damian666

After the accident in my Bluebird Turbo, I have in my posession a Garrett T25.

I've been looking at cheaper, older cars to mess around with.

Things like Fiat Pandas, 126, Ford escorts etc are all on my list. However, I have caught the 'blown' bug, and I'm not sure I could do without one. However, the insurance is a killer. Fortunately for me, Liverpool Victoria have a surprisingly lenient policy concerning mods - as long as the capacity of the engine remains unchanged, I am free to do whatever modifications I like.

Therefore, I thought that I could transfer my turbocharger to the new car (the bb will almost certainly be scrapped )

However, I'm stumped at how it is done! I know that a blow-through system is possible though... So far I have the following:

1. Source or get fabricated a custom exhaust manifold to suit the turbo.
2. Prepare additional oil lines and an oil pump if needed for the turbo.
3. Procure an intercooler, and relevant hoses.
4. Have a custom exhaust and downpipe manufactured.

This is where I run out of steam! I can't seem to find information on the net about turbocharging a carbed car - plenum chambers keep popping up, as do Metro turbo carbourettors

Can anyone point me in the right direction or give me some advice on this?

Thanks
Damian

davegtt

might be off some help here, good plan you could use is a citroen AX use the block of a saxo VTR (find all these bits from a scrap yard btw) and use the head of the AX, car would stay as a 1.4 cheap tax etc to the eye but inside you'll have a 1.6 (dont bother wiht VTS the 8v is easier to play with ) now Im not 100% sure on this BUT the manifold on the Reno 5 GTT fits the AX or so Ive heard from other people. thus it'd probably be easier to use the turbo of the GTT to (with it fitting the manifold it'd all work out cheaper) and also the carb of the GTT works well with this, so basically you'd be using the GTT turbo ancillaries and the AX/Saxo block. this should give u mucho power from a 800kg car

I know 100% that the AX engine takes well to being turbo'd and they use the GTT carb. I can defo tell u that much.

davegtt

ohh also btw, the plenum is what the boost hoses connects to on the top of the carb, the boost enters the manifold/engine through the carb. give me a minute and I'll find u a pic of the "plenum"

davegtt

http://www.rtoc.org/library/file.asp?id=301

thats a pic of my GTT engine bay. the plenum is the shiney thing ontop of the carb with the GT Tuning sticker on it. the boost hose attaches too it

damian666

Is it like an expansion chamber then? I had the feeling that its job was to even out power pulses? Will I definatly need one or can I just put the turbo air output straight to the carb....

So many questions!!

Damo

davegtt

might be talking about 2 different things but in the reno world the plenum is just basically a connector to connect the boost hose to the carb, dont need 1 but it depends what youve been reading and class as a plenum, u might have been reading something US and might have a different meaning.

Carl2

The montego turbo used a 2" blow through SU carb, I don't know if that'd be any use for you. Try Motobuild if you want to get hold of one. They might have an old one laying around.
You might not need a plenum, but as it act abit like an air reservoir, if the engine is trying to suck more air in than is available at the carb mouth, it ain't gonna run very well.

Carl2

Also you might need an intercooler, again the montego one is fairly small depending what car you want to put it in.

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

As Dave said use the GT Turbo stuff..

I had a Pinto Turbo with cossie bottom end 8v head and a Renault Solex carb from a renault turbo. Simple and effective. Use a basic fuel pressure regulator and a fuel pump off of an XR3i or similar

damian666

Looking at Fiat 126s!!

I reckon it will be a riot. At least 50Bhp

I think I will try and use GTT stuff, as its readily available. All I will need to fit that should be a different intake manifold. Considering that these are the manifolds:

Inlet


Exhaust


Should be fun!!

Damo

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like a lot of work, why not look for a cheap turboed car, generally anything that isnt turbocharged doesnt have the brakes and suspension required to cope with it, also the gearbox might not cope with even a small rise in hp on an older car. Generally non turbo cars run a higher compression ratio than the equivalent turbo model, even the basic same engine is different, this is to allow for the extra air being forced in effectively raising the comp ratio, therefore if you turbocharge a standard high comp engine out of a N/A car you quickly end up with massive cylinder pressures and pre ignition (pinking) due to the mixture being squeezed and exploding before it should due to the extra compression from the compression ratio and the forced induction, this is why turbo cars are generally crap off boost as they are essentially a low compression version of whatever sized engine. It can (and has) been done but to be honest for the ammount of boost you can run its not worth it, there are ways around it but manufacturers generally do it better and include components such as sodium filled valves and stronger head gaskets to cope with the increased pressures.

Think the best route would be either to transplant a full turbo set up into something else or look for a good Uno Turbo or something of that ilk, then play around with bleed valves and chips.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Damian, dont whatever you do start messing with Fiat 126's, they are evil !

But quite good fun.

We had a Fiat 500 (Same basic car) and without major re-engineering it couldnt handle the standard power !

Done right though it could be sweet but for a car that small, I suspect a nice high revving bike engine would do the job better, turbo might be a little torquey causing the back end to overtake the front, did read about one that had been treated to a Lancia HF turbo setup, 4wd and getting on for 200 bhp, I think a Rover V8 engined one appeared as well, that was a separate chassis with a 500 body on top, jag axle etc etc.


Keep us posted !

damian666

A valve for a 126 is £3.
A whole new bore + pistons is £70.

This is why I chose a 126. The part prices are insanely cheap. If I blow it up, I can take the engine out in an hour, and have it almost totally rebuilt for under £150. A new crankshaft is £50. New bearings, £12.

Fantastic

Group 1 insurance is the main thing. Even my bluebird turbo at group 7(!) is £950 TPO. I can't afford that. A 126 fully comp is £600

Damo
ps. they also cost about £150.

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

Don't really think a turbo is the way to go on that engine LOL, go for nitrous!

damian666

For fans of damo's diagrams:

Carl2

You're turbo will possibly be worth more than the rest of the engine by the sounds of it.

damian666

Its an old turbo - 90k with no replacement in 17yrs
Dodgy oil pressures do not help

However, it will be fine for low boost - how much can I use realistically 5psi?

Damo

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

5 psi ?

If all the passengers in a 126 breathe out at the same time it would generate more pressure than that !

I think its a case of plumb it in, fit a boost gauge and see what happens, I suspect that the ammount of exahust gas may struggle to spin the turbo sufficiently to create vast boost anyhow, the turbo is designed for a 1800 cc four cylinder so it stands to reason that a 602 cc 2 cylinder will only be blowing a third as hard.


Where are you mounting it, the Fiat motor is a flat twin, I suppose the exhaust collector is the only logical place ?

Still reckon a BMW flat twin bike engine is the way to go !

damian666

It needs to be close to the exhaust manifold to get as much heat+gases through as possible. In theory, because I am running so little pressure, I could mount it further down the pipes (maybe nearer the silencer) but the turbo would be very laggy. They only rev realistically to 5k, so I need boost coming on as early as poss..... (private joke: maybe I should use that C90 engine eh Andy?)

In fact, the turbo I have is a T2, not a T25.... (even smaller!!) Dont forget that Mk1 GTTs ran T3s - the only way to find out if its all going to work is to try it!!

As regards to 5psi.... 5psi is low, but my BB turbo only runs 7kp as standard. Thats with a 1.8 don't forget!!

The whole exhaust will need to be a custom item - although this has never really posed a problem.... £70 from powerflow, with a £25 cherry bomb should do it! The real expense may lie in the manifold fabrication. Although here is my plan:



This way, I think the air intake will face left (ready for a directly mounted air filter)



The air outlet of the turbo will face rear though.... This could lead to some interesting bends to the carb! Also, if I want an IC in there, then ideally it shouldnt be mounted straight above the engine, as heat soak would be a big issue! (these engines typically run hot to begin with....) I will also get a boost gauge fitted (of course!) and put a pressure blowoff valve in the inlet pipe - more as a safety measure than a showoff noise. It will probs be atmospheric to reduce complexity.

As regarding compression ratios, I can reasonably safely go to 9.5 to one. The standard is 8:1. I may possibly need a thicker head gasket, just to lower compression a little. I will also run it on Optimax, as I don't want it to go det all over the place.

I'm also looking at ali sumps - these have a greater capacity, with larger cooling fins - although adding an oil cooler is also a possibility. As I said above - having the car blow up every other day because its running too hot would be a nightmare!

Its shaping up!!

Now I just have to find a car!

Damo

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Damian, theres a few on Ebay, one with 6800 miles but its at 1500 quid and the reserve isnt met, this might be useful though.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...454&rd=1<br />

damian666

J4CKO - who is the high bidder

Damian

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Somebody in a secure unit I expect !

damian666

LOL - too right mate (Dont tell the wife I said that!!)

My step dad suggested that N20 is a better plan - or as you said, getting a bike engine in there (if the ins. co go for that!) its certainly a plan!

Damo