v8voodoo

Hi all,

Can't find them anywhere on the net, wondered if anyone here has or knows them.

Looking for usual figures on the 535d and 335d. 0-100mph, 50-70, 70-90 etc....

Fed up of getting creamed on dual carriageways in my WRX and fancying a new, sharper weapon.


Cheers,
Nige.

Andy M3

Quality post

Andy M3

Best I have found from www.FastSaloons.com - Car Details

Engine Size................2993cc
Engine Assistance.......Twin Turbo
Engine Type...............straight 6
Gear Box....................6-speed automatic
Power........................272bhp
(rpm..........................@4400rpm)
Torque........................413lb ft
(rpm..........................@2000rpm)
0-60..........................6.0secs
0-100........................15.0secs
30-70........................3.3secs
Price..........................£36750.00
Economy......................35.3mpg
Emissions....................211g/km
Insurance Group.............18

Andy M3

30-70 mph stats:

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VII extreme (VII)
4.4 secs
135 BMW 5 series M5 (E39 (98-03))
4.3 secs
136 Mercedes S class S55 AMG (221 (02 - ))
4.1 secs
137 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo Vi Tomi Makinen (VI)
4.1 secs
138 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI GSR (VI)
4.1 secs
139 Holden HSV GTS s (0)
4.0 secs
140 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VII Fast Road (VII)
4.0 secs
141 Mercedes C class C32 AMG (203 (00 - ))
3.9 secs
142 Lotus Carlton - (-)
3.8 secs
143 Mercedes E class E55 AMG (211 (02 - ))
3.7 secs
144 BMW 5 series M5 (E60 (05-))
3.6 secs

Dracoro

NO WAY does it do the 30-70 in 3.3 seconds.

Dracoro

Which is faster than the M5, I don't think so somehow. I think there's a mistake on that website (more than one methinks). The 3.3 is prob the 30-50 or the 50-70.

weasel_uk

A 335D has more torque than an M5.

Quote from another website :

"The last edition of Autogids (Nieuwe wagens en occasies: prijzen, testen en zoektertjes. AutoGids.be, de referentie - 1) reviewed the 335d. Since it's the fastest diesel in it's class, it's only competetor is the 335i. 0-64mph in 6.0 seconds ... they also looked at the 0 - 1000m sprints. The 335i needs 25 seconds while the 335d needs 25.5 seconds. As a reference the E46 M3 needs 24.5 seconds. In gear accelerations (56 -> 75mph in 5th: 3.2 seconds) are no match for the 335i since they are at M3 CSL level.

Another positive point about the 335d. It's fuel consumption is 45% less then the 335i. Their conclusion was that both cars had similar performance ... the only reason to go for the "i" would be for the engine sound."

D. Proud owner of an E92 335D.

hades

Which is completely irrelevant if you happen to be in the right gear revving the nuts off the petrol. Ok you might not be doing this all the time in "real world driving", but in a 30-70 flat out test, the M5 will be in the right gear and will be significantly faster than the 335D.

If it was all down to torque, the E55 AMG has about 100lbft more than the diesel, but benefits more in ultimate speed from the 204bhp advantage.

3.3 seconds 30-70 is serious supercar being driven flat out type territory. Whilst the 335d is a remarkable car for what it is and probably has very few rivals for top gear motorway speed acceleration for example, there is absolutely no way it is that fast in an ultimate thrash.

skinters

Totally agree. In a flat out race, horse power always rules.... Torque wins if you can't be ars3d changing down. ( Which in real terms might make it nicer to drive but we are talking flat out here)

Maybe I am wrong but can't think of 2 'identical' cars where the car with less top end power is slower than the one with more? (regardless of peak torque)

scooter(WRX03 PPP)

0-60 time = weight of car in kilogrammes / (maximum bhp of car * 0.9)

BMW M5 - weight 1814Kg, Max Power 507bhp : 0-60 = 4 seconds
BMW M3 CSL - weight 1385Kg, Max Power 355bhp : 0-60 = 4.3 seconds
BMW 335i Coupe - weight 1540kg, Max Power 309bhp : 0-60 = 5.54 seconds
Scoob Type 25 Litchfield - weight 1385kg, Max Power 415bhp : 0-60 = 3.7 seconds.
Audi RS4 - weight 1795kg, Max Power 414bhp : 0-60 = 4.8 seconds

logiclee

Mondeo 2.0 Petrol 145bhp 0-62 - 9.9 secs
Mondeo 2.0 TDCi 130bhp 0-62 - 9.8 secs.

Cheers
Lee

Andy M3

I love the reactions of people to such a thread. Diesel; quick. Surely not? LMAO

Dracoro

Personally I have no problems with fast diesels. However, do you honestly belive it has a better 30-70 than an M5?!! Clearly the data on that site has a typo.

There are other factors to consider here, for instance the number of gearchanges on the 0-62, a gearchange can lose/gain 1/2 a second. What's the 0-100 or the 30-70, I bet the 145bhp one is faster than the 130bhp one.

scooter(WRX03 PPP)

It really depends on the power curve also. 0-60 is not the most important figure to quote. For example a BMW M3 will be beaten marginally by most subarus with decent power band to 60, however after 60 most M3's will leave a subaru behind. This is down to many things such as the fact that the subaru can launch quicker.

logiclee

Yeh but the Mondeo example really shows the difference a torque curve makes to acceleration.
The cars are the same 5 door saloons, they have the same configuration and design so launch etc differences of the Subau/M3 example doesn't come into play in the Mondeo example.
They both have the same number of gear changes to 62 but the ratio's are different.
The petrol is a fair bit lighter which should give it an advantage.
The petrol has 15bhp more but only has 140lbft high up in it's rev range with less torque lower down.
The tdci has a 265lbft available fom 1800rpm which will aid acceleration just a bit.

Obviously the TDCi destroys the 2.0petrol on the in gear times but Ford do not publish 0-100 or through gear times. Remember the UK speed limit is 70mph.
The higher power petrol is a few mph faster flat out 134mph V's 129mph if that's important.

Cheers
Lee

Beef

I think the biggest problem is the number of diesel drivers suffering from what I call 'Dieselitis'. It's worse in BMW diesel drivers (the rep stereotype), and *particularly* bad in those with the biggest diesels.

Dieselitis is what a driver can suffer when they step up to a modern derv-burner, after they become accustomed to not just the powerful wave of torque available, but also being at least as if not quicker than the majority of road users. It manifests itself as a sense of unshakable superiority, and a feeling (especially in my experience amongst x35d pilots) that whatever you're in can't *possibly* be faster, especially should they decide to use that vast reservoir of torque available.

As a result, they won't pull over for anyone, *particularly* drivers of older or 'lesser' sporty cars, and if they do move over to 'allow' you past, they put their foot down so as to show off that they are in the faster vehicle. They usually choose hills as the venue to move aside to tempt you before putting the foot down.

However, suffers of dieselitis will occasionally get it pointed out to them that they are, in fact, *not* the fastest thing on four wheels. Their smug game of bait and bash will come crashing down around them as (in my case) a decade old Toyota hits them where it hurts the most, and out-pulls them uphill in a 70-140 drag. This is such a jolt from their usual reality that it can't possibly have happened, and that if they can only get back in front of you, by whatever means it requires, then they can do it again, but with success this time (failing *twice* is unthinkable), and reality will be restored to it's correct shape.

That wonderful wave of torque, just there for the riding, lulls the dieselitis suffering into forgetting that torque at the flywheel is largely irrelevant - it's torque at the wheels that is actually what drives you forward, and that the advantage gained by having so much torque is balanced out by having a smaller powerband and/or lower rev limit to work within. It is this same factor that means the Honda Type-R's are a match for much torquier turbo engines, and the fact that the in-gear pull from a diesel means that *you* may not have to change down (or indeed, may not be *able* to change down!), there is nothing to stop the other vehicle from doing just that!

logiclee

I would suggest 99% of roads users who are tempted to play your game would abandon the game well before 90mph is reached. I certainly would and it wouldn't be any different whether I was in a 530d or 911 GT2
I can't see the fuss about performance figures of 100mph+ for a road car.
I dont own a scoob anymore but in the UK if something is quicker 90-140mph WTF does it matter, you would have to be crazy to do those speeds on the road.

Cheers
Lee

Andy M3

More stats: BMW 5 series 535d E60
20-40mph - 2.0 secs
30-50mph - 2.2 secs
40-60mph - 2.6 secs
50-70mph - 3.3 secs
60-80mph - 3.7 secs
70-90mph - 4.2 secs
80-100mph - 5.3 secs

Audi A6 RS6
20-40mph - 1.6 secs
30-50mph - 1.9 secs
40-60mph - 2.3 secs
50-70mph - 2.5 secs
60-80mph - 3.1 secs
70-90mph - 3.6 secs
80-100mph - 3.7 secs

Subaru Impreza Sti type UK
20-40mph - 2.4 secs
30-50mph - 1.9 secs
40-60mph - 3.0 secs
50-70mph - 2.5 secs
60-80mph - 2.7 secs
70-90mph - 4.2 secs
80-100mph - 5.3 secs

hades

Diesel: quick. Sure. 270bhp diesel faster than same car with 500bhp 5L V8; that's the one that can't happen.

Suggest Andy's figures above clarify it. 3.3 seconds is the 50-70mph time, not the 30-70 mph time. Which is pretty quick, but not "slaying supercars which are nailed in the right gear" quick - which is what most people on here said all along.

v8voodoo

Andy,

Thanks for your excellent work supplying the stats.

Don't suppose you have the same figures for the 335 i do you..?

Nige.

Andy M3

Sorry no I have some fast petrol info though: http://fastsaloons.com/midrange.php

BMW 5 series M5 (E39)
20-40mph - 2.0 secs
30-50mph - 2.0 secs
40-60mph - 2.0 secs
50-70mph - 2.9 secs
60-80mph - 3.0 secs
70-90mph - 3.1 secs
80-100mph - 4.2 secs

Jaguar S type R
20-40mph - 2.1 secs
30-50mph - 2.2 secs
40-60mph - 2.3 secs
50-70mph - 2.8 secs
60-80mph - 3.5 secs
70-90mph - 3.7 secs
80-100mph - 3.6 secs

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Dieselitis, love it, particularly bad when suffered in conjunction with BMW syndrome.

Ones thing for sure, it doesnt do 30-70 in three and a bit seconds, I remember it being in the fives from the Autocar test, another sure thing is that the next generation BMW diesel will do it that quickly, I think basically they can chuck as much torque out of a big diesel as they want, its just having a drivetrain and drivers that can cope with it. Would love one of these, my cousins Leon 150 is quick so they must be mental, even my brothers Mondeo TDCi feels pretty quick.

davecweed

diesel can have great torque stats, but the thing is they have to use higher ratio gearbox.

Beef

You might, but I've yet to find a dieselitis sufferer who will. The blind refusal to accept that it's happening, and that if they just keep their foot in a moment longer you will suddenly disappear - in the way that you should already have done so - means that they're usually quite prepared to 'go all the way'.

Those who would 'give up' beforehand are not dieselitis sufferers, and as such aren't nearly as big an issue.

compshack

Take a look at this, E60 M5 vs E60535D

The 30 to 70 on the 535d is faster than the M5 and it's 3.3 s.

www.AutoRoadTests.com - Car Performance Statistics

MattOz

Beef,

I've clearly got/had dieselitis according to your posts. My 330d's were plenty quick enough to see "performance" cars off. Nothing like dropping down to 4th at 100 to open the gap up on those pesky old Toyotas, but I digress.

You'll always find numpties in all manner of different cars. Due to the prevalance of the quick diesel, more and more people are finding themselves behind the wheel of one.

As for slow above 100 etc, I disagree. My E90 330d would pull the increment from 140-150 in just over 8 seconds, topping out at an indicated 162 ish. I believe that they're limited to 155 as per the norm for German cars.

If your Toyota has the same horsepower as my old 330d (231bhp) then I'd expect a level playing field, and they'd be very little difference from 70-140. If it's a Supra, pumping out 276+ bhp, then I'd expect it to waste the BMW in all areas.

Matt

Dracoro

Looks like the same site as above posts (fastsaloons) and the stats are WRONG for the 30-70. The 50-70 is 3.3 so that would mean it does the 30-50 in 0 secs, now THAT'S FAST

hades

Also strange how the M5 is much faster 30-50, and 50-70 but not 30-70.

The 3.3 second 30-70 time for a 535d is an error - get over it! There's another set of misprints there as the 0-xxx times are 535d and M5, not 530i and 535d as printed.

brickboy

The fact is that with a modern high-output diesel, Mr Average company drone is now routinely driving a car that has BETTER in-gear performance than a **stock** Sierra Cossie / Legacy RS / Integrale / Evo had in the early 90s.

If you don't believe that, check the road test figures from Fast Lane which tested ALL the 4WD rally homologation weapons in 91-ish. What was regarded as supercar-quick in-gear performance less than 15 years ago is now mundane.

So of course Mr Rep is gonna have a go

Dracoro

what do you mean "in-gear"? you don't mean through the gears, you mean in 5th all the time? If you don't like changing gear, then a TD is the right car for you. If you like power and revs and changing gear (i.e what a proper sports car is) then get a car with a wide powerband that likes to rev coupled to a nice gearbox.