jl4069

Was just in a 2004 3 series (325ix-which unfortunatly you guys don't get in the UK) and was just amazed at how much better built it is than any Impreza I've ever been in. Just wondering if any one on here knows if the feeling of solidity and strength I (and everyone else) gets in a BMW is just that a "feeling", but in reality the 3-series is similar in actual rigidity to an Impreza?? Guess's? thanks, JL

r4_rick

I am in no way an expert, but in my opinion, technically speaking the Subaru maybe as rigid, but 95% of all German cars give that feeling of solidness, BMW's impress due to the whole driving experience, especially gearbox and handling, I guess the rear wheel drive helps a lot there.

Rick

Brendan Hughes

325ix is AWD...

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Isn't it nice that we get the choice of where to spend the money, though?

I don't think the Impreza represents bad value by comparison - by buying one, you're simply making the decision to spend more on the engine and drivetrain, and less on the interior plastics. I'd love for the scooby to have a Germanic feel to the cabin, but not if that means compromising the driving experience to keep the cost the same.

Didn't know BMW made AWD cars other than the X series, though. Maybe I should check their German web site later...

Jiggerypokery

The American market gets the 4wd versions too, this article compares the 330xi and WRX.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

papascooby

mmmmmmmmmmmm M3 with 4WD - go on Beema - u know u wanna

Senior_AP

Err, no.

robby

i'm swapping my 325ci for a bugeye this weekend - BMW is very solid with no rattles/ creaks, looks good (coupe with 18s) and the spec gives all you want - the reason for the swap is it's no fun to drive.
It'll pull from very low revs thanks to the torque and it's so smooth to drive, for a motorway cruiser it's ideal but for A and B roads i want something that can be worked more

Gary C

Drove a 318iS and even though it was a high miler (~80K) is still felt solid. BUT it did not have the chuckability of the scooby. The steering was slow, the gear change was slow and the whole car felt heavy in comparision. Much more of a cruiser than a back lane charger (and the 2 door iS has the Mtech suspension and the more powerfull engine). Different cars.

MattN

You need to remember the BMW 3 series is a small exec car. It's more Mondeo sized than Impreza (which is focus sized). Funny how people don't expect to be able to throw a Mondeo, Vectra, Laguna etc. around but do expect to throw the 3 series around.

Dracoro

I always throught an impreza was mondeo size, not focus size.

Dream Weaver

How is an Impreza Focus sized?

A Focus is a hatchback and an Impreza a saloon/wagon so they are not the same class at all. Impreza is larger than our Focus as well.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Sit in the back of a 3 series...it's focus sized

Beamer has more useful bootspace than a scoob, external size is pretty much the same between them.

One thing that got me with my dad's 325 is it is a far nicer car to drive than the scoob, just interms of comfort, seats, driving position.

Handling, well ok this is a boggo RWD 2.5 auto version, but I cannot oversteer it...DSC off! Only if I do it in pure anger, and then it's a challenge, wet roads is a bit easier. It understeers fars less than a scoob, it just bites and turns It's more predictable in terms of handling, inspires more confidence when pushing it, thus I chuck it around far more heavier than I would with a scooby. So to me, its more chuckable

But the best bit IMO is the "feel". Scoobs just don't have it...nice heavyish weighted steering, lower turns lock to lock, better feedback, solid proportional brake pedal

But, to me it feels underpowered (thus no traction issues ) Dispite 190bhp it seems rather average in performance, 0-60 is 8.5 for ours (auto) manual is a second quicker. Even the manual it just doesn't seem fast although it is deceptive. But the sound, response and smoothness of the 6pot makes up for it a little. Not sure if it is a heavier car than a scoob, but it sure feels like it.

On that basis, I probably would not be bothered with a 4wd version, the chassis copes with the 190Bhp 2.5 very well. Now, if it were a M3..then maybe things would be different

Daily driver - Beamer everytime.....toy -scooby

AvalancheS8

Compare with the Saloon and Estate Focus - the Scooby is the same size.

From the Manufacturers websites:

Focus:
Length: Hatch 4174, Saloon 4382, Estate 4454
Width: All 1702

Mondeo:
Length: 4 & 5 dr 4731, Estate 4804
Width: All 1812

BMW 3 Series Saloon
Length: 4471
Width: 1739

'04 Scooby:
Length: All 4415
Width: Saloon 1740, Wagon 1695

The Scooby and the 3 series are both Focus sized, a Mondeo class car is quite a bit bigger. The extra apparent solidity of the 3 series will come from the fact that a 330 is 100kgs heavier than a Scooby, despite simpler transmission etc, and from a different set of compromises between refinement and handling that will spec softer suspension and mountings, more sound deadening and so on.

Brendan Hughes

So the 3-series ISN'T Mondeo sized, as originally stated, then! I think that's what threw most people (including me!)

Dracoro

So if the 3 series is focus size, then what's the one series then?

Maybe 'size' is the wrong word. the 3 series, a4, merc c class, impreza, mondeo, laguna, passat etc. are in the same 'class' (although some have more than others )

Anyway, the sizes quoted are exterior dimensions, what about interior sizes?

AvalancheS8

The 3 series certainly isn't big inside, probably a little tighter than an Impreza in the back, about the same in the front. Both a good bit smaller than a Mondeo.

I don't really agree with that, I think that in terms of cars that people would consider as interchangable options, the 3 series, A4 & c-class are in a different "class" to mondeo, vectra, laguna etc and the Impreza is not in either of those groups, a base model non-turbo Impreza is in the Focus / Astra group and the Turbo is in a "fast saloon" group that will take in cars of differing sizes but is based more on similar capabilites and price, so it might include Focus RS (if it was still made) AND the quickest Mondeo, CTR AND ATR, cheaper EVOs, S3, 325 and up 3 series (but not M3 - too expensive) and so on.

Dracoro

Certainly tricky to determine this actually. I meant class, not in how classy but in terms of classification.

For example, the new 1 series bmw is in the focus/golf class(ification). By what people are saying the 3 series is therefore in the same class(ificaiton) as the 1 series which is clearly not right.

Prolly should be as follows
supermini - lupo, ka, 106, saxo etc.
small hatch - clio, polo, fiesta, mini, 206 etc.
family hatch - golf, civic, focus, bmw 1 series, audi A3, megane etc.
small saloon - impreza, 3 series, a4, bora etc.
family saloon - mondeo, passat, laguna
exec cars - omega, 5 series, a6, e-class merc etc.
large execs - s class merc, 7 series, a8 etc.
sports cars - s2000, z4, boxster
gay cars - tt, mgf, 206cc etc.
performance cars - ferraris, 911, lambos
supercars - enzo, carrera gt, pagani zonda etc.
GT's - Bentley conti, Aston Martins etc.
Trucks - land rovers, hrv, x3, shogun etc.
Flash Trucks - Cayenne, X5, toureg, Range rover etc.
Small MPV's
Big MPVs
Track cars - caterhams, westfields, atoms, radicals etc.

There, sorted OK ? !!!

AvalancheS8

That looks about right !! It's a complicated one because of the "class" thing, people looking at small mercs and BMs will probably not also be looking at a focus or Impreza, but someone looking at a Turbo Impreza might consider a sporty BM, but not a Merc, and so on....

Brendan Hughes

jl4069

Ali-B wrote: "Handling, well ok this is a boggo RWD 2.5 auto version, but I cannot oversteer it...DSC off! Only if I do it in pure anger, and then it's a challenge, wet roads is a bit easier. It understeers fars less than a scoob, it just bites and turns It's more predictable in terms of handling, inspires more confidence when pushing it, thus I chuck it around far more heavier than I would with a scooby. So to me, its more chuckable"


I tend to agree, only I'd say that the Xi version is even better. Very very neutral/driftable with even better steering. You guys over in the UK really should try this car. I remember a test done in Fast Lane magazine a bunch of years ago where Mark Hales (very good race car driver/Journo) compared the 525i and the 525ix. He found that because of the 4wd the BMW engineers were able to better tune the front suspension geo's to more aggressive settings, and also sharpen up the steering. He found that overall the x version was a better handler. Well the 3 series X series is quite similar to that 525ix, so I'd say the same basic improvments will be found here as well. The only down-side is that BMW have slightly jacked up the ride height about 40mm, something Alpina and others have taken care of already though.

I'm surprised as heck that no uk mag or private owner has brought over one of these and done the works to it- that is lowered it put sports shocks/struts tires and put in a 300+ hp six, in such form this car would be a giant killer! And last I've heard that BMW plan to put a much improved 4wd system in the next 3-series from the newly released X3, so BMW will have a 4WD a lot less like a Ford Cosworth and more like the Impreza.

Dream Weaver

PMSL