Chris L

Thumbs up for the Alfa Romeo 8c Competizione



Turbocharged V8, RWD with 400bhp - yes please

Thumbs down for the MG Streetwise



I applaud MG for taking a bunch of very mediocre cars and turning them into something interesting with ZT etc, but what were they thinking when they came up with the Streetwise??

Chris

[Edited by Chris L - 9/20/2003 9:52:49 PM]

Bobby Peru

Must've been on to something as VW are set to copy it with a Polo based one.

NACRO

Well not wishing to kick off the whole "streetwise is a load of crap" debate again but yes I think you are 100% right.

NACRO

In any case regarding VW "copying"- there have been other cars that had similar treatment before the abortion that is "streetwise".

Chris L

Nacro

I disagree This car deserves a damn good kicking They talk about Scoobs being whacked with the ugly stick, but this thing has been positively beaten up with one!

And have you seen the advert in the papers! What is that all about? The only good thing they can find to say is that it has a high driving position!

Please MG - just kill it.

Chris

fatherpierre

It's not nice is it?!

It's regarded as crap in India so God knows how it'll be received here.

NiceCupOfTea

Always nice to see a bit of informed criticism

1) The Streetwise is built at Longbridge, based on the Rover 25 platform. The CityRover is based on the Indian Tata Indica but has been heavily revised for the UK market - initial reviews have been favourable.

2) Way to compare 2 totally different cars! How about a back to back test of an MG SV and a Daewoo Matiz!?

I usually find that most people who criticise MG-Rover probably haven't driven one since the mid-80s. Although the current model range is getting a bit long in the tooth they are are still good sellers and are good cars. Since Phoenix bought MG-R back from BMW for a tenner, they have done a lot of work, bringing out a lot of new models. Most are based around existing models, but the company has a high profile at the moment and I read recently that the ZR is the best selling hot hatch in the country at the moment. All this costs money, and considering their financial situation 3 years ago I'd say they've done a pretty reasonable job...

Anybody who reckons that Rovers are for old farts should try getting their head out of their backsides and actually drive one! I drive a Rover 25 1.6 (for the record I am 28), it handles, it's quick, it's comfortable, it's cheap to run, it's been 100% reliable, it looks classy, and I don't need to spend 1500 quid on alarms and trackers!

Go to France, most people drive Pug/Citroen/Renault, go to Germany and it's all BMs/VWs/etc. Yet over here people won't touch them because the Austin Allegro had a square steering wheel Where was Subaru 20 years ago?

Please folks, vive la difference and all that, but objectively they are not crap cars, and wildly inaccurate comments do nothing but damage MG-R's reputation further! I for one am proud to support Britain's last volume care manufacturer.

(Not wanting to get into a flame war here or anything, but get your facts straight if you're going to rubbish something!)

Also, with regards to the Streetwise - I've had this debate with NACRO before! I'm still of the opinion that it is a very shrewd move by MG-R. All the advantages of an SUV (high driving position, chunky looks, plastic body protection stuff) without any of the stuff you don't need (4x4, ridiculously large engine, too wide for road, mental running costs) - let's face it, when the nearest most SUVs get to off-roading is mounting the kerb outside the local junior school what's the point in it!? So I think it's a top plan personally!

Sprint Chief

I intend to file a lawsuit against you, I nearly died laughing when I read this

fatherpierre

I don't think where it's built is relevant.

It's looks foul.

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

I, for one, like the looks of it

Chris L

Agree with FP - I did not rubbish MG - indeed I praised them for making some interesting, decent cars with the ZT etc. My point is that the current range isn't just a bit long in the tooth, it's ancient. It desparately needs updating. I don't believe the Streetwise (I mean, what a name!) is the way to do it. I also don't subscribe to the view that just because its an English firm that we should support it without question.

The other point to make is that MG are losing their way. If they want to be a volume manufacturer then they will need to compete with the likes of Ford, Vauxhall, Peugeot etc. They clearly haven't got the resources or backing to do this (hence the reason why they revamped the existing range, rather than introduce new models).

Alfa have also recognised this fact and have made a business decision to focus their range on sports cars. They know that they will not be a serious challenger in the high volume sector. I was not comparing cars, I was comparing car companies. Alfa trade heavily on their heritage and sporting reputation - the 8c Competizione name comes from their 1930s race cars. MG can do the same. Producing stuff like the Streetwise is going to do MG no favours - it will turn them into a laughing stock.

Chris

Dark Blue Mark

I think it looks alright. Its not trying to be a Ferrari, is it.

MB

Veracocha

Looks very much like a TVR 350C to me.

NiceCupOfTea

SprintChief>
*sigh* Have you driven one? It's not trying to be an Impreza for God's sake - it's a nippy warm hatch. Yes, it handles well for a supermini, and yes I think that 0-60 in just over 9 seconds is pretty respectable for a cooking model. Obviously if it isn't 4 wheel drive and capable of getting to 60 in less than 6 seconds then it isn't worth a second glance

fatherpierre>
Fair enough, that's your opinion - a lot of people would say the same thing about the bugeye impreza. However, where it is built *IS* relevant if you decide to rubbish it based on that fact - especially if you get it wrong!

Good to hear that there are a few people at least, myself included, who think that MG-R are on the right track. 3 years ago people were predicting them being out of business in 6 months. I look forward to them proving their detractors wrong again.


[Edited by NiceCupOfTea - 9/21/2003 8:42:06 PM]

fatherpierre

I rubbished it on looks only.

It might have Merc build quality and stay reliable for 500k miles for all I know, and handle like an Enzo - though I very much doubt it is/will.

Until they've been on the road and broken down, etc. I, nor anyone else can comment on their reliability.

The initial poster was referring to looks.

The bottom line for me is that I think it's downright ugly. Horses for courses innit.

I don't mind MGs at all and think they've done ok at making drab cars into aggressive looking, nippy motors. If 80s styling is your thing and money's tight then they're an option.



As for the Bug eye - I think they've been hit very hard with the ugly stick too.

[Edited by fatherpierre - 9/21/2003 7:47:39 PM]

ForestryCom

Actually I hear that the Streetwise is turning into something of a bestseller and as a patriotic Englishman that makes me proud! Its also making me think that MG Rover might have a future.

Also just found out that the MG ZT 280 is coming out. Always found the MG ZT a classy car and I'm seriously thinking about getting rid of my forester. To be honest I toyed with getting a Scooby but I had ago in a ZT and the interior build quality was much better. I like my forester but its getting a bit long in the tooth also the ZT is soooooo nice. So much BHP on tap!!!!!I'm dribbeling about it as I speak. Give the MG's ago, they sure make you think!

NiceCupOfTea

Except for the fact that it's based on proven Rover 200/25 running gear!

Fair enough - not arguing with your taste! Just think it's harsh criticising it for being built in India when it's built over here...

OK, but I think "drab" is overly harsh. They're distinctive and IMHO pretty classy looking. If you want drab there are any number of Vauxhall/Jap/Korean cars out there that'll take that crown. You wouldn't call an S-Type drab, but I think th Rover 75 beats it hands down in the looks stakes.

Anyway, I'm not criticising anybody's taste - I'm more than happy for people to hate the looks! What I *do* take issue with is blanket slagging off of an entire manufacturer's range with little or no knowledge of it.

By all means, test drive a few, read up on them, and then slag them off to all and sundry - if you really believe that they're no good. But do MGR the courtesy of a fair hearing. There seem to be a few people on this board who rate the Saxo VTS/VTS and similar hot hatches - well the Rover 200vi/BRM, 25 GTi, and ZR 160 make an equally viable proposition, so go and drive one and see what you think! (I'd rather have my 1.6 16v than a VTR any day of the week)

Agreed.

[Edited by NiceCupOfTea - 9/21/2003 8:39:47 PM]

fatherpierre

I was getting the India thing mixed up with that other monster they're selling - soz.

Rover 200s aren't really anything to shout about and running gear doesn't guarantee build quality. Seats get a lot of stick.

NiceCupOfTea

But the fact that they've been about a while means that most probs have been sorted - revised head gasket means they're much better now, and as the 200 - the steering and suspension was much revised for the 25, so it's a much better drive (same suspension as the 200vi IIRC - the sporty one).

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Mr ForestryCom..
A Forester & ZT - not Mr Peter Stevens are you?!

Nick
1997 Forester S/tb (& ZT160 but not Mr Stevens)

Bobby Peru

Wrong - Chris Bangle!!!!!

Chris L

For the record, my personal recent experience of MG Rover hasn't been good. I used to drive a Rover 25 a fair bit - it was never ever anything to shout about - a good enough run about, but it was very over priced when new (not my car). It has also been my distinct displeasure to run two 400 / 45s (call 'em what you like) as company pool cars.

Both cars let me down with identical faults within the space of 6 months leaving me stranded once on the M25 and once on the M40 - now you might say this would prejudice me, but I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

As I've said twice already, I'm not having a go at MG full stop. They have done well with limited resources (and it would be nice to think that a UK volume manufacturer could do well again), but the fact remains that the only decent volume cars that MG/Rover have produced in recent years have been in partnership with either Honda or BMW.

The competition has moved on, you may not like the looks of the new Vectra, but it is a hugely effective and advanced car. The same can be said for the Mondeo. Ford and Vauxhall have attempted to improve their cars because they are now having to fight BMW / Audi / Mercedes / Volvo / Saab in the company car sector. Traditionally, these marques have been seen as 'luxury' brands and out of the scope of the mainstream 'rep mobile' - this is simply not the case anymore.

MG would be foolish in the extreme if they thought that they could continue to take on the other mainstream manufacturers with their current product range. The only real quality car is the 75.

To produce completely new cars is incredibly expensive. Money I'm sure that MG don't have. So they have a choice - either partner with another manufacturer (can't say that this has been hugely successful for MG/Rover in the past), or they start looking in a different direction. Porsche / TVR / Alfa and a few others have shown that it is possible to make a profit on what the industry considers to be very low volume.

I can't believe their future lies in making things like the Streetwise. The fact also remains, that the public perception of the cars still isn't great.

If I look around my company car park, I don't see many (if any) new Rovers / MGs. I see plenty of Mercs, BMWs, Audis (and quite a few Scoobs!). The only people I know that own one where I live are the old retired couple across the road - this is a problem. The perception of the cars is still not good. They are making efforts to improve this, the ZT and ZS are average cars made good and their participation in the BTCC and the British Rally Championship is a step forward - but will they continue with this?

I think Rover/MG's future is very uncertain, they can't survive for ever on the current models and they are going to face some harsh choices very soon. There is only so long that you can continue to dress up old cars with cosmetic changes. Radical changes are needed and the Streetwise isn't it.

Chris

Chris L

Incidently, if MG do ever get round to selling the X Power SV sports car, then good luck to them - I think this will utlimately be the path they should take. They should look at Porsche and see how to diversify without destroying the brand image.

Chris

mn_angrybeats

It's dynamically poor and an ergonomic disaster IMO..have you actually driven one ?

ScoobyJawa

The 25GTi suspension is actually based on/the same as the BRM which is different and better than the Vi, though the other models I can't comment on - just thought I'd point that out

Oh - and rather than this just being another Rover thread that Alfa looks rather nice actually - hope they make it reliable! Also has BM Z8 about the front looks - eg grill and foglights.......

[Edited by ScoobyJawa - 9/22/2003 12:10:18 AM]

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

That Alfa looks fantastic hopefully they will actually prduce it. That rover thingie looks awful though

Chris L

OK - Vectra not maybe the best choice, but you can substitute any modern main stream car, Mondeo, Laguna etc. Are you really saying that the standard Rover 45 is their equal? It's not. The game has moved on MG must do the same.

Chris

mn_angrybeats

Where did I say that then ? remind me ?

If they had Ford / GM / Audi money I suspect they would produce a good car. The MINI is a good example, designed and engineered by Rover engineers at Gaydon. Shame BMW had it in the end.



[Edited by mn_angrybeats - 9/22/2003 3:43:52 PM]

pugoetru

vw are not copying rover with the polo they done something ugly jacked up allroad style with the golf years ago

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Err, wtf?? Firstly it's not cheap...bit of a gas guzzler for a 1.6

Then do I really need to list all the faults that i've had with ours? Plus the cost of fixing them?

Oh ok...here I go

Inlet manifold gasket
Head gasket
Gearbox
ECU

and that's just the major expensive bits.

Anyone think that the streetwise would look better if they'd colour code the 'orrible black plastic? Still would be a laughable effort though