mozzaITA

Hi all, seen an Integrale converted to RHD for sale in auto italia, just wondering if anybody has driven one in this state before??

I guess they use the powersteering rack from a hf turbo to do it??... i think that its takes more turns to lock, wouldnt it loose the great driving dynamics of the classic??

cheers

Moz

Writer/Researcer and Sales For Rapid Cars Ltd

www.rapidcarsltd.co.uk

Kyl3cook

Hi Mate,

I've always liked my Integrales, and it is very much frowned upon to consider a RHD version. LHD all the way... I think they do use the the HF turbo steering rack, but it just ruins what an integrale really is.

mozzaITA

Yeah i know what you mean, just wondering if anybody has drive a RHD example and what it was like.

Moz

Writer/Researcer and Sales For Rapid Cars Ltd

www.rapidcarsltd.co.uk

JGRIFF

i ran a RHD Delta for 2 years, the rack isn't that much slower (despite all the **llox printed in the mags, yes it makes a difference when your rallying, but on the queens highway? diddly squat!!! I've driven all the versions of Integrale up to and including the Super & Turbocharged S4 in LHD and RHD.
I would have kept mine forever, but someone wrote it off for me (long story)

Along with all Integrales, proper servicing is essential, and the electrics can have a mind all of their own.

Driving position is classic Italian primate ie short legs & long arms. Be careful with the seat trim (Alcantara) the drivers facing wears very quickly if you slide in and out frequently. Performance these days is nothing extraordinary, don't go anywhere near anything thats been chipped, as reliability can be an issue, and repair bills for this Italian classic can be monumental.

It is essential to get a report from an expert (like John Whalley) on the vehicles condition prior to purchase

Hope this helps. I loved mine, big smile every time I drove.

mynickers

Go for it, ****ing awesome car, I hate LHD cars, I could never be a rally driver! I drove a car for two weeks in LA LHD, and I hated it, I kept on opening the door trying to change gear. I coudl drive well obviously, but I coudlnt' drive fast, I am just not as co-ordinated at changing gear with my right hand, and that is kinda important when you're ringing the neck of a car!

How much is it converted??

PeterSimpson

The steering rack is NOT the only problem. The brake pedal is another. I would steer well clear of it. I know of only one properly converted car which uses a custom rack and tilton pedal box without a servo. There are other issues too including the shape of the floor etc.

As a side point chipping is not a serious problem, depending on who's chip it is, and what else has been done.

If you want any accurate info, without the rumours etc, on them drop me a mail.

Rgds
Pete (evo1)

mozzaITA

Well ive heard of converted integrale's before and saw one advertised this month in auto italia, it was converted by john whalley. Funny enough the price doesnt seem to be any different to a LHD.

Ive done lots of research on Integrales, not really that scared of chipped one as in italy there are lots chipped some producing over 300 bhp.

I envy you mr jgrief, you have driven the car ive dreamed about driving, the delta s4, saw one in italy for sale at around £23,000... if i had that sort of money i would of splashed out on this groupe B God!!

I am keeping an eye out for the right Integrale, i did see a few months ago on here a dark blue evo one based in scotland that wouldnt sell and in the end went for around £5500,, it looked amazing shame it was miles away but am also considering importing one from italy, would be nice to go back home and bring back one, low mileage 16v go for very good money there!

thanks for replys

Moz

Writer/Researcer and Sales For Rapid Cars Ltd

www.rapidcarsltd.co.uk

Pumpkin

The Integrale RHD conversion used a steering rack from a Fiat Regata Van or similar. The dashboard was stolen from a HF Turbo.

Personally I would always stick with the car as how Lancia intended it to be and thats LHD. Conversions do seem to have more squeaks and rattles than a LHD version.

Running costs of Integrales is what most people are not prepared for. They manage to scrape enough together to buy a semi-decent car, but they can't afford to keep maintain it.

There are a few for sale here, http://www.omicron.uk.com/php/phpcla...&catname=DELTA

Including one for £ 1500, and another in full rally colours for £ 5000, and a couple of Evos

JGRIFF - are you saying you've driven a RHD Delta S4?...

JGRIFF

No I'm good but not that good, the only built LHD S4's.

The car I drove was at that time owned by The Patrick Motor Museum in Birmingham, we were doing an article for World Sportscars at the time, and we had all the cars from the HF 4WD to the S4 there (it was at the time of the launch of the Evo) hence the article. The S4 in road trim (georgeous metallic cherry red) had a keypad alarm system, which refused to de-activate, after several calls to the FIAT / Lancia press office in London, we eventually spoke to the factory in Italy. a surreal conversation then took place with the factory security experts telling us how to defeat their own alarm system!!. My over riding memory was of the seats, they were just spot on, I seem to remember the curator at Patrick's telling me they were based on the seats from the Stratos, but I'm not sure as to the voracity of that.

The S4 was based on a tubular frame very similar to the Monte Carlo based 037 that preceeded it as the factory rally car, and interestingly Lancia did build one 037 in RHD, for use in Australia, and that car was sold some years ago now by Mike Spence in Reading

RHD converted cars (from John Whalley at least) used the power assisted rack from the HF turbo (1600 turbo FWD) and the Lancia made transfer beam from the same car to move the brake pedal from the near to off side. Yes a little radial deflection (twisting of the tube along its length as load was applied) could cause the pedal to feel a little soft, but S/S braided hoses, decent fluid and pads more than made up for this. My car even had the wipers changed from LHD to RHD fixing, no easy job as you have to remove all the windscreen scuttle, and re-weld in a jig. They do squeak and rattle but then again the LHD cars do as well, Legendary Italian build quality!!

If you can live with a LHD car then go for it, you will not be dissappointed, but if you pefer RHD then don't be put off by horror stories from other people, a properly converted car is still agreat drive.

Peter, I seem to remember that Quaife? ran off a small batch of racks (half a dozen?), to allow the same ratio RHD as LHD, some rich guy paid for one to be made, the finished car went out to Singapore if I remember correctly, and whilst they had the tooling set up they ran a few more off. I have never seen one though.

Pumpkin

Damn, was trying to catch you out there... I almost bought the Patrick Collection 037 when it was auctioned....

Different people converted the Integrale using different bits. A good conversion shouldn't give any problems, but its finding out how good a conversion it is, especially if one doesn't have a good deal of familiarity with cars.

Actually I have an Delta S4 brochure and rally press pack which I am considering selling in order to assist with the restoration of my Lancia Montecarlo which was raced in the early 1990's and I'm rebuilding to a more interesting specification. Both these are very rare items. Any interest???

JGRIFF

Pumpkin, I seem to think that the V6 from the Thema goes straight in (same gearbox) and if you paint it all one colour - plastic bits included, it's a much prettier car, is that what your up to?

Patrick Collection at one stage had a full set of the Group B cars, including the Citroen BX 4 X 4 TC, how not to build a Group B car, even more so when sister company Peugeot has just launched the 205 T16!!!

Pumpkin

My engine:
- big valve head
- twin downdraught carbs
- high compression pistons
- race cams
- fully balanced bottom end
- gas flowed / ported cylinder head
- lightened flywheel
- changed final drive ratio for maximum acceleration


My body
- lightweight front and rear wings and bumpers
- lightweight bonnet (6.5kgs)
- alloy doors
- body colour bumpers, noseband
- wide wheelarches
- perspex windows

Everything else - tweaked around a bit :-)

This keeps legal within the race series it was originally raced in. The 16v Integrale / Thema cylinder head will fit, but they swapped over the inlet and exhaust ports so would need a new exhaust system as well as new pistons, but then that excludes me from the race series.

I was at the auction where they were flogging the Gp. B cars. Saw the 205T16, the 037, the Audi Quattro sport and the Citroen BX.

mozzaITA

Just out of interest what was the insurance like for your car as it was converted to RHD?? did you have many problems getting it covered?? its quite difficult to get a reasonable quote on an integrale as it is!!

cheers

moz

Writer/Researcer and Sales For Rapid Cars Ltd

www.rapidcarsltd.co.uk

JGRIFF

No problem, I did it through London & Edinburgh (Now part of Norwich Union)
I can't remember premium amounts, but I had run a Cavalier GSi 4 X 4 previously, and the premium was very similar. You have to remember I'm as old as Methusala!!!

redevo

Insurance for a Integrale spot on easy to get Classic Car Insurance I'm paying £300 fully comp!

mozzaITA

Its a bit of a grey area this classic car insurance???... my idea of a classic car is one covered in crome!! lol... wot company is it insured as a classic with? an evo came out in 91 why is it classed as a classic unless you have a 16v integrale?? Are you using your no caims discount with the policy?

Tell me more...

Cheers

moz

Writer/Researcer and Sales For Rapid Cars Ltd

www.rapidcarsltd.co.uk

redevo

Insured with "Classic Line Insurance" in the back of Auto Italia. I've got an Evo and it's insured for a min of 10K the mileage is limited to 5K a year but you can pay a little bit more and have higher mileage? I was 27 when I took out the cover and only 2years no claims and they let you build your no claims with them, before the Grale I had a Scooby and the cheapest quote I got was around 1500 fully comp. So get a Grale! Gorgeous to look at and there considered a classic so cheaper to insure p.s it was built in 92 so not quite 20 odd years old. Tony

mozzaITA

wow, i wouldnt of phoned them for a quote, ive had a £1200 fully comp quote for a evo1 at elephant, tesco done it for £700 ish... im 26 7years ncb. insurance isnt a huge problem but buying a right one is, i still think that they are too expensive in this country and would love to get one in italy as they are so much cheaper.

thanks

moz

Writer/Researcer and Sales For Rapid Cars Ltd

www.rapidcarsltd.co.uk

PeterSimpson

for heavans sake how many threads/questions can you post and still not be any closer to getting one! You are not going to find a good one posting on scoobynet. Try the lancia forum that other people have mentioned.

Youll also be lucky getting a very cheap one from Italy! They only used to be cheaper mainly due to the exchange rate being favourable. Thats not the case anymore. There are cheap ones about overthere but there are cheap ones over here too. Unfortunately you have no gaurantee of buying one that will be a good one. Even one that costs 20k could still land you with a big bill.

Your website is still not working as far as I can see.... I have broadband at work and it still will not open.

Insurance, my evo1 race car costs me £600 a year through AON classic insurance, 15k agreed value, salvage retention, 5k miles etc etc.... I was 22 when I bought mine. Am 26 now. You will need to be a member of the LMC tho. Not too concerned with mods either and trust me I have a lot.

I think the only way you can guarantee getting a good one is to use kankku.com but they are not cheap. 14-30k depending on what he has in.

JGriff, sorry about the delay in replying to your earlier post. That sounds possible re the steering racks. The car I know of is the multiweld rally car.

Rgds
Pete

redevo

Your right about Kankuu, that's were I got mine from he's a bit on the expensive side but he'll only deal with mint cars. Evo and 16v and 8v are cheap if you know were to look and what to look for, there like any 10 year old plus high performance car, there's gonna be some ruff one's out there. Doesn't matter if it's a Scooby or a Cossie or a Grale their getting on a bit so be careful when buying. Tony

mozzaITA

Check these sites out boys www.autoscout24.it and www.autoscout24.de
You'll agree that they are cheaper but as you say they are getting on a bit so you will always come across bad ones.

Not ready to get one, cant just leave everything and find one in italy just like that caro piero! plus i really want a mitsubishi evo but lots of $$$..

Website is down as bloke who we got to do it is useless, not sure wots happening with it. Magazine comes out in 2 weeks time though.

Dont worry pete i wont trouble you anymore....

simon57

iTrader: (2)

used to work for eurospares in halstead for a couple of years.
we used to go out to italy every other month and snap up any massa and lambo bits from the factorys.

the boss used to then snap any evos long as they were yellow. all of them were mint,still with the plastic on the mats.drive them back and sell them

he's your man for a mint mint intergrale.trades as moda cars.

marke8

a friend has recently bought his 2nd grale,crashed the first.he would n't buy a lhd(not got the charracter).
his latest 1 ran in the gumball rally.
if your around sheffield and see a burgandy evo ,he's always up for a bit of sport.