jump over a 1rpm incriment and remain flat after that. A vtec car pulls harder at 7000rpm than it does at 6000rpm even if both rpm's are on the bigger can, so bloody well rev it. Seriously, rev the utter sh*t out of it!!! You should be clipping the rev limiter in ever gear and when you drop cogs you should be going down 2-3 generally with a blip of the throttle for smoothness and to prevent diff lock.

Vtec Rant Over

gillyz20let

used to have a s3, there ok but very dull and boring and drive is vary muted, not really a drivers car and the word "fun" deffinatly dont come to mind and pushed hard and they understeer worse than any scoob and the honda is going to be way more reliable especially if its done a few miles as the 1.8t vag engine dont like lots of miles. id prob go for civic.

mattbeef

1.8t vag engines will run for ever if properly serviced

Jabbasports octy vrs has over 100k on it and still going strong

super6four

I do know what moonloops means, but because he personaly had trouble overtaking a saab does not make the Civic a bad car, I is hardly 'awfull' (yes I know I am in protective mode again), I commute a lot in mine and have rarely had any issues overtaking anyone when needed, as when a lot of oil burners are running out of puff and gear changes I can keep going, engine singing away. Of course it is all about different strokes for different folks. Some want an easy relaxing and torquy ride. I have no desire however to tow a caravan so can afford to have fun in mine...

jonjo

you just seem like a bit of a pratt tbh mate..get a grip and buy an alfa 156 tdi sportwagon


im watching you

BigChris84

test drive is booked on a 51 reg s3 for friday afternoon, i have to admit i am turning towards the civic type r, simply for running costs, servicing, and the general fun factor, which i "think" the audi might lack.

they seem to be a cheaper buy also...

The Chief

Dont discount the Audi mate, tbh as standard they are a bit flat, a REVO transforms them, and makes them a very capable tool yet very understated.

I've never driven a CTR so cant comment, to me its a constant ***** out rush were as the Audi is not, the interior is lovely as well.

(ffs i'm turning into Audi Lover)

Rokerlad

How about a Seat Leon Cupra-R . 9K should get you a decent 210 bhp model with lower miles than the equivalent S3 for the cash, and it is essentially the same car bar the Haldex. The Mk 1 CTR's don't even have air con and have a bit of a chav image. Horses for courses I suppose.

LUCKO

iTrader: (3)

have heard that plenty of closet gays drive these!!

Joe whats happened? Talk To Frank?

Fabioso

Sorry mate but if you reckon the ride is too hard then you should get yourself a nice cruising autobahn machine and some slippers

Sounds to me like either the saab was seriously fettled, or you don't know how to make proper progress with a VTEC engine.......

I do agree about the steering though, I thought the feedback was ropey at best!!

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

vtec is not for me.. It's ok, I tried the s2000 for 5 months (which is a great drivers car) but there isn't enough power anyway full stop. The thing I hate is knowing there's no extra power there to be brought out with mods etc. To be honest I can't imagine the civic type r is anymore than a slug?

I've always loved turbo's to the point even before I drove I had a turbocharger someone gave me. I stripped it to bits to see what goes on inside, put it back together and polished the inlet housing and just used to look at it lol.

I love the turbo shove and I also like knowing there's good gains to be had from mods on a turbo'd car (even if I don't always do it) It helps me sleep easy at night

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

A mate of mine has a 52 plate Audi S3, which has done 70k.

Just had the 70k service, along with a cambelt replacement. Audi discovered the car needed a rocker cover gasket, major supsension work/repairs (cracks apparently due to regularly driving over bumps), replace a cracked fog light and a couple of minor things, to receive a bill of £2,500!!!!

BigChris84

as above andy - thats what scares me; servicing is going to be sky high.

James - i wouldn't go as far as saying the civic type r is sluggish, remembering the key fact i am looking at cars "within" the type r's market, so audi s3's, clio 172's/182's, focus rs's (but too much££), ibiza/leon's etc etc..

if i had it my way, i would keep the 106, and have the scoob in the garage... turbo cars are great, but when you start modding them, it defeats the object of selling the scoob, as i wouldn't imagine the mpg to be that great...

super6four

Rokerlad, the Mk1 CTr, by that do you mean the original EK9 type R? If so it did come with Air con, if however you ment the first (pre facelift UKDM CTR) then air con is available, though at a costly option.

As for the comments above and being worried about not being able to get more power out of a CTR (or an S2000), yes especially in the case of the S it can be costly if you want to keep the car all motor, but it can be done.

As far as the CTR is concerned, tuning the K20 can be done fairly easy and you have a whole host of options from mild to wild, both N/A and F/I. As for being a slug, well despite my car only having a remapped ECU, I/H/E it is still good for 239 bhp as I have said, 14 seconds dead over the 1/4 whilst hardly spectacular I'll admit is not bad for an N/A 2ltr that is fully loaded, and driven by and old man like me , and pulls away fairly easy from my STI ver7 (Ok I know that is not the fastest scooby ever, but it runs well has filter and cat back and is no slouch). I just think some people can be a bit blinkered into thinking if it does not have a turbo it cannot be quick, or tuned easily. Of course it will neaver be quite as good value in the sense as power increase per pound compared to a Scooby, or Evo say, but they would never be as far behind as you may think.

Of course the whole point is they are a very different drive, and I am glad I have the choice of both. The wife drives the scooby mostly and I feel a LOT happier she is in that car than most others.

Sorry I guess I have gone a bit of topic.

gillyz20let

1.8ts run for ever if properly serviced???? your lucky to see 130k with out the engine coming to bits, a freind of mine used to work at vw and they were always changing 1.8 20v lumps.