RS Grant

Ok, registered on Honda Revolutions... But cant get hotmail access here at work so cant post on there till tonight!!

I am currently looking at Scooby and Honda's as a replacement to my current car.

The Honda I have been considering is the DC2 Integra Type-R. However, sitting here bored at work , I was thinking, would it be possible to transplant the ITR engine into an EG/EK Civic without too much expense??

So I need to know if there are any reliable Honda tuners that could do this conversion??

Does anyone have any idea how much this would cost to complete a job like this mechanically, I can organise the Interior/Chassis/Brakes myself thru a reliable garage near me.

Thanks in advance for any help given...

Cheers,
Grant

*Edit because of my poor smilie skills!!

[Edited by RS Grant - 10/24/2003 11:23:25 AM]

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Why would you want the Integra engine, in what I would consider a much uglier car???

Surely it would be easier and cheaper to just buy an Integra! (even if it were white!!! )

RS Grant

Hmmmm, you may be right Andy...

I was just thinking that possibly an EG (91-95) Civic would be lighter and so be a faster car with the same engine!

Already looking at how to modify the 'Teg even though I havent even driven one, or decided against a UK Scoob yet!! I had also said that my next car would be staying standard.......

As I pointed out, I am very bored at work just now!!

Cheers
Grant

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

I think you might have to bite the bullet and test drive both cars!!

I'm guessing you might choose the Subaru!!!

V-techland

Sounds like a lot of hassle!!!

Just buy a MK1 civic type-r 1.6 in that shape as an inported vehicle Although I think these were only available in white (if that doesn't flick your switch).

A 197 ITR engined car will only be 20/30 BHP up (but about £5-8k up) + the 1.6 engine is slightly lighter and these car 's really fly

If you can't be pursuaded then at least lob an S2000 or ATR engine in there (237 & 212 BHP respectively) Although I don't think that you will find this a cost feasible project!!

Good Luck

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

I'm sure I've seen a mk1 Civic Type-R in black!

The only problem is that they sell for about £7-9k, for the same money you can get an Integra (DC2) and problem newer as well with UK history!!

RS Grant

Andy - Aye, I will need to get my *** down to a showroom this weekend and try these cars if its possible.

I think driven side by side, I would probably go for the Subaru because I am used to a lazy wall of torque from the turbo pulling me along in whatever gear I want to be in.

But the problem is that the running costs of the Scoob will stretch my budget to its limit, whereas I hear that when no in the 'tec range the Integra is quite a civalised and cheap runabout!!


V-Tecland - Yeah, not actually doing it, or trying to do it. Just interested in what sort of options are available for these conversions. The EK9 CTR came in Grey/Silver, White, Black and Red IIRC, I have seen pics of them... They are very quick cars, for reference try www.templeofvtec.net I have watched a few wee videos of those Civics round a track, and they are very very quick indeed!! The noise of the Vtec is very addictive, I kept playing them over and over!! Sad I know.....

Cheers,
Grant

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Subaru - Servicing every 7500 miles
Integra - Servicing every 9000 miles (if 1998-on), every 6000 miles (if made before 1998)

UK Subaru - Insurance group 17
UK Integra - Insurance group 18

UK Subaru - 15-30mpg (depends on driving style!)
UK Integra - 8-35mpg (depends how addicted to the VTEC you get)

UK Subaru - Easy to modify for reasonable gains (exhaust & filter)
UK Integra - Air filter may reduce power. Exhaust for minimal gains. VTEC controllers can be expensive.

MooseRacer

8mpg - even when completely thrashed a std 'teg won't get that low Andy.

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Are you sure, I was told that by a Teg owner who was playing catch up with some Subarus doing *cough* 135mph!!!!

I could be wrong, but I believed what he told me!

RS Grant

8mpg.. Oh God!!

I already know how addicted I would be to the 'Tec, and at 8mpg when giving it hell, maybe the Scooby is looking like the more economical option, however hard that is to believe!!

Cheers,
Grant

Ch!lledBudwei2er

Well I own a DC2 and love the car.

It's true that if you want to get big power out of a car the teg isnt really the way to go, as its pretty well maxed out already. There is a recent topic on Honda R about the differences mods have done to the car. You could also go the supercharger route that some have but thats another whole thread in the making.

So why bother going with a Integra then? Well the whole 'point' of the teg is it's all round balance, the setup of the car as a whole is amazing, many a major source have named it the best FWD car around. And have you heard the car, then theres the vtec kicking in

In a straight line it's pretty fast, but of course there are cars that can go faster, but you give the teg some twisties and there will be a few red faces.

As for the ITR vs Scooby well heres my view from a post on Honda R

I must admit I do like my scoobies as I spent a fair bit of time with scoobynet lads around the North Wales area as they all have a driving passion like myself.
The sound of a flat four makes me drool and not many cars have that kind of sound.
On the bad side the more common ( standard ones, not modded ( or badly modded) etc ) do get labelled. Security is a issue in some area, round here no such problem but some areas the scoobs are a little too wanted. Also the drive wont be as 'involving' as the teg, its not as raw.

I must admit I would love a WRX Sti, but the running costs would put it far beyond my means on my current pay.

Would I go for it in your shoes? Well if it had PPP, and full rally decals on order then yes I would.

Im not a big fan of the standard scoobys and belive you me the teg can out run a few of them in standard form.

Ch!lledBudwei2er

Oh and on the Mpg front, my car gets driven like it should and I get about 230miles on £30 ( full tank ) optimax, which at a guess is about 23+mpg ?!
8mpg would be a track day were the car doesnt fall below 6000revs, and is rare. Never fallen below 180miles to a tank since ive had the car and that was on a scoobynet meet that the scoobs were very much thurstyier.

Oh and the other wicked thing about teg is the parts price, they fall in on the same price list as all the other hondas.

EvoBarry

er, by slightly lighter you mean a couple of kgs of course, seeing as its fundamentally the same motor

The ITR motor will drop straight into an older Civic, and you can retain the drivetrain as its all the same, even the LSD can be used etc.

Having said that, find a Jap spec ITR and it'll save you a bit of hassle anyway and theres not that much weight difference really.

RS Grant

Well it was just a thought!!

Ok, so kind of to a different topic, What mods can be done to an integra type-r to make it go a bit quicker, these are the ones I have managed to come up with:

Manifold - Not sure which one
De-Cat
Full S/S System
Cold Air Induction Kit - Proper cold air, where filter is in front bumper
V-Tec Controller - How much difference will this make?
UniChip, or Chip of some sort
Cams - Probably Spoon/Mugen?

I know ITR's are highly tuned as standard, but I KNOW you can make them a little more powerful, just need to know how!!

Cheers,
Grant

scoob_babe

our DC-5 is more economical to run on petrol but eats more oil (especially when V-tec'd). We've had a my00 turbo - they are totally different cars and hard to compare imo.
We have noticed that mods are more expensive than the scoob ever was but if you get a teg, you have a slightly more exclusive car

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

V-Tec Controller - How much difference will this make?

If the V-TEC zone was coming in a 1,000-1,500 sooner, then a fair bit by all accounts!

MooseRacer

Never managed to get below 160miles per tank - even when chasing STI's


If you're looking to mod your next car, stick to a Turbo motor unless your pockets are deep

Incidentally no need for a Unichip and a Vtec controller, they do the same thing.

Riprock

Oh and on the Mpg front, my car gets driven like it should and I get about 230miles on £30 ( full tank ) optimax, which at a guess is about 23+mpg ?!
==============================

Chilledbud m8...where do you get your optimax from !!must be around 60p per litre .

Teg takes 50 litres to fill(11 gallons) 50x78.9p(ish)=£40 quid ish .So based on your 230 miles to full tank(assuming you ran that down to the point that when you next filled up you just managed to get about 49.5 litres in)230 divided by 11= 21 MPG......ish .

If you actually choose to fill up when the warning light comes on(which im guessing your doing)then generally youve still got nearly 3 GALLONS left in the tank (the teg fuel gauge is HOPELESSLY pessimistic).

Take it from me.......when the fuel light first comes on youve got nearly 60 miles worth of normal motoring or 35 ish miles of "spirited"(I.E VTECING )drving left.

Sooooo based on that and the fact you say £30 worth of optimax to fill, im guessing your only getting about 38 to 40 litres in (my guess about you filling at the first sign of the warning light is also looking right ).....deep breath.....THEREFORE 230 divided by 9 ish gallons (40 litres divided by 4.54)= 26 MPG....ish .

These are all ball park figures of course....i dont know your exact amount but 26 mpg is consistant with a few longish journeys with plenty of vtecing thrown in .For the record my highest is 379 from 49 litres(a good tip for when your actually DESPERATLY close to running out is that the VTEC cuts out on you!!!! which was 2 long journeys with about 20 ish blasts into the "ZONE" .34.5 MPG...not bad .

Worst?.......lots of short journeys from cold (15 miles a day)...plenty of tecing(when warmed up of course....)equals 220 ish.Around 20 mpg.Its not likely to go any worse than that on the road realistically.On a track i can see it going low teens....13 maybe....but certainly not 8 .The real killer ,like on ALL cars is lots of cold starts and short journeys.They really hammer the MPG.....but its the same with all cars to a greater or lesser extent.30-50 mile journeys a day can easily see 280 to 300 miles from a full tank with a bit of restraint ,which is still a healthy 27-28 MPG.And thats with its fair share of "TECING".

So in short(aaahem) dont no one dis the teg MPG.....its as economical as you want it to be.But damnit its hard trying to stay out of the party zone .

Yours

Dash

P.s Hmmmmm sorry for the long winded Post

Ch!lledBudwei2er

Filled her up in the last hour with 220 miles on the clock and no sign of the warning light.

Optimax @ 82.9p - £31.13 - 37.67 liters which works out @ 26.55 mpg.
This was on a 2 mile to work from cold, and then 5 miles home. Six times a week and 2/3 of the rest of the miles are done on a Friday night with 1/3 on the Sunday, both including 50/50 around town/longer stretches, plenty of vtecing.

Riprock

Thought you where only getting 38 litres in ....come on ya tart!!!!! run it for 60 miles with fuel light on....always a good laugh when the VTEC cuts out cos youve only got 1 LITRE left!!!

Yours

Dash

DuggE4

I have a 1.6 VTi Civic Coupe and I get about 260 miles on average from £28 worth of fuel.....I have had 330 miles out of it on £28 but I was driving very sedately. I sometimes wished I'd have gone for the Teg although my car is so ordinary looking I don't worry about where I park it half as much as I probably would with a Teg.

Lovely cars though Tegs, I can't think of many other cars around the 8-10k mark that will give back so much driving experience...except scoobies of course!!

Type R

Can I clarify some info here.

The EK9 is 183BHP (b16b) the only difference between the b16b and the b18c (DC2) is the stroke, which can be replaced, and fitted for around 1K ish, there is minor changes in compression (HG) and pistons (b16b are better).

I imagine a few SIDC members saw my old car on the SIDC Trackdays of old, and most will agree not much were coming past.

Whether you go for a DC2 or EK9 tuning is a pain, as I found to my expense. Please feel free to question.

After having a VTEC, I had major problems deciding what I wanted as so little got anywhere as good as what I got. Still miss that VTEC howl from the Straight through Spoon N1 with 1 silencer .

TurboBoost

Re: the old mk1 CTR "The only problem is that they sell for about £7-9k, for the same money you can get an Integra"

True, I quite fancy having one just because they are a bit different (they have that nerdy cultish Gran Turismo appeal) but you can barely find them anywhere.

In fact Warrenders have one for a ludicrous 11 and a half grand - mind you its only done 24k miles:
http://www.warrender.co.uk/acatalog/...Type_R_21.html

0-60 in 5.9 seconds, yet to be bettered in a FWD hatch.


[Edited by TurboBoost - 10/25/2003 3:46:35 PM]

Type R

5.7 seconds, although dahn near impossible to get I acheived 5.9 in standard trim, and my modded one ran a 14.01 1/4 mile, not bad for a N/a 1.6.

Type R

Thats well overpriced even at that low mileage.

You need to make sure you get one with the full spec, A/C, ABS, PAS, Leccy mirrors.

Diablo

A couple of additions to Andy's post though - as someone who has had both.

Subaru servicing - every 7500 miles or six months
Integra Servicing - every 9000 miles or one year

Annual Scoob service anything up to £350 - £400
Annual Integra Service about half of that!

Scoob insurance - Group 17 Quote £900 odd
Integra insurance - Group 18 Quote £670 odd

MPG from experience - Scoob 10 to 25, never more.
Integra 18 to 40 !!!

D

Diablo

OK, so mods are much more expensive, but thats a function of a n/a engine. Turbo cars are cheap to mod for more power.

TBH, the Teg never felt underpowered like the scoob did once I was used to it.

D

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

If power becomes an issue, then £3k will buy you a Jackson supercharger!!!

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Diablo,

The concern from my fiancee is that she does a lot of driving round the North Circular, and that umph when she needs it.

I assmue (but can't comment) that the Integra drives like a 16v 2.0 NA car when it's not in the V-TEC zone?? So there is still the grunt to pull away when you need it??

Obviously the fun is when you put your foot down, but a concern is that she will never do that!

Dare I say it, the choice of cars is down to the Seat Leon Cupra (1.8T 180bhp) or the Integra! I'm leaning towards the Integra despite never driving one, but I think my fiancee would prefer a turbo car!

Any feedback on how it drives round town would be very welcome! Bearing in mind that we currently drive a 306 XSI (2.0 8v) and a Ford Ka!

Cheers
Andy