Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

We've been trying out a variety of cars and it seems to have narrowed down to a choice of two.

Honda Integra Type R (DC2)
Seat Leon Cupra 20VT

I've had lots of feedback about the Honda and I'm trying to organise a test drive.

I wondered if anyone had any comments about the Seat Leon Cupra. I'm after information about the bog standard one and not the Cupra R (which can justify at the moment! )

How does the Seat compare to a standard UK Subaru Impreza?
How does it compare with the Honda Integra?

Are all the Seat Leon Cupras 180bhp or was it just the later ones?

I know some of you will say get a Skoda Octavia vRS instead, but we think it's too big for what we need!

I assume the tuning ability will be exactly the same as the Skoda (and any other 1.8T VAG engine with the single intercooler) so that's not really an issue!!

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

Hi Andy

Are you buying brand new? A friend has the Leon and loves it to bits and another friends Mum has one and they are so much car for the money. I have had a quick drive of one and they are very impressive like the Octavia etc.

Is the Ibiza too small?

Paul

p.s have you got that cheque yet? My sister is supposed to have sent it.

super_si

Raced one of them too in the CTR

Acceleration it was pulling away but once VTEC kicked in we were gaining all the time and took it 100+

Si

AudiMan

Andy,
Mate has a Cupra R, his wife has the 180bhp cupra, (blue/purple colour), lots of bits identical to my old Audi A3, goes well but not brilliant, built quality is good but not as good as the Audi or a Golf, paint quiality is on a par with my Scoob (cr*p), seats are not very comfy on a long run, wheels are a nightmare to keep clean, reasonable sized boot, fairly good fuel economy, and they seem to hold their price well. the latest models are difficult to tell from the Cupra R as they've got the body kit also.

Ian

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Paul,

We're really looking at secondhand. £10-12k something like that.

Drop me an email with your address again and we'll sort it out. No cheque yet! BTW I'm about to sell my clusters so I can get photos of what needs to be done!

Si,

I'm guessing the VAG 1.8T's have the low down torque, which is cool, but I still fancy an Integra!

super_si

Sorry just realised it was a Leon but i am now presuming they have the same stats if not better.

Si

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Is the Ibiza too small??? Tough question really.

At the moment it would be fine, but if we keep the car for 3+ years then it may be small in the future!

That said we could always change cars again!!!

The only problem with the Ibiza is that the current shape doesn't have the 1.8T engine, so it would be the older shape (which will also mean more depreciation and lost money when the new shape comes out!)

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Si,

What did you race in the CTR?? Just curious

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

Andy

YHM

super_si

it was the Leon, could have being type r one too.

Young ish lad so wasnt shy with it. From the A66 down to Yarm if you know the north so was a good 5 miles! On the straights it would accerlate away but talking few meters before the vtec kicked in then it was all over for the leon. Civic out handled it round the bends etc.

mate in a clio valver raced one too, over 120 the vavler took it

Si

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

I guess real world, my fiancee wouldn't have a chance to get those sorts of speed on the North Circular!!!

But with the stop/start nature of that road, she wants torque low down. That's why we've considered TDI's, but it doesn't set my world on fire at the thought of owning a diesel!!!

[Edited by Andy Tang - 10/27/2003 4:25:20 PM]

super_si

Id get the Leon if it was me Civics/tegs good an all but its acceleration that counts

Si

mynickers

Hi Andy,

I took out a cupra, very quick, nearly no turbo lag at all it uses the same turbo engine unit that the Audi tt uses. It had plenty of grunt the wheels squeaked every time I let the clutch out if the revs where up. The chassis is pretty good, but I would say not as good as the Integra, Integra is the more 'drivers car' however, cupra is probably more practical and more of an all-round-a as Integra has 5 speed close ration box, can be wearing around town, and the motorway, Cupra got a nice 6 speed box. However, I would try and get a cupra R if you can, that’s 210bhp, the styling is a little meaner, and it has big alloys, and big ol’ breaks – you pay a little more, but I think it would be worth it.

As people have already mentioned you get a hell of a lot of car for your money, the one I tested was £10k and only had something like 7k miles on the clock. However, this probably means that they will depreciate. The good thing about teg's on the other hand is they hold their value fairly well, particularly because of their awesome reputation for reliability. Funny we seem to be thinking exactly the same things about which cars to buy!

I am almost totally sold on a teg, but then I don’t need practical transport, I want a toy – so it suits my needs. But if I had to do a lot of travelling on the motorway etc, that might make me re-think that decision.

Cheers

Nick

PS If you want I have the evo article on buying second hand teg’s – I can email it to you if you want?

Neilo

I woulad agree with a few of the comments here, the 180 is a quick car in the right hands (my dad has one) but its not as hard as its little brother (Ibiza Cupra (brother has one of these)), ive personaly found that the seats arent the most comfortable things in the world, but i cant fault the build quality. I think its top notch.

How does it compare to my scoob? acceleration.....nah, not really, its quick enough but at the end of the day its putting the 180 through 2 wheels, so off the line is where its all lost, once its moving, it wouldnt be that bad.....it will feel much more torqey than a VTEC in my opinion, it depends if you are going to have people in the car a lot, if your 4 up fairly often then i would say go with the turbo car, but again.....thats my opinion, i know if you put a CTR or an ITR next to my impreza both with 4 up which would win!!

I dont know much about the integras, but i would say that if they are anything like the other hondas available then build quality will not be an issue, ive taken CTR's and Accords out for test drives before my Impreza and they were so well screwwed together it was great.

Another factor in your choice may be road noise?? I could probably guarantee that the integra would be a fairly loud beast, as is its nature, the Leon is VERY quiet on all types of road.

Hope that helps!!

Neil

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Nick,

I know what you mean about having a toy car! I walk to work, so I really don't need car at all during the week. If it were just me, it would be an Integra, no question.

I can only seem to find 3 year old ones with a bit mileage (40k-ish) for about £9.5k!! It's from a Seat dealer, so part-ex (2 cars), warranty, etc, so pretty close to 50% depreciation in 3 years which is about right!

Neil,

Thanks for the info!

It looks like this will another time I don't buy an Integra!!! I've bought 5 cars instead of an Integra now!!

mynickers

Yeah apparently you'll go through tyres very, very quickly in the cupra as well, which is worth keeping in mind.

THe integra has had all the sound deadening stuff taken out, it's a stripped out road legal racer basically, very raw, and indeed it is very loud and frantic. But personally I love that You can't really compare these cars with impreza's, for start they're smaller capacity engines, and as pointed out fwd cars, so different power delivery, and different handling characteristics. I don't doubt sccoobs are quick, because of the traction from the 4wd system, however you'll not be dissapointed with any of these cars they're all fine cars - you need to test drive them and see which one suits you best really..

Mine is integra personally, under the vtec zone it's actually pretty economical, it won't use anywhere near as much juice as a scoob or a leon. However, when you get the needle to flick over 6k revs, the noise and power is frantic, you can tell honda make formula one cars put it that way

mik

Andy-

SEATCUPRA.NET

All Leon 20VT / Cupra are 180bhp. Not Scooby quick nor scooby nimble, but good car for the cash IMHO. Same spec as usual 180bhp VAG lump so same tuning potential (ie. lots).

As with everything, couple of weknesses / issues you should be on the look out for when buying 2nd hand ~ see webby above. Very friendly forum.

Kevin Mc

AutoExpress will be doing a test between a CupraR, Alfa 147 GTA and Golf R32 in next issue - due out Wednesday 29th. May be worth a look.

RobDon

I bought a 2001 51 reg Leon Cupra 3 months ago, 21k miles on it, 1 owner for £9600. Great car, it has a 6-speed box which nobody's mentioned yet! Engine is very strong and tuneable, lots of torque and almost zero lag. I've added a Milltek exhaust, Forge DV, APR chip and a Dynatwist induction kit and power is now 220BHP with 245lb/ft of torque - feels very quick to me! Takes CTR's no problem! Stock brakes and suspension are pretty good too, stood up well to a recent trackday.

For the money it's a well specced motor, comes with 4x airbags, climate control, 6x CD changer, 6-speed box, etc. as standard.

Hope that info helps.

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

RobDon,

Did you buy your car privately, from a Seat dealer or from a trader?

Cheers
Andy

Howee

I think Mynickers mentioned the 6 speed box first but that's irrelevant.

I ragged a cupra R around the Prodrive live track a few weeks ago and have to say I was impressed. Am seriously considering getting a 180 Cupra as I've been offered an X plate with 68k on it for £5500. The value for money, relatively easy tuneability and the bomb proof VAG engine really appeals

FWIW tho I've heard that to get SEATs serviced etc through a dealer is chuffing expensive. A guy here at work has a new TDi leon and is constantly moaning about the expensive service costs, especially when to keep the warranty intact you need a dealer stamp. My guess is it's probably not worth buying through a dealer as you'd end up paying an inflated asking price as well as expensive running costs just to keep a warranty. Just a thought....

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Some things needs perspective. If people think Seat ownership is expensive, try owning a Subaru servicing every 7,500 miles, doing 15,000 miles a year was costing me about £500 in servicning alone!! That's not including things like tyres, brakes, insurance, etc, etc!!

Toonman1

After an expensive divorce, I bought a new 02 Leon Cupra to save money. It didn't...

26mpg on Optimax compared with 22mpg from my previous Impreza Turbo. Insurance was only £6.00 per month less, and a 10K service costs about the same as a 10K Scooby service. The front tyres were shot at 12K, with the rears set to last about 20. I sold the car at 12060 and bought a new 02 WRX PPP.

The handling's fine on smooth tarmac, but throw in the odd bump, ie a typical British road, and it's all over the place. Driven quickly, it can be a handful, as the spring/damper combination's all wrong - dampers too soft, springs too hard. It's a bouncer at speed, and the back end winds itself up, and tries to throw the car off the road. Driven slowly, as most Leon Cupras seem to be, you'll have no probs. Try to have some real fun... and you won't. Traction's fairly poor too, and the TCS's a joke.

The engine pulls well, but mine never felt like it would live up to the performance claims. 140mph indictated was it's max, with 60 coming up in around 8 secs I'd say. The 6 speed box is a gimmick - good for Pub talk, but not required on the car. Quite a few Cupra owners feel the same.

I found the seats okay to a point, but during spirited cornering, was rolling out of the sides. My Wife hated them and the car. She felt unsafe in it.

Worst bit on mine was the build quality - hopeless. It had all the standard Leon Cupra faults:

Leaking door seals
Leaking boot
Leaking headlights
Leaking Rear Washers
2 Coil failures
Chipping paint - in 12K I had more chips than the previous Scoob had at 55K
Grabbing brakes
Loose trim
Rattle from the rear

Plus, mine needed a new gearbox, had assorted clonks, probs with the remote locking and alarm, and a really bad hesitation from the engine when cold. None of the problems were sorted by the time the car was sold (9 months later). I've never kept a car such a short length of time. Never again.

I got a reasonable trade in, and the car was moved on to the Seat branch of the same dealership (where it came from). It started off at £13995 and I understand they sold it 9 months later for £8500.

Cheers

Stuart J

Andy

Skodas are like Seats + build quality !! & cheaper

You say youve ruled out diesels, have you tried a re-mapped one, if not I suggest you do

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Toonman,

I've read about some of the issues that they had with the Evo test car and it was a bit of a concern! Thanks for being honest and giving your experiences!

Stuart,

We driven the Skoda Fabia vRS and the Seat Ibiza TDI 130, both have the same engines and they pulled nicely.

We will be doing about 8-10k a year, so I don't think the cost break works out in favour of the diesel. I would always see it as a comprise car and not offering what I want.

I know that the likes of Jabbasport and RevoTeknic can offer allsorts of chips, and the results they give are fantastic, but it would give a very on/off drive especially with the lower rev limits.

I think the petrol turbo will allow me to 'tinker' with the car more!

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

I can't seem to find a Leon Cupra on the dealer used car site for less than £9.5k!

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

Hi Andy

I took pictures of the ibiza cupra last night but can't log that computer onto the network from here

YHM anyway.

Paul

Cupramax

Hi Paul,

Hows your mate getting on with Y204....

Brit_in_Japan

Had a Seat Leon Cupra for 2 years until this time last year. Have to say it was a totally reliable and easy to live with. No faults in around 45000 miles. There's no turbo lag and torque is good from low down, but it didn't have any real kick in the back to make it feel exciting.

I found the seats didn't give the lateral support needed for the twisties and the best fuel consumption I got out of a tank was around 36mpg on a long medium speed motorway run. Usually mpg of around 30mpg, but that can drop to 20mpg or even less if you are giving it a particularly hard time. Hate to thing what the mpg would be without the "overdrive" 6th gear.

If most of your driving is of the spirited type on A/B roads, front tyres have to work hard and will need replacing every 12-15k miles or so.

The traction control was not the best, used to find it better to knock it off when turning onto A roads from side roads.

But I enjoyed driving it. If I had another Leon though, I'd probably go for a 130 TD. More torque and much greater mpg.

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

Hi Max

He is still loving it and raving on about it He raced this and beat it, raced that and beat it and so on

Paul