E36 M3 factory Special
29 April 2005, 10:54 PM
#1
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E36 M3 factory Special
For those that doubted my previous post ( http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?p=4542994 ):
I wanna go of this!
Dunno how much it would be worth though, as it must be pretty rare!
I wanna go of this!
Dunno how much it would be worth though, as it must be pretty rare!
Last edited by TonyFlow; 29 April 2005 at 10:57 PM.
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01 May 2005, 03:57 PM
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so do we smell a rat ?
666 - devils edition sounds like a load of bull to me
no don't tell me......its got a special button on the dash labelled
heimlich maneouver!!!!
......haha
as Clarkson says..."its so fast it rearranges your internal organs..."
666 - devils edition sounds like a load of bull to me
no don't tell me......its got a special button on the dash labelled
heimlich maneouver!!!!
......hahaas Clarkson says..."its so fast it rearranges your internal organs..."
01 May 2005, 05:50 PM
#9
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Why would BMW main dealer forward fake information about the car? I know they like their April fool jokes, but it 'aint April, and seeing the bloke who has the car, you wouldn't want to treat him as a fool!
I said about the car and no-one believed me, I have now posted up official documentation on the car, and you are still calling me a bull****ter - this site has REALLY gone **** up recently!
I said about the car and no-one believed me, I have now posted up official documentation on the car, and you are still calling me a bull****ter - this site has REALLY gone **** up recently!
01 May 2005, 09:41 PM
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I drive an E36 M3 Evo and with a ECU remap, custom exhaust and GruppeM induction kit can only get 350bhp (Dastek rolling road) out of it and that pretty good going.
I have never heard of this 'GT' style M3 Evo and I doubt you'd be able to get those power gains without some kind of forced induction kit (ie supercharger) which usually add ~100bhp if done correctly.
It's unusual that peak power is coming @ 6,900 rpm when the Evo redline is ~7,750rpm with peak power @ 7,500 rpm. If this graph is right then this may suggest forced induction as I believe when fitting this to the E36 M3 Evo you drop the max rev down a bit.
Could be some track built M3 or something that got onto the market.
Take it to a rolling road and for £30 check the BHP coz if it is putting out this level of power then it's unlikely your current insurance policy will be valid on this 'modified' M3.
I have never heard of this 'GT' style M3 Evo and I doubt you'd be able to get those power gains without some kind of forced induction kit (ie supercharger) which usually add ~100bhp if done correctly.
It's unusual that peak power is coming @ 6,900 rpm when the Evo redline is ~7,750rpm with peak power @ 7,500 rpm. If this graph is right then this may suggest forced induction as I believe when fitting this to the E36 M3 Evo you drop the max rev down a bit.
Could be some track built M3 or something that got onto the market.
Take it to a rolling road and for £30 check the BHP coz if it is putting out this level of power then it's unlikely your current insurance policy will be valid on this 'modified' M3.
02 May 2005, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by trancer
I drive an E36 M3 Evo and with a ECU remap, custom exhaust and GruppeM induction kit can only get 350bhp (Dastek rolling road) out of it and that pretty good going.
Surely, the above modifications to your spec would easy see the additional 70bhp needed to take it to the spec as shown! If they had the know how to do it for their racing GT cars - then perhaps some specials were made to order using this know how?
02 May 2005, 10:48 AM
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How do you get that much power out of the 3.2 lump? I heard the E46 engine was as far as development can go... and even at 343bhp they are blowing up all over the shop.
I suspect this must be a V8 or something, perhaps from the M5. I think the E46 M3 GTR has a V8.
I suspect this must be a V8 or something, perhaps from the M5. I think the E46 M3 GTR has a V8.
02 May 2005, 11:45 AM
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actually there was a M3 GT, but it used the 3.0 engine, not the 3.2 and power was only 297bhp iirc which was about 13bhp more,
they had special plaques on the dash, different spoiler, carbon dash surround,
they had special plaques on the dash, different spoiler, carbon dash surround,
02 May 2005, 11:51 AM
#16
I'd like to think it was true and I was looking forward to the info from when you first posted.
To be fair I reckon BMW could easily achieve that sort of power from a 3.2, but one would assume touring car levels of tune and no longevity for road use? Only thing is the peak power is lower down than a standard Evo engine (as someone pointed out) and in normally aspirated surely more revs (a la vtec) is going to give more power as more air/fuel = more power and revs are needed to achieve this on a normally aspirated engine. I'd expect it would need to be revving a lot higher to achieve those figures, something doesn't add up.
It's weird to think that nobody seems to know it exists though. Also that power graph looks just like someone's drawn it, it looks too neat and perfect for an actual power run.
Looking forward to the pics of the engine, but then they may not help.
To be fair I reckon BMW could easily achieve that sort of power from a 3.2, but one would assume touring car levels of tune and no longevity for road use? Only thing is the peak power is lower down than a standard Evo engine (as someone pointed out) and in normally aspirated surely more revs (a la vtec) is going to give more power as more air/fuel = more power and revs are needed to achieve this on a normally aspirated engine. I'd expect it would need to be revving a lot higher to achieve those figures, something doesn't add up.
It's weird to think that nobody seems to know it exists though. Also that power graph looks just like someone's drawn it, it looks too neat and perfect for an actual power run.
Looking forward to the pics of the engine, but then they may not help.
Last edited by jameswrx; 02 May 2005 at 11:54 AM.
02 May 2005, 04:31 PM
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look m8 don't get so sensitive, I have a m8 who is really into BMW's and he's never ever heard of this model. U gotta admit the '666 devils' edition does sound just like an April fool.
If you're so sure about it, lets see the pics etc and get some of the experts here to gives us their view.
I still don't believe it myself.
If you're so sure about it, lets see the pics etc and get some of the experts here to gives us their view.
I still don't believe it myself.
Last edited by The_Titanium_Knob_Man; 02 May 2005 at 07:48 PM.
02 May 2005, 08:25 PM
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Well, what a crap first post, but here goes...
The 'official' document has Bayerische Motoren Werke spelled incorrectly.
Furthermore, the address should say Landstrasse - or the German character for a double s which I don't have here, but certainly isn't a *b*.
Flame suit on and all that - but this thing is as fake as can be.
PS: In five minutes with google you can verify all this.
The 'official' document has Bayerische Motoren Werke spelled incorrectly.
Furthermore, the address should say Landstrasse - or the German character for a double s which I don't have here, but certainly isn't a *b*.
Flame suit on and all that - but this thing is as fake as can be.
PS: In five minutes with google you can verify all this.
02 May 2005, 08:51 PM
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I had noticed that too (motoren spelt incorrectly) but I find it hard to understand why BMW main dealer would supply that information!
Also, BMW are based in Munich and not Frankfurt, so this must have came from a subsidiary office!
Also, BMW are based in Munich and not Frankfurt, so this must have came from a subsidiary office!
03 May 2005, 05:04 PM
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To start Motoren is correct - it is the german word for Motor (as BMW is Bayerische Motoren Werke).
And yes Munich is the head office, but the word "Niederlassung" is simply a branch office - a local bmw garage, nothing more.
BMW M offers (for selected BMW CSL owners with a racing licence) the opportunity to remove the speed limiter on this model only.. and nothing more.
I very much doubt that this really occured, and if so it was a waste of money - the E36 is a very old vehicle which came with 320 PS standard, and 5 speed gearbox. The claimed 367 ps is a small power increase, but would mean the engine wouldnt last too long (as it is over the limits found and set by bmw themselves). The 6 speed gearbox they put in too would cost alot - and would be required (perhaps) to take the extra power - but this would only be needed in a race situation, in which you would opt for a dog box.
It looks like a fake - a good one,. And if it isnt, then I wouldnt like to own it.
I hope this helps,
Neal - in Miramas.
PS: if the guys want to rave about something, they should be talking about the new M5 and M6... awesome on our tracks at least!
To start Motoren is correct - it is the german word for Motor (as BMW is Bayerische Motoren Werke).
And yes Munich is the head office, but the word "Niederlassung" is simply a branch office - a local bmw garage, nothing more.
BMW M offers (for selected BMW CSL owners with a racing licence) the opportunity to remove the speed limiter on this model only.. and nothing more.
I very much doubt that this really occured, and if so it was a waste of money - the E36 is a very old vehicle which came with 320 PS standard, and 5 speed gearbox. The claimed 367 ps is a small power increase, but would mean the engine wouldnt last too long (as it is over the limits found and set by bmw themselves). The 6 speed gearbox they put in too would cost alot - and would be required (perhaps) to take the extra power - but this would only be needed in a race situation, in which you would opt for a dog box.
It looks like a fake - a good one,. And if it isnt, then I wouldnt like to own it.
I hope this helps,
Neal - in Miramas.
PS: if the guys want to rave about something, they should be talking about the new M5 and M6... awesome on our tracks at least!
03 May 2005, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by cheeseboy
...
I very much doubt that this really occured, and if so it was a waste of money - the E36 is a very old vehicle which came with 320 PS standard, and 5 speed gearbox. The claimed 367 ps is a small power increase, but would mean the engine wouldnt last too long (as it is over the limits found and set by bmw themselves). The 6 speed gearbox they put in too would cost alot - and would be required (perhaps) to take the extra power - but this would only be needed in a race situation, in which you would opt for a dog box.
I very much doubt that this really occured, and if so it was a waste of money - the E36 is a very old vehicle which came with 320 PS standard, and 5 speed gearbox. The claimed 367 ps is a small power increase, but would mean the engine wouldnt last too long (as it is over the limits found and set by bmw themselves). The 6 speed gearbox they put in too would cost alot - and would be required (perhaps) to take the extra power - but this would only be needed in a race situation, in which you would opt for a dog box.
03 May 2005, 07:56 PM
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Is there a Gt
Well yes there is-fact.
It had lightweight bonnet doors and bootlid. They are extremely rare as rocking horse ****. There are very few in the uk. And personally I feel that probably most people on here have not done there homework and purely guessed that there has never been one.
E36 M3 = 300bhp
remove cats with full exhaust + reworked induction + gas flowed and ported + plus ecu map to re-set up new changes = 400+
Believe me, it is not impossible. You can simply chip a diesel and gain 30bhp+
I know of someone who is tuning a new 5 series BMW 535d and will get around 450lb of torque, He goes to Santa pod quite a bit and is already doing 14.00 sec runs
pity for the non believers
It had lightweight bonnet doors and bootlid. They are extremely rare as rocking horse ****. There are very few in the uk. And personally I feel that probably most people on here have not done there homework and purely guessed that there has never been one.
E36 M3 = 300bhp
remove cats with full exhaust + reworked induction + gas flowed and ported + plus ecu map to re-set up new changes = 400+
Believe me, it is not impossible. You can simply chip a diesel and gain 30bhp+
I know of someone who is tuning a new 5 series BMW 535d and will get around 450lb of torque, He goes to Santa pod quite a bit and is already doing 14.00 sec runs
pity for the non believers
03 May 2005, 08:21 PM
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Those BMW doc's arent genuine someones having a joke.
Why on earth would they have put the 400+ engine of no designation in a bloody convertible if they were to carry out such a venture?
It would have to be GTR spec v8 for that power @those rpm!
The closest thing i can think of to this car is an Alpina B8 4.6 333bhp coupe, the conv were only 313bhp and went to Japan! or even further a RD K12-450bhp but thats a compact and isnt made by BMW.
Why on earth would they have put the 400+ engine of no designation in a bloody convertible if they were to carry out such a venture?
It would have to be GTR spec v8 for that power @those rpm!
The closest thing i can think of to this car is an Alpina B8 4.6 333bhp coupe, the conv were only 313bhp and went to Japan! or even further a RD K12-450bhp but thats a compact and isnt made by BMW.
03 May 2005, 10:32 PM
#27
'You can simply chip a diesel and gain 30bhp+'
You can chip my 150 bhp Saab LPT to 225 bhp or therabouts, this is because it has a turbocharger and a lot of unused power potential (light boost pressure, basically detuned), 30 bhp would be possible on a turbodiesel, even conservative for modern engines, Normally Aspirated cars dont respond to chipping nearly as well as there is no boost to increase. So the big increases and massive performance extracted from the twin turbocharged 535 is entirely credible. The mods you list are all possible but I think BMW kind of optimised it anyway so its just going to be a couple of bhp here and a couple there, removing the cats isnt possible as in Germany it would fail TUV approval, it would fail our own MOT and its debateable whether it would make much difference. Other than that it would be balancing and blueprinting but I would imagine they are a fairly well toleranced engine anyway. Perhaps its just down to wilder cams, lighter pistons and a much higher rev limit but I wouldnt have thought so.
The M3 engine as standard produces just over 100 bhp per litre which is a lot for a normally aspirated car engine anyway, BMW have extracted most of the engines potential for power output from the factory, i.e. the M3 is a fantastic car but not one of those cars you buy with the knowledge that additional power is available cheaply, BMW did a superb job and for most they are plenty fast enough, to go faster in an M3 you save weight as per the M3 GT and more recently the M3 CSL, basically the way BMW went with these special models hints at the fact there wasnt a lot more available from the engine, the CSL was sixty grand or therabouts and only had another 17 bhp over the standard M3.
I am not saying that the output of the M3 cannot be increased but getting nearly another 100 bhp stretches credibility somewhat, certainly for a road engine that is meant to last and not expect constant attention. Basically if it did have over 400 bhp I would expect it to be a bit of a pig for road use to be honest, regardless of it being mapped at 250 rpm increments, all engines are mapped like that, they dont just map idle and maximum rpm and let the ecu just make it up as it goes along, even a Ford Ka does this.
Also, do you not think that if this were a genuine BMW project there would be some prior knowledge across the motoring websites, car geeks get excited about stuff like this, people on Scoobynet and other BBS's like it are probably more knowledgeable than anyone on the planet about cars, BMW's are considered worthy of interest and a special model M3 would have passed into common knowledge even if only a handful were made. I personally over the course of a month read 15 or so motoring publications (sad git I know) and have never come across the devil edition M3 and beleive me I would have remembered.
Basically I would love to be prooved wrong but I dont think its true.
The only 'Devil' engine I have come across is the 'Red Devil' Fiat Coupe engine as fitted to the special edition LE, it comes with red crackle cam covers and is supposed to be a blueprinted motor from the factory, I suspect that its only considered bluprinted as Fiat tightened the manufacturing process up compared to the earlier engines which were appalingly built and out of balance.
You can chip my 150 bhp Saab LPT to 225 bhp or therabouts, this is because it has a turbocharger and a lot of unused power potential (light boost pressure, basically detuned), 30 bhp would be possible on a turbodiesel, even conservative for modern engines, Normally Aspirated cars dont respond to chipping nearly as well as there is no boost to increase. So the big increases and massive performance extracted from the twin turbocharged 535 is entirely credible. The mods you list are all possible but I think BMW kind of optimised it anyway so its just going to be a couple of bhp here and a couple there, removing the cats isnt possible as in Germany it would fail TUV approval, it would fail our own MOT and its debateable whether it would make much difference. Other than that it would be balancing and blueprinting but I would imagine they are a fairly well toleranced engine anyway. Perhaps its just down to wilder cams, lighter pistons and a much higher rev limit but I wouldnt have thought so.
The M3 engine as standard produces just over 100 bhp per litre which is a lot for a normally aspirated car engine anyway, BMW have extracted most of the engines potential for power output from the factory, i.e. the M3 is a fantastic car but not one of those cars you buy with the knowledge that additional power is available cheaply, BMW did a superb job and for most they are plenty fast enough, to go faster in an M3 you save weight as per the M3 GT and more recently the M3 CSL, basically the way BMW went with these special models hints at the fact there wasnt a lot more available from the engine, the CSL was sixty grand or therabouts and only had another 17 bhp over the standard M3.
I am not saying that the output of the M3 cannot be increased but getting nearly another 100 bhp stretches credibility somewhat, certainly for a road engine that is meant to last and not expect constant attention. Basically if it did have over 400 bhp I would expect it to be a bit of a pig for road use to be honest, regardless of it being mapped at 250 rpm increments, all engines are mapped like that, they dont just map idle and maximum rpm and let the ecu just make it up as it goes along, even a Ford Ka does this.
Also, do you not think that if this were a genuine BMW project there would be some prior knowledge across the motoring websites, car geeks get excited about stuff like this, people on Scoobynet and other BBS's like it are probably more knowledgeable than anyone on the planet about cars, BMW's are considered worthy of interest and a special model M3 would have passed into common knowledge even if only a handful were made. I personally over the course of a month read 15 or so motoring publications (sad git I know) and have never come across the devil edition M3 and beleive me I would have remembered.
Basically I would love to be prooved wrong but I dont think its true.
The only 'Devil' engine I have come across is the 'Red Devil' Fiat Coupe engine as fitted to the special edition LE, it comes with red crackle cam covers and is supposed to be a blueprinted motor from the factory, I suspect that its only considered bluprinted as Fiat tightened the manufacturing process up compared to the earlier engines which were appalingly built and out of balance.
04 May 2005, 11:46 AM
#29
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OK - so saying it is a fake (will get pics of engine bay etc asap) - Why the hell would a Main BMW dealer risk their reputation and falsify documents - when they are making no money from it - thats the only part that doesn't add up, I really can't see why they would waste their time making documents up!
04 May 2005, 11:55 AM
#30
'Why the hell would a Main BMW dealer risk their reputation and falsify documents'
Who said a BMW dealer did it, I could knock something up given a PC, a scanner and a letterhead in acouple of hours.
Like I said, I am glad to be prooved wrong but based on the current evidence I am (like most others) swaying in the opposite direction.
Dont want to offend anyone but I prefer to say what I am thinking rather than just agree, not that it on the scheme of things actually matters whether it does ot does not exist.
Who said a BMW dealer did it, I could knock something up given a PC, a scanner and a letterhead in acouple of hours.
Like I said, I am glad to be prooved wrong but based on the current evidence I am (like most others) swaying in the opposite direction.
Dont want to offend anyone but I prefer to say what I am thinking rather than just agree, not that it on the scheme of things actually matters whether it does ot does not exist.