205 GTi 1.9 should I?
15 March 2005, 01:59 PM
#1
205 GTi 1.9 should I?
Well it has been a few months since I sold my STi RA (missing very much, but enjoying having a bit more cash as my weekly fuel bill of £50.00 is no more), so, should I get a fun car to use?
I have been borrowing my wife's RAV 4 for the daily commute (A and B roads only), but need something that is a bit more "fun" on the twisties
I have been looking for something fun + small + still has some credibility, and have come up with a 205 GTi 1.9.
I had a 1.6 in Topaz Blue for my first company car back in 1990 and drove all over UK and Europe in it (great car).
Would the 205 be a better purchase than a Golf GTi (Mark 2)?
Any opinions would be welcome from the fount of all information that is known as Scoobynet.
Richard
I have been borrowing my wife's RAV 4 for the daily commute (A and B roads only), but need something that is a bit more "fun" on the twisties
I have been looking for something fun + small + still has some credibility, and have come up with a 205 GTi 1.9.
I had a 1.6 in Topaz Blue for my first company car back in 1990 and drove all over UK and Europe in it (great car).
Would the 205 be a better purchase than a Golf GTi (Mark 2)?
Any opinions would be welcome from the fount of all information that is known as Scoobynet.
Richard
15 March 2005, 02:12 PM
#3
This was my first car. I enjoyed every minute of ownership. I used to run a 205 web site - here some snippets you might find helpful
Buyer's Guide
1. Don't worry about the bodywork condition. They don't really rust and last for ages. The only rust you may see is at the front of the rear wheel arches and/or some sweat rust in the bottom corners of the door frames. Both of these are easy to fix by a bodyshop. Any other rust then check there are no puncture holes in the body that are letting in the damp. Front fog lamps (ie, the lower ones at the front) will probably have corroded, they all do, just get some new ones and rust proof them before fitting.
2. Take a look under the car to make sure the underseal is there and the chassis has not corroded (very unlikley!)
3. Interior should be in reasonable condition (though for this price don't worry too much). Plastic dashboard will creak but this is a standard feature on 205s (dodgy French car builders
. The leather steering wheel may be shiny - this means the mileage is real. OK in your case but if its a low miler it could be an indication that the car has been clocked (ie, odometer has been wound back).
4. Check all the lectric work on the inside especially the heater blower fan - start knocking money off if not.
5. Common sense but check the tires for even wear otherwise the tracking or wheel alignment is out. If the tires are bald then knock money off because they'll need replacing.
6. Check all the body panels line up, especially the wings and make sure the bonnet closes easily and is a good fit. Otherwise it could be an indication that the car has had a bump. Don't worry about the doors creaking when closed - this is just the door pins wearing away - easily fixed.
7. If possible peel back the carpets at the front just to check there is no dodgy welding. Otherwise it could mean the car is a cut and shut job and is made up of two write-offs.
8. OK, on to the engine. Always, always go and see the car when its cold. Don't let the seller start it before you arrive and let it warm up first. Starting may be a bit rough but should start first time - the only smoke out the back should be white. After about 10-20 seconds the car should be firing on all cylinders fine.
9. It is likely that the tick-over will be all over the place (maybe as high as 2000rpm and then dropping to below 500rpm when warm). Don't worry about this, it is another feature and is of no real concern - you can fix the low tick over easily.
10. Rev (4000-5000rpm) the engine and get a mate to look for blue/black smoke (white is fine - its just condensation). If there is lots then walk away. Mine doesn't smoke at all and its done 123,000 miles. If possible get a mechanic to compression test each cyclinder (a 10 minute job with the right tools).
11. Check for oil leaks. Old cars may leak a little around the cylinder head and sump. Nothing to worry about, sometimes it can look quite bad but its just that the oil has built up over time. If the car hasn't moved look under the car for oil puddles - there shouln't be any - if there is then the car leaks to much.
12. There should be no rust or corrosion in the engine bay except may be around the battery where it may have leaked in the past.
13. Find all the places where the engine is joined to the body (top left and also underneath) - just check that none of the mounts have corroded.
14. While looking under the car check that the rubber bellows on the drive shafts (front wheels) have not split - this may cause a knocking noise when you go round corners because the joints are worn- not serious because its easy to fix, but cost me £80 a driveshaft. While you're under there at the wheel end of the drive shafts check everything is tight and the track rod ends, anti roll bar, etc are not worn.
15. Time to drive. Try and get a friend to follow you (just to look at whats coming out of the exhaust). Firstly, find a straight road and without accelerating check that the car will drive itself in a straight line, then make sure it'll brake in a straight line. Any judder in the steering wheel while braking means the brake disks are warped and will need replacing (not a problem).
16. While all this going on listen for odd engine noises. It won't be totally smooth until its warmed up. It may also stall at traffic lights because of the low tick over (see above) but should start first time.
17. If its an old GTi then everything inside will sound like its rattling - this is normal - but it will stay together.
18. Find somewhere quite and large (eg, car park). Drive the car in progressively tighter turning circles checking for odd knocking noises from the front suspension. If the ground is slightly bumpy it should make the noises more pronounced. Could be an indication of worn track rod ends/ anti roll bars, etc. Knock $100-£200 off for this.
19. When the car has warmed up check the cars acceleration - in any gear (1st to 4th) the car should move cleanly to 6000rpm easlily (5th will take a bit of time). But the engine should really come on song around 4000rpm. Your mate should be looking for black smoke - if he can keep up!
20. Floor the accelarator in 2nd to check for a slipping clutch - the speed should increase along with the revs. Otherwise time for a new clutch.
21. The gear box will be tight when cold (it can be difficult finding gears). However it should be easier when warm. Sometimes 2nd gear may crunch (this is the synchro-mesh wearing out - expensive to fix) but not that often. Don't worry mine has been doing it for 20,000 miles and its not got any worse.
After you've bought the car get the following done
1. Change the timing belt (they should be changed every 50,000 miles) seen as you're unlikley to know when it was last done. The job will cost about £100. This is basically insurance against the timing belt snapping while driving which would mean a serious amount of head work to fix.
2. Do a mini service and change the oil, plugs and filters. The seller may have changed the oil so the car appears looked after when you go and see it but the oil filter couild have done 20,000 miles for all you know.
*** Common Problems ***
End of 4-Star Petrol in 1999
In the UK at least 4-Star petrol will be effectively banned. All that will be availble is premium unleaded and super-unleaded. This has caused much concern for owners of early 205s. The main reason for using 4-Star over premium unleaded comes down to two things
1. The lead is used for valve lubrication.This means the valve are 'soft' and would wear away with the lead. In turn this would lead to low cylinder compression and oil burning.
2. A high octance fuel is required by the engine (which means premium unleaded is out of the question).
From what I've gathered the following will apply. This lot applies to the 1.9 seen as thats what I've got - it might be different for the 1.6
Bear in mind the following
Petrol Type Octane Rating
Regular Unleaded 95RON
4-Star (leaded) 97RON
Super Unleaded 98RON
1. All 1.9s can run on super unleaded. Apparently all 1.9s have the same part numbers for valve parts.
2. Early 1.9s were meant to run on leaded - but this was before super unleaded came out. This was because the octane level of premium unleaded wasn't high enough.
3. Later when unleaded came out Peugeot said the new ones could run on super unleaded (the octane level was high) But the same should apply to the earlier ones too - becasue of (1)
4. If you run on regular unleaded the engine will be pinking like crazy (octane level to low). Higher mileage engines even do this on 4-star (leaded) petrol too.
5. However some people say their's runs fine on regular unleaded. This is probably becuase the previous owner has had the timing retarded (so the low octane petrol doesn't cause pinking) so that it doesn't pink. Or they've taken it to be serviced and the garage has noticed the pinking and retarded the timing.
6. Retarding the timing to stop the pinking when on premium unleaded turns your GTi into a 205 'Style'. That is it might as well not be a GTi.
7. Basically, the choice comes down to leaded or super unleaded. However later 205s with CATS can't take leaded
The following information came from Neville Hawkins - much appreciated as Nev has obviously payed money to test the above out.
Here's some more info for your web site. I posted this on the bulletin board [Peugeot Sport Club Bulletin Board]:
I got fed up with the price and limited availability of Super Unleaded soon after I got my 205 1.9. I therefore filled it with Premium, took it to a rolling road and got it set up so as not to pink. It was giving 98hp at the wheels. That was at about 70,000 miles. Then I read James Neill's posting about a GTi running on premium being like running a 205 style, and I got worried. I therefore filled up with Super and took it back to the rolling road. Once set up properly it gave 100hp at the wheels. That was at 102,000 miles.(The only mods are a K-&-N 57i and a Jetex exhaust (pipe, not manifold), which were put on before the first test. Now the difference appears to be fairly small, but then the extra 32,000 miles could have taken their toll, and had I taken it back the next day, maybe the difference would be greater. The conclusion is: Premium unleaded, with timing and mixture adjusted accordingly, gives less power than Super, with timing and mixture set. The difference though seems to be small and it comes down to how much money you've got for the more expensive petrol, and how much you really use the extra few horsepower. What I didn't post on the bulletin board, was that the power increase at 4,000 rpm with Super was about 5hp, or nearly 10% more than with premium.
Steve has an article on unleaded petrol over at Peugeot Extreme.
Warping Brake Disks
I went through three sets of standard disks on the front in the space of a year. Each time they were fitted by a Peugeot dealer. Eventually I gave up, bought some Black Diamond cross-drilled disks and had them fitted by A&A Transmissions (see servicing). I don't think the hubs which the discs are mounted on were cleaned down properly to provide a flat surface - so this induced the disk to warp over time. The new ones have been fine every since.
Warped disks can be recognised by excessive judder in the brake pedal or steering wheel when braking hard from speed (60-70mph). In my case it felt like the steering wheel was vibrating.
Random stalling when cold
The car would be fine once it had warmed up. But once it had stalled it would be very diffiuclt to start again (the starter motor would turn but the engine wouldn't start). Eventually this was traced to some dodgy wiring - though I can't remeber exactly were, although it was probably somewhere around the ignition.
More Random Stalling when Cold
Pretty common problem on all 205 GTis. Caused by the car going into 'warm' mode too soon and the engine stalling at traffic lights. In addition the air bleed screw can get clogged up. Unscrew it and clean it up, but remeber how many screw turns it took so you can put it back in the same position.
Hand brake Not Working
Really common when you have disk brakes at the rear. Could be either the rear calipers giving up the ghost or the cable having seized up.
Knocking Noise from the Front of the Car
Especially when going round corners slowly - This was caused by the track rod ends and link rods just wearing out (you gotta remember my car has been around since 1987). In my case it wasn't helped by the suspension springs twisting in the upper suspension mounts, they were corroded so the springs were digging in. I've had other knocking noises which were due to the rubber bushes on the driveshafts being split and all the joints wearing out. Make sure you replace the driveshaft seals at the gearbox end whenever you replace a driver shaft, otherwise it'll just leak.
Front Fog Lights Falling Apart
After a while the front fog lights corrode and basically fall apart. I bought some new ones and covered the black metal surrounds in WaxOil (spray can variety) which is also black. They've so far lasted two years with no sign of rust.
Clutch Slipping
At the traffic lights when Mr. Escort owner pulls up you go for a quick get away - it feels as though your left foot has lifted up past bit point, so you floor your right foot, but the revs climb while you're stand still. If its not wheel splin then its the clutch slipping. This means a new cluctch or clutch parts.
Difficulty Engaging Gears
205 clutch cables can stretch after a while so its difficult to get it into 1st or 2nd. I kept adjusting it (which is easy from the clutch end) unfortunately my clutch was also on the way out and was getting stiff. So while pulling on to the M6 (big weekend in Manchester that never happened!) I changed from 4th to 5th, the clutch cable snapped and sent all the gubbins straight through the radiator. So I needed a new clutch and a new radiator. Moral of the story is not to let your clucth get in such a state and don't keep adjusting the clucth cable until it gets so thin that it snaps easily..
Engine pinking
This is something that has come back to haunt me recently, its bad and is caused by the ignition being too far advanced. The older the 205 gets the worse it is.
* One solution is to remove the tube from the vacuumn advance unit, this willl stop the ignition being to far advanced when cruising.
* You can also try loads of Redex to get rid of carbon deposits.
* Moving up to a higher octane petrol (ie, super unleaded) may also help.
You may have to try a combination of the above.
Lights Dimming In and Out
Finally got this fixed, it was caused by a duff voltage regulator in the alternator. It also made the car hunt between 2000 and 3000rpm. As soon as I replaced the alternator everything was hunky dory. Now that its been replaced it a lot smoother.
'Mayonnaise' In Oil Filler Cap
Caused by oil and water 'mixing' which creates a mayonnaise type substance in oil filler cap. This degrades the oil and causes more engine wear. However more seriously is how the oil and water are getting near each other
* Could be caused by short journeys and condensation mixing with the oil. Normally a decent length journey will cause the condensation to evaporate. This has been my problem due to the short journeys I'm making at the moment. However I'd like to know if the problem is made worse by the K&N filter I have which will pull in even colder air than the normal 205 filter.
* More seriously is a blown gasket causing water and oil from the engine to mix. In this case you will get a lot more mayonnaise and it'll likely spread further than just the oil filler cap. You'll also notice the water/coolant level drop as water is mixed in with oil. You'll want to get this fixed ASAP.
The following has come from Robert Herbasz - I've removed the metal gauze fitted inside the oil filler cap. The cap use to get filled up all the time with mayonnaise gunk but now there's hardly any.
This would seem to make sense - even the Haynes manual says chuck the metal gauze filter away if it shows sign of corrosion. So as moisture causes the corrosion it is also seems likley to cause the mayonnaise build up.
Oil
Well not really a mod but there are lots of different types. Personally, I use Mobil One (0w/40). Something I've noticed is easier starting in the winter. The engine fires up quickly and runs smoothly (at least after the first few seconds). However it does seem to leak a bit more (I guess because its thiner and my car is old) but hey - its stops the sump rusting - and its only a very small amount.
The following was posted to the uk.rec.cars.maintenece news group by Trevor Jenkins in June 1998. It makes for good reading
From: zoom zoom@premier100.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Brand-name Engine Oils
Date: 13 June 1998 16:58
ENGINE OILS
There are two main reasons why oil is put into the internal combustion engine. The first is obvious, and that is to lubricate the internal moving parts and minimise mechanical friction. The second reason is not quite as apparent, and that is to act as a coolant, and during circulation, carry away localised heat from those parts suffering from friction.When purchasing engine lubricants most people look for the viscosity grade displayed on the container, e.g. S.A.E. 20W/50 or 15W/50 etc., but do not know what this actually means. Viscosity is simply the term used to describe the thickness of any fluid, and bears absolutely no relation at all to the quality of oil. When used in the evaluation of oil, the first, and lower number of the two, signifies how thick it is when it is cold, and the latter, how thin it is when hot. Ideally the lowest possible number first and the highest possible number last. Unfortunately viscosity is only half the story. Old fashioned multigrades like 20W/50's were first formulated in the 1960's, but since they first came on the scene engine design and demand has changed immensely. Furthermore, since 90% of all engine wear occurs within the first two miles of a cold start, it is extremely important to get the oil around the engine as quickly as possible. A 20W/50 or even 15W/50 Multigrade oil is actually too thick when cold, and this is why overhead camshaft (OHC) engines frequently burn out camshafts, these being situated at the top of the engine at the furthest point from the sump. Another distinct problem is that when the oil is cold and thick, it takes a lot of effort for the battery and starter to turn the engine over quick enough to attain it's self starting speed. It is also important that you should never use anything thicker than a 10W/ (and preferably "shear stable") lubricant in any overhead cam engine. Shear stable molecules are those which resist the shearing action of the metal parts within an engine, and without this resistance the molecules which make up the oil are actually chopped to bits. Consequently, in use, the oil loses it's viscosity and protective qualities, very quickly, even within as short a period as 2,000 miles. These shear stable molecules are only found in synthetic lubricants, in other words oil which has been extensively modified, by a chemist, in the laboratory. They are quite expensive to produce, which is reflected in the high purchase price, but the least expensive way to obtain this quality is to use what is termed as semi-synthetic, and is a mixture of highly refined mineral and synthetic oils.
Now if you think that this is expensive look at it in this way, by the time your engine has done around 60,000 miles using a poor quality oil perhaps at £8.00p per 5 litres, there is a good chance that the cam could need changing. If you had changed your oil every 6,000 miles using semi-synthetic, then that would have been 12 changes of oil using around 10 litres at £13.50 per 5 litres, a total of £135 spread over a period of about 5 or 6 years, according to your mileage.
If you have to replace the cam it can cost you about £160 immediately, plus other unnecessary engine wear, plus the money already wasted on the poor quality oil. But, like everything in this world, when something good is invented, there are people who want to jump on the bandwagon, and a number of poor quality synthetics have appeared. The only semi-synthetic engine oil which we use, and recommend, is MULTIVIS 10W/40. Multivis is manufactured by Morris & Co. of Shrewsbury, who have been blending all forms of lubricants since 1869, so they have plenty of experience on the subject. We have also found that after a full engine flush and changing to MULTIVIS, customers have reported a reduction in their oil consumption of up to 25%. This of course makes economic sense, and further offsets the initially higher cost of the oil. The reduction in oil consumption is brought about by the fact that the shear stable molecules found in MULTIVIS are obtained by using polymers of a very high quality, which do not lose their viscosity easily. They are also very resistant to the formation of "Black Sludge". Please see our leaflet on this subject. Similarly just because something is packaged as oil doesn't mean that it is actually fit to be put into your engine. Some so called "economy oils", such as those sold in supermarkets and discount centres, are only recycled - they have been used at least once and then cleaned; they have lost all of the protective qualities, and other additives, that oils should have.
There are problems associated with cheap new oils too. It is fairly easy to achieve a good multigrade viscosity during refining by adding a poor grade of polymer to the oil. These polymers actually act as thickeners to enhance the hot performance of the oil when it is new, but in use the oil can quickly lose the performance expected at the hot end of the scale, even within only 500 miles. KEEP WELL CLEAR - you will only kill your engine.
Don't forget that with cars that only do a low mileage it is even more important to change the oil regularly as this type of motoring tends to lead to the choke being used a lot more frequently and the rich mixture that this produces leads to the engine oil being contaminated turning it to sludge a lot quicker than normal.
Other additives that are put in quality oils are as follows:-
Anti-Oxidants - Reduces the tendency of the oil to oxidise at high temperatures, and resists the formation of gums and lacquers.
Anti-Emulsifier - This is used to minimise the oil's hygroscopic (water absorbing) action. This water is produced by condensation in the cooler running parts of the engine, resulting in a white mayonnaise forming in the filler, breathers and rocker cover.
Anti-Foam - To prevent frothing and aeration of the oil, most important in engines fitted with hydraulic tappets.
Anti-Sludge - Counters the formation of that black tar like substance called "black sludge".
Anti-Wear - Being difficult to maintain a coating of oil on initial start up, these provide a chemical coating or boundary layer on metal surfaces.
Detergent - Has the property of keeping the engine components clean.
Dispersants - Helps to keep impurities in suspension, and neutralise harmful acids which are produced by combustion and also acts as an anti-corrosion additive.
Friction Modifiers - A new technology, improves the friction characteristics of oil.
Pour Point Depressants - All mineral oils contain paraffin wax which solidifies at low temperatures, without this additive oil would have the consistency of grease at 20o C.
Viscosity Index Modifiers - These are added to raise the value of the base oil to prevent the oil becoming too thin when hot. Synthetic oils have a naturally high value.
So as you can see oil is not just oil, much research goes into producing a good quality lubricant. When buying oil it is most important to look for the API (American Petroleum Institute) specification. At the time of writing the current spec. is "SH" (API.SH). Most of well known and advertised oils either do not come up to the SH specification or are not synthetic. This API.SH specification indicates that the oil meets the requirements in it's resistance to the formation of "black sludge", replacing API.SG, the earlier API.SF and the even earlier API SE. It should be noted however that buying from the vehicle main dealer does not guarantee that you will be getting a good quality oil or one to the to the latest specifications, indeed I do not know of any dealer, discount centre, service centre or any other supplier of oils, that would give you the advice printed here. Most of them either don't know or if they do don't care, and are only interested in making a sale.
An finally a word about oil pressure. Most people, including mechanics, believe that high oil pressure is the ideal - this is a total fallacy. Oil pressure is not at all important, OIL FLOW is, but flow is more difficult to measure than pressure. High oil pressure may only be circulating oil past the oil pressure relief valve and straight back to the sump, which is a fat lot of good. As long as oil has enough film strength to support the loads generated upon it, then oil pressure is unimportant. So again a good quality oil wins hands down.
Trevor Jenkins,
Email at zoom@premier100.demon.co.uk
Electrotune; the U.K's most advanced moble tuning service.
The difficult we do straight away, the impossible takes a little longer.
"What? Fix this? Sorry my mate, me name's Trevor not Paul Daniels"
Jammed Oil Filler Cap
The following has come from Robert Herbasz - Your probably aware it's very difficult to remove the oil filler cap on the 205 when the engine is cold. To ease the problem remove one of the 2 'o' rings fitted to the oil filler cap. I've removed the bottom one.
Knocking from the Rear
My car suffered from this for sometime, I thought it was the suspension though never got it checked out. The noise always occured when chucking the car hard round corners. It turned out that the rear sub frame mounts had gone (sounds horrendous but isn't). They're just rubber stoppers really - cost about £20 - that had perished so it was metal against metal. The best way to tell if they've gone is to jack the rear of the car up. The rear subframe will hang down to far if the mounts have gone.
Buyer's Guide
1. Don't worry about the bodywork condition. They don't really rust and last for ages. The only rust you may see is at the front of the rear wheel arches and/or some sweat rust in the bottom corners of the door frames. Both of these are easy to fix by a bodyshop. Any other rust then check there are no puncture holes in the body that are letting in the damp. Front fog lamps (ie, the lower ones at the front) will probably have corroded, they all do, just get some new ones and rust proof them before fitting.
2. Take a look under the car to make sure the underseal is there and the chassis has not corroded (very unlikley!)
3. Interior should be in reasonable condition (though for this price don't worry too much). Plastic dashboard will creak but this is a standard feature on 205s (dodgy French car builders
. The leather steering wheel may be shiny - this means the mileage is real. OK in your case but if its a low miler it could be an indication that the car has been clocked (ie, odometer has been wound back).4. Check all the lectric work on the inside especially the heater blower fan - start knocking money off if not.
5. Common sense but check the tires for even wear otherwise the tracking or wheel alignment is out. If the tires are bald then knock money off because they'll need replacing.
6. Check all the body panels line up, especially the wings and make sure the bonnet closes easily and is a good fit. Otherwise it could be an indication that the car has had a bump. Don't worry about the doors creaking when closed - this is just the door pins wearing away - easily fixed.
7. If possible peel back the carpets at the front just to check there is no dodgy welding. Otherwise it could mean the car is a cut and shut job and is made up of two write-offs.
8. OK, on to the engine. Always, always go and see the car when its cold. Don't let the seller start it before you arrive and let it warm up first. Starting may be a bit rough but should start first time - the only smoke out the back should be white. After about 10-20 seconds the car should be firing on all cylinders fine.
9. It is likely that the tick-over will be all over the place (maybe as high as 2000rpm and then dropping to below 500rpm when warm). Don't worry about this, it is another feature and is of no real concern - you can fix the low tick over easily.
10. Rev (4000-5000rpm) the engine and get a mate to look for blue/black smoke (white is fine - its just condensation). If there is lots then walk away. Mine doesn't smoke at all and its done 123,000 miles. If possible get a mechanic to compression test each cyclinder (a 10 minute job with the right tools).
11. Check for oil leaks. Old cars may leak a little around the cylinder head and sump. Nothing to worry about, sometimes it can look quite bad but its just that the oil has built up over time. If the car hasn't moved look under the car for oil puddles - there shouln't be any - if there is then the car leaks to much.
12. There should be no rust or corrosion in the engine bay except may be around the battery where it may have leaked in the past.
13. Find all the places where the engine is joined to the body (top left and also underneath) - just check that none of the mounts have corroded.
14. While looking under the car check that the rubber bellows on the drive shafts (front wheels) have not split - this may cause a knocking noise when you go round corners because the joints are worn- not serious because its easy to fix, but cost me £80 a driveshaft. While you're under there at the wheel end of the drive shafts check everything is tight and the track rod ends, anti roll bar, etc are not worn.
15. Time to drive. Try and get a friend to follow you (just to look at whats coming out of the exhaust). Firstly, find a straight road and without accelerating check that the car will drive itself in a straight line, then make sure it'll brake in a straight line. Any judder in the steering wheel while braking means the brake disks are warped and will need replacing (not a problem).
16. While all this going on listen for odd engine noises. It won't be totally smooth until its warmed up. It may also stall at traffic lights because of the low tick over (see above) but should start first time.
17. If its an old GTi then everything inside will sound like its rattling - this is normal - but it will stay together.
18. Find somewhere quite and large (eg, car park). Drive the car in progressively tighter turning circles checking for odd knocking noises from the front suspension. If the ground is slightly bumpy it should make the noises more pronounced. Could be an indication of worn track rod ends/ anti roll bars, etc. Knock $100-£200 off for this.
19. When the car has warmed up check the cars acceleration - in any gear (1st to 4th) the car should move cleanly to 6000rpm easlily (5th will take a bit of time). But the engine should really come on song around 4000rpm. Your mate should be looking for black smoke - if he can keep up!
20. Floor the accelarator in 2nd to check for a slipping clutch - the speed should increase along with the revs. Otherwise time for a new clutch.
21. The gear box will be tight when cold (it can be difficult finding gears). However it should be easier when warm. Sometimes 2nd gear may crunch (this is the synchro-mesh wearing out - expensive to fix) but not that often. Don't worry mine has been doing it for 20,000 miles and its not got any worse.
After you've bought the car get the following done
1. Change the timing belt (they should be changed every 50,000 miles) seen as you're unlikley to know when it was last done. The job will cost about £100. This is basically insurance against the timing belt snapping while driving which would mean a serious amount of head work to fix.
2. Do a mini service and change the oil, plugs and filters. The seller may have changed the oil so the car appears looked after when you go and see it but the oil filter couild have done 20,000 miles for all you know.
*** Common Problems ***
End of 4-Star Petrol in 1999
In the UK at least 4-Star petrol will be effectively banned. All that will be availble is premium unleaded and super-unleaded. This has caused much concern for owners of early 205s. The main reason for using 4-Star over premium unleaded comes down to two things
1. The lead is used for valve lubrication.This means the valve are 'soft' and would wear away with the lead. In turn this would lead to low cylinder compression and oil burning.
2. A high octance fuel is required by the engine (which means premium unleaded is out of the question).
From what I've gathered the following will apply. This lot applies to the 1.9 seen as thats what I've got - it might be different for the 1.6
Bear in mind the following
Petrol Type Octane Rating
Regular Unleaded 95RON
4-Star (leaded) 97RON
Super Unleaded 98RON
1. All 1.9s can run on super unleaded. Apparently all 1.9s have the same part numbers for valve parts.
2. Early 1.9s were meant to run on leaded - but this was before super unleaded came out. This was because the octane level of premium unleaded wasn't high enough.
3. Later when unleaded came out Peugeot said the new ones could run on super unleaded (the octane level was high) But the same should apply to the earlier ones too - becasue of (1)
4. If you run on regular unleaded the engine will be pinking like crazy (octane level to low). Higher mileage engines even do this on 4-star (leaded) petrol too.
5. However some people say their's runs fine on regular unleaded. This is probably becuase the previous owner has had the timing retarded (so the low octane petrol doesn't cause pinking) so that it doesn't pink. Or they've taken it to be serviced and the garage has noticed the pinking and retarded the timing.
6. Retarding the timing to stop the pinking when on premium unleaded turns your GTi into a 205 'Style'. That is it might as well not be a GTi.
7. Basically, the choice comes down to leaded or super unleaded. However later 205s with CATS can't take leaded
The following information came from Neville Hawkins - much appreciated as Nev has obviously payed money to test the above out.
Here's some more info for your web site. I posted this on the bulletin board [Peugeot Sport Club Bulletin Board]:
I got fed up with the price and limited availability of Super Unleaded soon after I got my 205 1.9. I therefore filled it with Premium, took it to a rolling road and got it set up so as not to pink. It was giving 98hp at the wheels. That was at about 70,000 miles. Then I read James Neill's posting about a GTi running on premium being like running a 205 style, and I got worried. I therefore filled up with Super and took it back to the rolling road. Once set up properly it gave 100hp at the wheels. That was at 102,000 miles.(The only mods are a K-&-N 57i and a Jetex exhaust (pipe, not manifold), which were put on before the first test. Now the difference appears to be fairly small, but then the extra 32,000 miles could have taken their toll, and had I taken it back the next day, maybe the difference would be greater. The conclusion is: Premium unleaded, with timing and mixture adjusted accordingly, gives less power than Super, with timing and mixture set. The difference though seems to be small and it comes down to how much money you've got for the more expensive petrol, and how much you really use the extra few horsepower. What I didn't post on the bulletin board, was that the power increase at 4,000 rpm with Super was about 5hp, or nearly 10% more than with premium.
Steve has an article on unleaded petrol over at Peugeot Extreme.
Warping Brake Disks
I went through three sets of standard disks on the front in the space of a year. Each time they were fitted by a Peugeot dealer. Eventually I gave up, bought some Black Diamond cross-drilled disks and had them fitted by A&A Transmissions (see servicing). I don't think the hubs which the discs are mounted on were cleaned down properly to provide a flat surface - so this induced the disk to warp over time. The new ones have been fine every since.
Warped disks can be recognised by excessive judder in the brake pedal or steering wheel when braking hard from speed (60-70mph). In my case it felt like the steering wheel was vibrating.
Random stalling when cold
The car would be fine once it had warmed up. But once it had stalled it would be very diffiuclt to start again (the starter motor would turn but the engine wouldn't start). Eventually this was traced to some dodgy wiring - though I can't remeber exactly were, although it was probably somewhere around the ignition.
More Random Stalling when Cold
Pretty common problem on all 205 GTis. Caused by the car going into 'warm' mode too soon and the engine stalling at traffic lights. In addition the air bleed screw can get clogged up. Unscrew it and clean it up, but remeber how many screw turns it took so you can put it back in the same position.
Hand brake Not Working
Really common when you have disk brakes at the rear. Could be either the rear calipers giving up the ghost or the cable having seized up.
Knocking Noise from the Front of the Car
Especially when going round corners slowly - This was caused by the track rod ends and link rods just wearing out (you gotta remember my car has been around since 1987). In my case it wasn't helped by the suspension springs twisting in the upper suspension mounts, they were corroded so the springs were digging in. I've had other knocking noises which were due to the rubber bushes on the driveshafts being split and all the joints wearing out. Make sure you replace the driveshaft seals at the gearbox end whenever you replace a driver shaft, otherwise it'll just leak.
Front Fog Lights Falling Apart
After a while the front fog lights corrode and basically fall apart. I bought some new ones and covered the black metal surrounds in WaxOil (spray can variety) which is also black. They've so far lasted two years with no sign of rust.
Clutch Slipping
At the traffic lights when Mr. Escort owner pulls up you go for a quick get away - it feels as though your left foot has lifted up past bit point, so you floor your right foot, but the revs climb while you're stand still. If its not wheel splin then its the clutch slipping. This means a new cluctch or clutch parts.
Difficulty Engaging Gears
205 clutch cables can stretch after a while so its difficult to get it into 1st or 2nd. I kept adjusting it (which is easy from the clutch end) unfortunately my clutch was also on the way out and was getting stiff. So while pulling on to the M6 (big weekend in Manchester that never happened!) I changed from 4th to 5th, the clutch cable snapped and sent all the gubbins straight through the radiator. So I needed a new clutch and a new radiator. Moral of the story is not to let your clucth get in such a state and don't keep adjusting the clucth cable until it gets so thin that it snaps easily..
Engine pinking
This is something that has come back to haunt me recently, its bad and is caused by the ignition being too far advanced. The older the 205 gets the worse it is.
* One solution is to remove the tube from the vacuumn advance unit, this willl stop the ignition being to far advanced when cruising.
* You can also try loads of Redex to get rid of carbon deposits.
* Moving up to a higher octane petrol (ie, super unleaded) may also help.
You may have to try a combination of the above.
Lights Dimming In and Out
Finally got this fixed, it was caused by a duff voltage regulator in the alternator. It also made the car hunt between 2000 and 3000rpm. As soon as I replaced the alternator everything was hunky dory. Now that its been replaced it a lot smoother.
'Mayonnaise' In Oil Filler Cap
Caused by oil and water 'mixing' which creates a mayonnaise type substance in oil filler cap. This degrades the oil and causes more engine wear. However more seriously is how the oil and water are getting near each other
* Could be caused by short journeys and condensation mixing with the oil. Normally a decent length journey will cause the condensation to evaporate. This has been my problem due to the short journeys I'm making at the moment. However I'd like to know if the problem is made worse by the K&N filter I have which will pull in even colder air than the normal 205 filter.
* More seriously is a blown gasket causing water and oil from the engine to mix. In this case you will get a lot more mayonnaise and it'll likely spread further than just the oil filler cap. You'll also notice the water/coolant level drop as water is mixed in with oil. You'll want to get this fixed ASAP.
The following has come from Robert Herbasz - I've removed the metal gauze fitted inside the oil filler cap. The cap use to get filled up all the time with mayonnaise gunk but now there's hardly any.
This would seem to make sense - even the Haynes manual says chuck the metal gauze filter away if it shows sign of corrosion. So as moisture causes the corrosion it is also seems likley to cause the mayonnaise build up.
Oil
Well not really a mod but there are lots of different types. Personally, I use Mobil One (0w/40). Something I've noticed is easier starting in the winter. The engine fires up quickly and runs smoothly (at least after the first few seconds). However it does seem to leak a bit more (I guess because its thiner and my car is old) but hey - its stops the sump rusting - and its only a very small amount.
The following was posted to the uk.rec.cars.maintenece news group by Trevor Jenkins in June 1998. It makes for good reading
From: zoom zoom@premier100.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Brand-name Engine Oils
Date: 13 June 1998 16:58
ENGINE OILS
There are two main reasons why oil is put into the internal combustion engine. The first is obvious, and that is to lubricate the internal moving parts and minimise mechanical friction. The second reason is not quite as apparent, and that is to act as a coolant, and during circulation, carry away localised heat from those parts suffering from friction.When purchasing engine lubricants most people look for the viscosity grade displayed on the container, e.g. S.A.E. 20W/50 or 15W/50 etc., but do not know what this actually means. Viscosity is simply the term used to describe the thickness of any fluid, and bears absolutely no relation at all to the quality of oil. When used in the evaluation of oil, the first, and lower number of the two, signifies how thick it is when it is cold, and the latter, how thin it is when hot. Ideally the lowest possible number first and the highest possible number last. Unfortunately viscosity is only half the story. Old fashioned multigrades like 20W/50's were first formulated in the 1960's, but since they first came on the scene engine design and demand has changed immensely. Furthermore, since 90% of all engine wear occurs within the first two miles of a cold start, it is extremely important to get the oil around the engine as quickly as possible. A 20W/50 or even 15W/50 Multigrade oil is actually too thick when cold, and this is why overhead camshaft (OHC) engines frequently burn out camshafts, these being situated at the top of the engine at the furthest point from the sump. Another distinct problem is that when the oil is cold and thick, it takes a lot of effort for the battery and starter to turn the engine over quick enough to attain it's self starting speed. It is also important that you should never use anything thicker than a 10W/ (and preferably "shear stable") lubricant in any overhead cam engine. Shear stable molecules are those which resist the shearing action of the metal parts within an engine, and without this resistance the molecules which make up the oil are actually chopped to bits. Consequently, in use, the oil loses it's viscosity and protective qualities, very quickly, even within as short a period as 2,000 miles. These shear stable molecules are only found in synthetic lubricants, in other words oil which has been extensively modified, by a chemist, in the laboratory. They are quite expensive to produce, which is reflected in the high purchase price, but the least expensive way to obtain this quality is to use what is termed as semi-synthetic, and is a mixture of highly refined mineral and synthetic oils.
Now if you think that this is expensive look at it in this way, by the time your engine has done around 60,000 miles using a poor quality oil perhaps at £8.00p per 5 litres, there is a good chance that the cam could need changing. If you had changed your oil every 6,000 miles using semi-synthetic, then that would have been 12 changes of oil using around 10 litres at £13.50 per 5 litres, a total of £135 spread over a period of about 5 or 6 years, according to your mileage.
If you have to replace the cam it can cost you about £160 immediately, plus other unnecessary engine wear, plus the money already wasted on the poor quality oil. But, like everything in this world, when something good is invented, there are people who want to jump on the bandwagon, and a number of poor quality synthetics have appeared. The only semi-synthetic engine oil which we use, and recommend, is MULTIVIS 10W/40. Multivis is manufactured by Morris & Co. of Shrewsbury, who have been blending all forms of lubricants since 1869, so they have plenty of experience on the subject. We have also found that after a full engine flush and changing to MULTIVIS, customers have reported a reduction in their oil consumption of up to 25%. This of course makes economic sense, and further offsets the initially higher cost of the oil. The reduction in oil consumption is brought about by the fact that the shear stable molecules found in MULTIVIS are obtained by using polymers of a very high quality, which do not lose their viscosity easily. They are also very resistant to the formation of "Black Sludge". Please see our leaflet on this subject. Similarly just because something is packaged as oil doesn't mean that it is actually fit to be put into your engine. Some so called "economy oils", such as those sold in supermarkets and discount centres, are only recycled - they have been used at least once and then cleaned; they have lost all of the protective qualities, and other additives, that oils should have.
There are problems associated with cheap new oils too. It is fairly easy to achieve a good multigrade viscosity during refining by adding a poor grade of polymer to the oil. These polymers actually act as thickeners to enhance the hot performance of the oil when it is new, but in use the oil can quickly lose the performance expected at the hot end of the scale, even within only 500 miles. KEEP WELL CLEAR - you will only kill your engine.
Don't forget that with cars that only do a low mileage it is even more important to change the oil regularly as this type of motoring tends to lead to the choke being used a lot more frequently and the rich mixture that this produces leads to the engine oil being contaminated turning it to sludge a lot quicker than normal.
Other additives that are put in quality oils are as follows:-
Anti-Oxidants - Reduces the tendency of the oil to oxidise at high temperatures, and resists the formation of gums and lacquers.
Anti-Emulsifier - This is used to minimise the oil's hygroscopic (water absorbing) action. This water is produced by condensation in the cooler running parts of the engine, resulting in a white mayonnaise forming in the filler, breathers and rocker cover.
Anti-Foam - To prevent frothing and aeration of the oil, most important in engines fitted with hydraulic tappets.
Anti-Sludge - Counters the formation of that black tar like substance called "black sludge".
Anti-Wear - Being difficult to maintain a coating of oil on initial start up, these provide a chemical coating or boundary layer on metal surfaces.
Detergent - Has the property of keeping the engine components clean.
Dispersants - Helps to keep impurities in suspension, and neutralise harmful acids which are produced by combustion and also acts as an anti-corrosion additive.
Friction Modifiers - A new technology, improves the friction characteristics of oil.
Pour Point Depressants - All mineral oils contain paraffin wax which solidifies at low temperatures, without this additive oil would have the consistency of grease at 20o C.
Viscosity Index Modifiers - These are added to raise the value of the base oil to prevent the oil becoming too thin when hot. Synthetic oils have a naturally high value.
So as you can see oil is not just oil, much research goes into producing a good quality lubricant. When buying oil it is most important to look for the API (American Petroleum Institute) specification. At the time of writing the current spec. is "SH" (API.SH). Most of well known and advertised oils either do not come up to the SH specification or are not synthetic. This API.SH specification indicates that the oil meets the requirements in it's resistance to the formation of "black sludge", replacing API.SG, the earlier API.SF and the even earlier API SE. It should be noted however that buying from the vehicle main dealer does not guarantee that you will be getting a good quality oil or one to the to the latest specifications, indeed I do not know of any dealer, discount centre, service centre or any other supplier of oils, that would give you the advice printed here. Most of them either don't know or if they do don't care, and are only interested in making a sale.
An finally a word about oil pressure. Most people, including mechanics, believe that high oil pressure is the ideal - this is a total fallacy. Oil pressure is not at all important, OIL FLOW is, but flow is more difficult to measure than pressure. High oil pressure may only be circulating oil past the oil pressure relief valve and straight back to the sump, which is a fat lot of good. As long as oil has enough film strength to support the loads generated upon it, then oil pressure is unimportant. So again a good quality oil wins hands down.
Trevor Jenkins,
Email at zoom@premier100.demon.co.uk
Electrotune; the U.K's most advanced moble tuning service.
The difficult we do straight away, the impossible takes a little longer.
"What? Fix this? Sorry my mate, me name's Trevor not Paul Daniels"
Jammed Oil Filler Cap
The following has come from Robert Herbasz - Your probably aware it's very difficult to remove the oil filler cap on the 205 when the engine is cold. To ease the problem remove one of the 2 'o' rings fitted to the oil filler cap. I've removed the bottom one.
Knocking from the Rear
My car suffered from this for sometime, I thought it was the suspension though never got it checked out. The noise always occured when chucking the car hard round corners. It turned out that the rear sub frame mounts had gone (sounds horrendous but isn't). They're just rubber stoppers really - cost about £20 - that had perished so it was metal against metal. The best way to tell if they've gone is to jack the rear of the car up. The rear subframe will hang down to far if the mounts have gone.
15 March 2005, 02:14 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
Depends what you want it for, the 205 is by far and away the most fun you can have with fwd and more torque than is sensible. But the Golf was a better built car in the first place and is probably a better car to live with if you have a daily commute in traffic.
FWIW, I've owned Golf's for most of my driving life, but given the choice now I'd go with the 205. Just not in a 'gay' colour like Miami or Sorrento
FWIW, I've owned Golf's for most of my driving life, but given the choice now I'd go with the 205. Just not in a 'gay' colour like Miami or Sorrento
15 March 2005, 02:16 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
Originally Posted by James Neill
This was my first car. I enjoyed every minute of ownership. I used to run a 205 web site - here some snippets you might find helpful
Buyer's Guide
1. Don't worry about the bodywork condition. They don't really rust and last for ages. The only rust you may see is at the front of the rear wheel arches and/or some sweat rust in the bottom corners of the door frames. Both of these are easy to fix by a bodyshop, etc, etc, etc, blah blah
Buyer's Guide
1. Don't worry about the bodywork condition. They don't really rust and last for ages. The only rust you may see is at the front of the rear wheel arches and/or some sweat rust in the bottom corners of the door frames. Both of these are easy to fix by a bodyshop, etc, etc, etc, blah blah
'Kinell James, are you bored at work or summat
15 March 2005, 02:18 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Black Country
Posts: 648
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great advice James, that must of taken ages to type!!!!
I love point 17, it's so true as well LOL:
17. If its an old GTi then everything inside will sound like its rattling - this is normal - but it will stay together.
I love point 17, it's so true as well LOL:
Originally Posted by James Neill
17. If its an old GTi then everything inside will sound like its rattling - this is normal - but it will stay together.
Trending Topics
15 March 2005, 02:54 PM
#9
James - you are truly one of life's gentlemen!
I cannot thank you enough, and much appreciate the trouble you have taken to reply to my thread.
There was a recent programme on Men & Motors with Mike Brewer and Ed China when the refurbished a white 1.9 and it really brought back memories of my old 1.6.
These cars are really becoming back in Vogue (loads of character and great fun to drive).
Just need to find a decent one in a good colour!
Thanks once again James
Richard
I cannot thank you enough, and much appreciate the trouble you have taken to reply to my thread.
There was a recent programme on Men & Motors with Mike Brewer and Ed China when the refurbished a white 1.9 and it really brought back memories of my old 1.6.
These cars are really becoming back in Vogue (loads of character and great fun to drive).
Just need to find a decent one in a good colour!
Thanks once again James
Richard
15 March 2005, 03:04 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 10,954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course you do - stop posting on here and go and get one!
However - a quick search for 205 GTi on here will see loads of threads about them, rubbish little things that they are (NOT!!!!)
However - a quick search for 205 GTi on here will see loads of threads about them, rubbish little things that they are
(NOT!!!!)
15 March 2005, 03:08 PM
#11
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: maturin23 - 205GTi Drivers.com
Posts: 504
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Go for it - I swapped a Powerstationed UK MY99 for a '89 1.9 and I don't really miss my Scoob at all. Get one now.
Gives plenty of heart-racing moments per pound!
Gives plenty of heart-racing moments per pound!
15 March 2005, 03:15 PM
#12
Scooby Regular
Originally Posted by CrisPDuk
Just not in a 'gay' colour like Miami or Sorrento
Dont worry about the "German lovers" going on about reliability - all of my Pugs have been reliable, bar the usual batteries, rads, etc
15 March 2005, 04:21 PM
#15
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 527
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by miles25
Great advice James, that must of taken ages to type!!!!
I love point 17, it's so true as well LOL:
I love point 17, it's so true as well LOL:
That point is true though although to be fair you can extend it to the majority of french cars.
Havent had time to read all the thread but if you get one avoid a modified one like the plague as it WILL have been thrashed. You will pay top dollar for a mint one but it will be worth it in the end.
Ive had mine since august and short of a new battery and a small electrical problem its been brilliant when you consider its only 2 years younger than i am!!
15 March 2005, 08:31 PM
#19
Scooby Regular
Originally Posted by Dream Weaver
People have been shot for less
Originally Posted by ScoobyJawa
Miami is gay, sorrento however is the best colour it came in 
15 March 2005, 10:47 PM
#23
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 1,300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems like interest in the 205 is waning then on Scoobynet. Not
EB, go out and find yourself a good 205. Spend time (a long time now) and find the right one, and you will NEVER be disappointed.
Years on, I am still looking for my Motoring Nemesis. Cars have been and gone, some well remembered, some best forgotten. Current RX8 is nice. But each time I keep coming back to the 1.9 GTi. Luckily I hung onto mine.
Threatened to sell it a few times, but instead tucked it away for a rainy day. Very glad I didn't now, especially when you see the price of Mk1/2 Escorts these days. The next Peoples Hero??
Colour wise, I always liked 'em in WHITE (but mine is graphite??).
By the way, I always loved my Golf GTi's too. (Mk 2 flavour only). Dependable, loyal and trustworthy, like a labrador. The trade off for that keenness and sharpness of a 205 is the ease of driving and owning. No other car is as good an all-rounder IMHO.
CrisPDuk preferrs Golfs because they flatter rather than bite. But he never could drive properly.
EB, go out and find yourself a good 205. Spend time (a long time now) and find the right one, and you will NEVER be disappointed.
Years on, I am still looking for my Motoring Nemesis. Cars have been and gone, some well remembered, some best forgotten. Current RX8 is nice. But each time I keep coming back to the 1.9 GTi. Luckily I hung onto mine
. Threatened to sell it a few times, but instead tucked it away for a rainy day. Very glad I didn't now, especially when you see the price of Mk1/2 Escorts these days. The next Peoples Hero??
Colour wise, I always liked 'em in WHITE (but mine is graphite??).
By the way, I always loved my Golf GTi's too. (Mk 2 flavour only). Dependable, loyal and trustworthy, like a labrador. The trade off for that keenness and sharpness of a 205 is the ease of driving and owning. No other car is as good an all-rounder IMHO.
CrisPDuk preferrs Golfs because they flatter rather than bite. But he never could drive properly.
16 March 2005, 09:34 AM
#26
Scooby Regular
Originally Posted by Olly
CrisPDuk preferrs Golfs because they flatter rather than bite. But he never could drive properly.
Actually it was more to do with the way 205's always feel like they're going to fall apart around you
But, they felt like that new, they still feel like that now, so they must be more durable than initial impressions would credit
16 March 2005, 09:56 AM
#27
Scooby Regular
I've never had that feeling, and i've had quite a few 205's now
There again, i've never owned a German car either, so have nothing to compare with. My current 205 has no interior rattles at all.
There again, i've never owned a German car either, so have nothing to compare with. My current 205 has no interior rattles at all.
16 March 2005, 11:56 AM
#28
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 10,954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've had a head on in my old 205 and was nothing but impressed with how it took the impact, people are quick to say flimsy build and wouldn't want to crash in one etc, but mine was very good.....
16 March 2005, 12:08 PM
#29
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 16,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Damn! I'm hankering after my old 205 now after reading this thread! I'm selling the scoob for something cheaper to run/maintain.... said it would be a Tdi of some sort.....
16 March 2005, 12:42 PM
#30
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: London(ish)
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I been looking at old hatches of late, for really cheap I was looking at the XR2i with rounded bumpers, but hell, you might as well have the daddy not the son in law.
Here is a nice one I just found on AT.
http://pictures.autotrader.co.uk/ATD...a?id=159073001
1992 PEUGEOT 205 1.9 GTi ,
58345 miles, 11 months mot,3 dr hatchback, full cobra cat 1 alarm/imob worth £300. Half leather e/w s/r c/l cd player, recent receipts, good condition. £1,450 .
Distance: 118 miles
Price: £1,450
Here is a nice one I just found on AT.
http://pictures.autotrader.co.uk/ATD...a?id=159073001
1992 PEUGEOT 205 1.9 GTi ,
58345 miles, 11 months mot,3 dr hatchback, full cobra cat 1 alarm/imob worth £300. Half leather e/w s/r c/l cd player, recent receipts, good condition. £1,450 .
Distance: 118 miles
Price: £1,450