matt85

some quick questions:

what is the difference with the Mi16's and standard 1.9's?
does it make it quicker/better in any way?
how much will this affect the insurance from a standard 1.9GTI?
would you recommend them overall?


thanks guys.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

The MI16 engine is 155bhp 16v unit found in the likes of the 306 S16.
I dont think they ever produced the MI16 in the uk, i know they had the 16v version of the 309gti in france but thats about it, more power and 2ltrs= more fun

Tony

chrisowe

AFAIK the only Mi16 was a 405.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

The same engine was used in a few cars, the citroen bx gti 16v etc, we never got the 309 gti with this engine unfortunately which was a shame (bloody french for you!) but some special models in france that you dont normally hear of could have had this fitted (like the 309). Normally transplated from the likes of the 405/306/bx 16v though.

Tony

matt85

yeh you're right i forgot to mention that it was a Mi16 conversion.

hmm.. so its more fun then. great

what would you expect it would be insurance-wise in comparison?

ChrisChennell

With one search you could have found this out yourself, so instead i choose to mislead you.

mi16

its like an m-16, except the i in it is for igneous, which means it is made of rock. other than that they are exactly the same.

What will this do to your insurance? nothing because you are just asking a question on a forum.

How does it compare to a standard 1.9?

Well. with 1.9 being slightly less than 2, compare that to the 16 in mi16 it must be obviously more than 8 times better!

*failing that, the mi-16 may be the common way of describing a peugeot 1.9 petrol engine with a 16v head that was not sold on many models here in the uk, the most readily available source of them being peugeot 405 mi16s. They are now more imported more often from cars such as 16v bxs, 309s and err. other things.

the difference in performance is your standard 8v vs 16v thing. 16v breathes much better, occasionally depending on fuelling they are happier at high revs.

Insurance? if you can afford to do the swap you can afford the insurance.

Brun

- you must be bored!

Brun

ps - the mi16 was a 1.9

igratton

There are also two types of Mi16 engine too.

The early engines were based upon the original 1.9 block...later engines used a different one.

My brother is building up a nice fresh mi16 engine for his 205 stage car.

Another good friend martin really upset most of the scoobs at bedford last yeah by kicking their fat all wheel drive asses. Modded mi16 on 45mm jenvey throttle bodies, longman branch exhaust manifold, custom inlet manifold, quaife lsd - seriously good fun.

jjones

didn;t he get kicked off for noise in the end? it was seriously quick.

igratton

Thats the one !

CraigH

Isn't the S16 engine iron blocked and the Mi16 ally? which is why you rarely see those (or the GTi6 lump which was an evolution) in 205s etc.

jcullen

certainly didn't upset me! was absolutely flying wasn't it. only thing that suprised me was the apparent lack of a roll cage...

James

Dave T-S

The S16 lump is a 2.0 and is NOT the same as the Mi16 1.9. The S16 engine is a dog - doesn't tune well due to the variable length inlet manifold - and to be avoided.

(I have owned an S16 )

Dream Weaver

OK, info for you as I have a 205 Mi16 so can help.

First off, the Mi16 engine is not what is used in the 306 S16. They are similar in design, but the earlier Mi16 engines are 1.9 16v, and as Craig says, made of Alloy, so are about 25-30kg light than the later 2.0 Iron block mi. The early engine was 160bhp, but will actually RR at least 166-168bhp in std trim in a 205. The later iron block was 150-155bhp.

They are very capable engines, strong as an ox (except the stem seals), and the heads have very large valve sizes, I think up to 38mm - check pumaracing.com for that.

To answer you, is it worth it in a 205 - hell yes!!

The low down speed is not that much different to a 1.9, but hit 3500rpm and the car takes off like a turbo right round to 7200rpm. The idle is much smoother, and the engine also needs Grp N mounts, which although it makes the car vibrate a lot (like a rally slag ) it also stiffens the front up no end - no torque steer, no skitting etc.

Insurance is about 10% extra at the most. When I bought mine I had a 205 XS to knock about in - the Mi16 cost me an extra £130 TPFT, with about 7 months left to run. I am hoping to re-insure in the next 3 weeks for about £400 FC with track cover.

Other points:
1. They drive like a Vtec, so you have to stir the gears and stay around 4k rom all the time.

2. They are very quick when you get used to them.

3. MPG is crap, as you screw them a lot - I average 20-25mpg in mine, and that will dip to about 19mpg when I add the 45's next month.

4. Mods and parts are cheap - I fitted std sized grovved and vented discs yesterday, with Ferodo DS pads - total cost for the kit was £90 brand new. Haven't tested them yet, but they look cool (have pics here).

Thats all, defo worth it, great fun, great q-car, and really pisses the 172/Cup/Civic R brigade off

madmoog

iTrader: (1)

Dream Weaver,

Strange you mentioned the brakes but on Saturday I replaced the discs (ATE power Discs, grooved, from Eurocar parts about£40) and Ferrodo DS2500 (about £55). Just been pottering while bedding them in but the bite and feel is very good so far, even stone cold. The braided hoses probably help too. Will start to use them in anger soon and let you know how it goes.

madmoog

p.s. What discs did you get, they are obviously good value?

Dream Weaver

Same as you matey

ATE powerdiscs and Ferodo DS Performance pads. My bloody hands look like they've been through a grinder this morning Discs from ECP, and pads from motorsportworld.co.uk for about £38.

Fitting was easier than I thought it would be, though I did make the error of lock tite-ing the disc threads as well as caliper bolts, so should be fun when I next need to replace the discs

Only had a quick go with them, and they felt softer and not as strong as my old setup, but I assume they need to bed in/warm up properly as I only did about 3 miles.

I didnt get the hoses either, but may get some now with better brake fluid.

Few pics (excuse the mud - thats from the scrapyard on Saturday )







Just need to find someone now who can sell me some 45's with filters, manifold etc, and whilst fitting them also need to remove the head and have that sent off for flowing, rebuilding etc - oh the joy

Chelspeed

309GTi 16V wasn't imported to UK not because the French were being awkward but because the rear corner of the 16V rocker cover fouled the standard RHD brake servo. There are simple mods to fix this but for a production car changes to the brakes mean they have to start again on all the myriad of bureaucratic nonsense of testing and stuff that type approval, TUV etc etc insist on. So they didn't bother. But you can mod it yourself to make it fit and lots did.

Pretty sure there were no factory 205 16V ever made except for the T16 and that's a different thing altogether!!!

ScoobyJawa

Those disks look cool DW

Shoulda painted yer callipers while you were in there

Dream Weaver

I did consider it, but having spent all Saturday going round the scrappies, then taking out engine ancilleries to realise the intake pipe I got from the scrappies wouldn't fit I couldnt be arsed

Bsides, you cant really see the calipers through the speedlines

Brit_in_Japan

If you want to drop an Mi16 engine into a Pug 205/309 you will have to source a different exhaust manifold and downpipe, or have one custom made. A friend bought a 309 rally car with a Mi16 engine in but the previous owner had inclined the engine instead to give clearance and retain the standard manifold. Not recommended as the transmission/driveshafts are no longer in-line with the hubs, so the driveshaft CV joints have to work harder and reliability can be a problem.

Good strong engines, but worth getting a propoer manifold if you're going to do it.

marke8

t16 engine is the 1 you want.

matt85

cheers guys.

i dont think im going to convert one myself. to be honest im just going to buy a finished one with loads of history and pray that it hasnt been TOO f*cked because i dont really have the time at the minute, plus, they seem quite brilliantly cheap as well compared to some other similar stuff.

ive seen a few around and i really want one. plus it solves my dilemma of having a quick car AND saving some money for university


theres definately going to be one on my drive in the next 3 weeks so ill keep you all posted.

Dream Weaver

Where are you based? I can take you out in mine if you are near Lancs anywhere.

New To Scoob

Agree with Brit-in-Japan,

Try and get one with the custom manifold, I've also heard of probs with the engine being canted back causing oil starvation on serious driving.

John.

Dream Weaver

Correct - it does cost a bit more for the proper stuff but is much better. The shortened inlet manifold is about £100 and the bespoke manifold is £325. You also need a Grp N engine mount which is another £50. This stops the rocker cover hitting the master cylinder as there really is only about an inch of room between them.

As for T16 engines, yeah right They only made the 405 T16 in France and there are not many left.

Gutmann pug

The only thing with Mi16 205's is that looking on the pug forums, they seem to spend more of their time off the road than on it......I accept that if someone is a pro or has a good knowledge they will do a good conversion and have no worries. BUT there seem to be more than a fair few not so good conversions with numerous electrical problems etc.....

I ran a thread on a pug site not so long ago and more were off the road than on it...


Great car though if well sorted....

Ciaran

iTrader: (16)

try www.mi16conversion.co.uk 4 more info!

Kev-G

There is no reason (with a good conversion) why an Mi should be any more un-reliable than an 8v (in fact they are better to drive as they are more refined).

There is also no need for either a new exhaust manifold, or a short inlet. The exhaust manifold can be modified to change the angle to suit a std. bottom engine mount.

Dream Weaver

All depends, mine has been great the last 2k miles. Had a glitch last week with a dodgy battery, but that was my fault as I left my old XS battery on the Mi when I sold the XS.

Other than that, no real problems that 8v Pugs dont suffer with.