Dunc20

Can anyone please inform me of the pro's and con's of these 2 cars and which one is better. Looking to get rid of my MY99 UK Scoob Turbo, want something smaller and cheaper o run but still with good performance.

Thanks for your help.

ps. I will have approx £12k to spend, any other suggestions welcome.

S.B.

If your scoob is standard then you prob wont feel much difference in the type r apart from you have to rev the nuts of it to get real performance. Wheelspin city in the wet, in the dry as well if you really go for it. If you dont mind reving the nuts of the car then not a bad car.

Ciaran

iTrader: (16)

go Clio for one individuality think about type r's u see them all the time but clio's u dont well cups anyway!! plus their smaller so greater power to weight ratio!!

pippyrips

i had a 172 (new shape) before i got my scoob - sooooo much nice than the cup. The interior of a cup is just like a 1.1 espression - crap.
Included in this is the loss of leather seats,air-con, abs (though that isn't a bad thing actually), zenon lights etc.

I have also driven a cup and there is bugger all difference in speed drivability either.

Stick with a standard 172 - great car for the money

Ridge Racer

i've seen people rave about the cup but , and i know it doesn't tell the whole story , the figures of the 172 standard and the cup are not that different so why the hoohaaa !! will somebody explain whats so special about the cup.

Ciaran

iTrader: (16)

171bhp and about 4 5ths the weight of a normal 172 plus lowered as standard!and u get a decent sized set of wheels as standard.

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

I'm sorry guys but IMHO the CUP blows the 172 out of the water in terms of performance. Plus, for £250 you can get an officially sanctioned chip that will lower your 0-60, increase your drivablility and give you a 1/4 mile time of aroun 14.4/5s. I used to have a 172 and my bro has a Cup so I should know what I'm talking about.

As for the CTR vs Cup, then it's up to you really, there's bugger all in it in a straight line, and IMHO the handling in the CUP is superior. Don't be put of by people saying that the interior is bad, the fact is it aint that bad, the quality of the plastics etc are on a par with the CTR. If the seats start to bother you, you can spend the extra cash you saved and by some Koenig's or Recaros.

Oh and a Cup can be had for as little as £11,000 circa. Thats a full UK sourced car too, not an import.

Your choice....I went for the CTR purely because I had a 172 previously!

CooperS

I've test driven both and I'd take the CTR over the 172 Cup every day of the week. The cup felt like it was really badly put together, rattles from every corner.

Andy

LG John

Been in a cup and CTR and both are probably as quick as each other. CTR feels good when it hits VTEC and feels like a bigger more solid car. Cup feels frantic, fragile and like a hot-hatch If I had my choice and wasn't bothered by the extra running costs of the CTR I'd have the Honda but the Cup is a comparitive bargin. Also the CUP is A LOT faster than a standard 172 IMHO. Been in both and the 172 is just hum-de-hum 'are we going yet'

rhybeck

jap v's frog s@"T no contest !!!!!

nisr227

Depends if you prefer a revy, reliable good spec hatch, or a slightly rattly but great handling pocket rocket, both with about the same straightline peformance.

Driving my wife's Gti-6 regularly means I appreciate a decent handling fwd hatch, and the cup sounds fantastic with more pace and amazing performance per pound . But if you can stretch to the CTR then its a better all round car with its realability, decent seats, gear position, ABS, and more space, and thats why we will probably opt for a CTR when we replace the pug.

Gary VR6

I was in the same situation as you 6 months ago, and went for the Cup. I've had 3 honda civics, and have wanted a ITR or CTR for as long as I can remember. Trouble is, when you drive a CTR, it's numb as hell - 'clinical' if you like. Very race car, yes, but bland, too.

The Cup is just a hoot. I've done 12,000miles now, and I haven't stopped smiling. The engine dynamics are very different from a honda twin cam VTEC - the cup is sooo much more torquey, giving real urgency from 3000rpm onwards (on a par with my VR6), yet you still get that lovely cam switchover of the variable valve thingies at 5000rpm, from which point you fly all the way the 7250rpm. For example, floor it at 40mph in 3rd and you'll keep up with most things through to the change to 4th at about 85-90 - there's no real need to use 2nd unless you're in a real hurry.

Downsides of the cup? No soundproofing to speak of makes driving at over 80 uncomfortable; engine noise isn't as sweet as honda's; there are a few common mechanical issues (knocking suspension, engine mounts, exhaust rattles), but they all get fixed readily enough; dealer's customer service standards seem to vary alot; CTR's 6 speed 'box is the best ever, whereas Cups 5 speed just does what it's supposed to without any fuss.

£12k = new cup @ £11k (with 3yr warranty), plus £1k to spend on something else, or...

£12k = 2 year old CTR (1year of warranty remaining), about to be replaced in 4 months' time by a model which handles and goes better.

You decide.

Oh, and climate control is a £600 option for the cup now.

Plantie

What you will find with the CTR is that there is a new ECU flash on the market from Hondata. You're Vtec begins at 5300 and ends at 8600-8800. The car is so much more driveable and power/torque is up roughly 20%. no more getting caught out of gear and with the delightful gear box it is like a dream!

If you have a CTR then this is THE MOD to do.... and only £400.

p.s for anyone who doesn't know Hondata they are America's leading Honda ECU company... to the point where even the official American Honda Racing Team uses there software!

www.hondata.com - I think...

moses

civic type r the best normal sports for everyday and u can do alot of tuning to it mate

spoon , turbos and the lot

R1916v

Aircon is an option on cups.

Evo mag tested the cup at 6.5 to 60 and beat a bug eye wrx to 100

Type r, more cash, better built,

R1916v

Type R also holds its value better.

Can get a cup for not much more than 10k (no aircon) form the right places

Gary VR6

Holds value better? Not sure m8.

Scanning autotrader, looking for CTRs and Cups within 100 miles of Wrexham, I find the following:

Cheapest brand new CTR (no air)is £14995
Cheapest private used CTR (no air)is £11500

Cheapest brand new cup is £11237
Cheapest private used cup is £9500

Conclusion:
CTR has lost 23.3%
Cup has lost 15.4%.

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

Correct, the low depreciation is a myth perpetuated by the dealers.

MooseRacer

engine dynamics are very different from a honda twin cam VTEC - the cup is sooo much more torquey, giving real urgency from 3000rpm onwards


You sure the Cup is producing more torque than the CTR at 3000rpm Gary

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

It technically may not be, but it certainly feels more torquey!

Witor

Although i've ordered an '04 CTR (due to arrive Late Jan), the jury is out whether the cosmetic changes actually make the car more desirable than the current revision. Personally I dont mind the changes (quite like the indicators on the mirrors and the new dark grey colour ive ordered, do not like the huuge red H badge upfront), and the mechanical revisions probably wont make that much of a difference in reality (lighter flywheel, heavier steering, improvement to ride & NVH)

civictyper

Witor

Most of the chaps on the Type-R forum seem to dislike the changes but I'll wait until I see the model in the flesh before I make my mind up completely. Pictures never seem to do justice to new cars so I'm guessing that it'll look ok.

Personally I like the rakier front lip and indicators but am not sure about the red inserts or seat backs/squabs. All a matter of taste though as (oddly enough) I would have loved a pair of all red Recaros.

Although the current CTR is by no means perfect I think Honda have had a tough job improving on the current model and am glad that they are making it even more hardcore as opposed to watering it down. AutoExpress.co.uk have given it a favourable preview although I can't help thinking that Honda would have been better off waiting for 100RON petrol to be released here officially and then selling a face lifted JDM version here instead.

Now a 220 BHP CTR would be something more interesting

Cheers

McRash

I had a 172 and it was great fun - the cup is too hardcore for my tastes (and mileage). However, I now have a WRX PPP 03 and a CTR. The CTR is a much better car to own than the Clio as it feels like it is built to thrash and survive. The Clio always felt like it would start to fall apart if you really gave it some stick for a prolonged period.

Big BUT though - the Clio will leave a CTR for dead on a bumpy road - as would many "normal" cars as the CTR is a nightmare on rough roads....

Best of luck!

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

True, I think the 172 is a better overall handling car than the CTR, I think it inspires more confidence!

Continuing from TypeR's post about the JDM version, that just makes my blood boil thinking about that! Ok the different manifold and exhaust may take it over some emissions ratings, but why oh why do the Japanese get Reacaro seats and LSD as standard and at a cheaper price. When you take into consideration that they also have to ship it over from Swindon to Japan, it doesn't get any easier!!

Plantie

Me thinks you drove a very badly set up CTR.... because I am yet to find a 172/Cup that has kept up on a country road...

also gary.... the cheapest ctr without air you can get is around £14,300, that probably still will show the CTR as having a worse depriciation percentage mind...

P.

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

I don't have a badly setup CTR, but the handling is better on the 172, maybe grips levels are higher in the CTR though! In the wet I had bags more confidence in my 172, it was great fun to fling around!

MooseRacer

It'll be interesting to see how the 04 Civic fares in the handling stakes - Autocar certainly rated it as much improved this week.

Riprock

Holds value better? Not sure m8.

Scanning autotrader, looking for CTRs and Cups within 100 miles of Wrexham, I find the following:

Cheapest brand new CTR (no air)is £14995
Cheapest private used CTR (no air)is £11500

Cheapest brand new cup is £11237
Cheapest private used cup is £9500

Conclusion:
CTR has lost 23.3%
Cup has lost 15.4%.


Hmmm not a strictly scientific comparison......CTR has been out over 2 years and by the sound of it your quoteing a 2 year old example(not to mention milage variation).The cup, to the best of my knowledge is less than a year old.Try a one year old example comparison.Im sure youll find the percentage loss much closer if not better than the cup.

Gary VR6

Riprock - well spotted; I've been rumbled.

OK, so the cheapest 52 reg (with 5200 miles) CTR was £12890. Against cheapest new CTR I've found of £14995, that gives a 14% loss. So compared to my Cup figure of 15%, the CTR is a clear winner.

MooseRacer

Go on then I'll play this game

Brand new UK CTR, dealer supplied, including years tax, delivery and registration etc

£14594.00