Gutmann pug

Right here's the deal. Currently got the STi and a 205GTi track car.

I fancy a bit of a change. The 205 is great fun on the track but a little underpowered and I fancy something reliable etc. The scoob is a great car and I love it but it aint no circuit car for sure. Too heavy on brakes, tyres , fuel etc.

Was thinking about a 964RS but to be honest I cant stretch to it.

So here's my current thinking.

Get myself an ex demo Clio 182 cup or cooper S. The cooper S would be straight to Ray West racing, down the road from me for a supercharger upgrade, which is good for anything up to 240BHP. The clio would have similar mods by whoever does work on them to give at least 200bhp. Then it would be stripped bare, decent cage, harnesses, seats fitted, internal spray job, and ready to rock and roll.
The Clio for about £12K gives me £6K to have the work done, the cooper is more to buy but more BHP at the end.
I would flog the 205 and buy a sensible £2K car in its place.

What do you think? a good 182 / S with decent power, stripped and caged sounds interesting and should be useful on the track?

I could buy a caterfield but the 182 / S could also be used as an everyday car when the mood took me, not something I could do in the caterfield.

I also like the idea of having something nearly new from a reliablility viewpoint, and lightweight means easy on brakes etc.

No idea what and how I would be able to sell it on in a couple of years, but the recent track day climate would surely have people looking to get their hands on a well sorted car

what say you??? good or bad idea?

MooseRacer

Madness imho


There are plenty of MUCH more capable track cars available for that sort of money Lotus Elise and Vauxhall VX220 to name but 2.

And you'd be silly to discount the Caterfields.

matieboy

After having a play with a couple of 182's at trax i think if you had one with a little more power for the straights it would be a very capable track car.My 300+bhp scooby had no problems down the strights but through the corners was a different story.

Gutmann pug

Elise dont really do it for me to be fair, plus I couldnt get a new / nearly new one and do what I want with it for the money.

Saw a guy at a recent lotus / porsche track day in a sorted clio cup, and thought it would be fun to have something similar. Im not after something which competes with the fastest cars in the world but something that put that grin on my face.

182 with a couple of grand spent would give me some fun I reckon.

simo

coul'nt you keep the 182 / mini 4 the road as well? Depening on how many track days you do you could have some fun daily as well.

My preference would be the 182 as it is already fairly well sorted out of the box. i guess it could be remapped, decent brakes & seats and a removable roll cage & away you go.

s

The Chief

What about a 968 aren't they meant to handle suberb??

The Chief

Or a Dax Rush V8

lad at work picked up one of these for less than 10 grand

Gutmann pug

Your missing the point, or maybe i am of course. I fancy the idea of a new or ex demo car. Something i can get a good couple of years of track days on without worrying about the mechanics, other than brakes tyres and other consumables.
I fancy the 182 I have to say, had a 172 before and enjoyed it loads, just needed a little more grunt which with a few quid spent im sure i could get.

MooseRacer

Get a 2 year old VX220 for around 14k. Spend 4k sorting it and you'll have a hugely entertaining car that is reliable and can be used as day to day transport.

The grin factor would be huge, the thing will handle properly as the correct set of wheels are driven.

Hot hatches make good fun little cars as you know well with your 205, but I really wouldn't spend that sort of money on one as a track toy.

LG John

GOT A BETTER SUGGESTION:

By a MKII saxi vts for around £5k (you can get cheaper if you want). There is a supercharger kit for these and with the money you'd have to spend on mods you'd be able to get all the dogs danglies and bells and whistles to get a very sweet set up. Now get some lightweight alloys, strip it out, cage it and get better brakes (4 pots) and finally some high quality rubber boots. Handling is great out the box but if you have money to spare it can be improved also

You have a small, highly fun, chuckable track car that will outhandle many more exotic cars. My standard VTS would run rings round my old scooby on a dry track provided the scoobys power was capped. So assuming you are a tallented driver I'd expect you to be passing impreza's, cups, ctrs, etc though the bends. Now comes the straights..........the s/c vts I raced at crail was reeling my 275bhp MY99 in no problems when he got into 3rd gear and if you search for it there is a video of a s/c vts beating an e46 M3 over the 1/4m and doing the real damage in the mid-range.

For the money I can't imagine a more fun track car for the money this side of a westie You can also do it for about 6-7k if you were to try and maybe cut a few corners. For 12k it would amazing

Edited to add that s/c vts can make 200bhp with ease (more if you want) and stipping will take weight from 935kg to in the region of 850 if you get serious Thats 239bhp per ton giving the following stat:

Power at Flywheel (BHP) 200
Weight without Driver (KG) 850
Drive Type Front Wheel Drive (FWD)
Power To Weight Ratio (BHP/Ton) 239.07
0-60mph (Secs) 5.06
0-100mph (Secs) 12.47
60-100mph (Secs) 7.42
Quarter Mile (Secs) 13.46 @ 103.86 MPH
Drag Quarter Mile (Secs) 13.26 @ 105.79 MPH

Taken from This useful site

Gutmann pug

Hadda saxo a couple of years ago and dont fancy another one, no matter how quick lol sorry mate

The vx220 is great car i know and not a bad idea. I havent driven one i must admit.
I do like the hot hatch style of driving. Davyboy just said what about a civic type R stripped ...... jesus that would be loud.

LG John

No need to be sorry Just remember what I told you now when in a few years time my s/c saxo is passing your clio round the corner and leaving it in the straights

Edited to clarify I don't have one........yet

LG John

Ok, simple solution. MK1 Elise = 8.5k. 10k to take it to well over 200bhp. Problem solved.

davyboy

Litchfield Integra type r racing

Problem solved.

Olly

£18 grand on a track day car??? Why not buy a real competition car, and go do some real racing or rallying? Surely there's only so many times you can go round and round a circuit without getting bored?

Sorry, but I've never got the track day thing: to me its a bit like going for a round of golf on your own.

Gutmann pug

saxo i neeeeeeeeed something new or 6 months old. Thats the idea, to have something I have done the miles in and not killed before i get me hands on it. I want a track car with excellent reliability.

forgot about these ......Litcho I will be on the blower to you in the morning mate
http://www.litimports.co.uk/racing.html

Gutmann pug

Dont think you have driven the Nurburgring before Olly??? thats where it will live for 8 months of the year.

CraigH

IMO I don't see the point in buying a nearly new car road car and then killing it by making it a track car. Not unless it is a proper track orientated car in the first place, which the cars you've mentioned (and most road cars) aren't. You know my views - a) either by a mental track car and drive round in a 5hitter, or b) do what saxoboy says -get an old VTS, 306 rallye, E30 M3 etc, still useable every day, cheap, easy to mod and make a v nice track car and get yourself a nice road car so you've got the best of both worlds.

Thought you were man enough for a) tbh

they're as reliable as you make them........if you don't pay attention to the right thing, then it won't matter how reliable it was initially. Not teaching you to suck eggs or anything

Gutmann pug

I think the problem with making your own track car is that it costs alot of money. A 306 rallye etc is a great great car. But finding a real good low mileage one which wont need a rebuild is still gonna cost me £6K?, E30 M3 even more. Then to cage and prepare it another £3-£4K depending on which you go for. So you have spent £10K or more on something which is a good few years old. I could have a 182 cup for a grand more, than £2K ontop gives me a prepared car.
The question i have to ask myself is will I be happy with it? will it be capable enough. Primarily it will be a track car BUT it will also spend a bit of time taking me to work and back, around and about etc.

I guess i have done the mod a cheap car bit with the pug. Spent a small fortune getting it where it is now. To do more it needs a rebuild and thats about £3-£4K, big money.

Mate I value your judgment and opinions on stuff for sure.

ps .a mental track car would be good but not sure i wanna lay out that much cash on something which is 100% for the track

LG John

Have to agree with Craig - its seems mad to invest all that money in a car that you will ultimately destroy!! You'll do well to get any useful return on it when you come to sell it because anyone with half a brain can spot a car that has been getting tracked for 2 years!! Can't you pick up an exige for around £18k!! Track car out the box and straight-line fast. Would meet your reliability requirements as well

Gutmann pug

I like the Exige to be honest. Not sure how much they go for?

I dont think i will have destroyed the car after 2 years. It will have done about 14 weekends of work, that isnt going to kill it. The whole track day scene is getting bigger so two years in it will have done 15,000 miles and be for sale for a reasonable price? It will be a good buy for someone im sure.

davyboy

I think the other thing you have to think about is the money you are set to lose.

150 laps of the ring - 3-4 sets of front pads and 1-2 sets of front disks, 2 sets of tyres + general maintenenace.

E30 M3 - 8k track prep it 2k (seats & roll cage) will still be worth 8k in 3 years time. Although I don't doubt it will cost 1-2k per year to run though.

Clio 182 - 11k track prep it 2k (seats & roll cage) will be worth 6k in 3 years. Cost 1k per year to run.

Say you get bored with the Clio in a year? How much damage do you think you have done to the value of the car then? Would be very difficult to sell I would imagine.

Gutmann pug

Pretty fair comments all round .

curved ball then ......

Buy a new cooper S .....£15K small supercharger upgrade, 200BHP (dont cage it)
use it on the ring for a year maybe 2 (12 weekends)
sell it on for £13K, thats what they go for and there is no reason for anyone to any the wiser???

davyboy

...they wont be worth 13k in 2 years time. The premium of having one will not be there.

Gutmann pug

I think it will be mate ...... They have been around since 51 and cars of that year are still going for £12,500 at least. Dont think its gonna change overnight .might be wrong though i guess

davyboy

lol @ overnight...you are talking about 740 odd nights!

Gutmann pug

You know what i mean brown eye. They are desirable enough to stay that way. BMW are being pretty shrewd and ensuring a waiting list exists and therefore they can sell second hand cars for good money. I cant see that changing for a long time.

MooseRacer

Facelift/New model due out in the not too distant future which might hurt residuals though

Gutmann pug

Facelift isnt much different though. Bit like boxter values wont drop much when the new one comes out. Its just a good car and will stay priced that way coz its so desirable.

........................................

Now ang on a minute.im almost talking myself into selling the scoob and pug to buy a mini ..... I dont bloody think so..........back to the drawing board me thinks ..whatta plum




now caterham and old audi A4??? .....lol

davyboy

....I was going to say, in true westy fashion you have gone from hardcore track day car to Mini Cooper S, to lightweight track car in the space of one thread!