Cosworth427

Just shows how capable a "318i with 19' alloys" can do with professional motorsport development.

European car magazine "Sport Auto" tested the hottest edition of the M3 against the 911 GT3 on the famous Nurgurbring and Hockenheim circuits. The lap times are:

N-Ring
M3 CSL: 7:50 mins
996 GT3: 7:54 mins

but!....

Hockenheim
M3 CSL: 1:13.5
996 GT3: 1:13.2

Here's the url to the scan of the article. It's in German.

http://speed.supercars.net/Pic?s=13&dir=2003-7-16&p=d&f=3&t=73506&m=1386185&auth=Porsche%20addic t

image doctor

Were they both using R rated tyres?

id - can't read German

ElliotP

Don't know about the "R rating" thing but the CSL was on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyres (standard fit semi-slick). Can't remember what the GT3 was using but I'm sure it was it's standard fit tyres.

The CSL was also running with the 155MPH Limiter in place which was a problem on one or two of the straights (marked **)

Student Bloody Lamo.

arent you talking about .4 and .2 of a second?

hardly a topler is it.

ElliotP

I imagine he's referring to the combination of handling and speed (with the toppled statement). Whilst the speed is not much more than the "normal" M3, the handling is much much better! As we know the GT3 is no lame performer in this field.

Bobby Peru

Yes but how would it fare against the new Carrera RS.

Cosworth427

================================================== =
"arent you talking about .4 and .2 of a second?

hardly a topler is it."
================================================== =

Take a look at the N-Ring time. 4 seconds apart.

ADL-ATR

Well most of the M3 CSL given to the press got pranged, apparently as the tyres are quite specific, and require warming up. Thats why you have to sign a disclaimer on delivery/order.
Obviously the driver of the M3 was very capable, was it the same drivers for both cars??

akshay67

A Spec C Impreza pretty much kept up with a GT3 in a recent thread and soon to be featured in Autoexpress...

Mmmmm

GT3's a great car, it's excellent though that the M3CSL a usable day to day 4 seater and costing around £15k? less can give it a run for its money. It probaly would have done even better with the 155 limiter off

However Porsche are just releasing a GT3RS with 380bhp which will probably see it off, but then the old GT3 was pretty extreme for day to day use and I am sure new Gt3 and RS will be much the same.

Hicky

I think I read something in EVO about the standard tires on the CSL are crap in the wet and BMW have had to locate a suitable alternative tire from somewhere.

Will check it out on the EVO website.

ElliotP

The issue with the tyres is this.

From order time there has ALWAYS been two choices of tyres - The Semi-slick Cups on "CSL" rims or "Standard" road tyres on "normal" M3 style rims. Obviously most owners want the newer CSL style rims so order those+the cups.

The Cup tyres have a very high performance level in the dry. They need ambient temps above 7c and cannot shift pools of water in the same way a standard road tyre can (due to the patterns). Their performance on a wet surface is not too bad but pools could cause aqua-planing. The disclaimer you are asked to sign makes sure you understand the properties of the Cup tyre. If you don't like it you order the normal M3 wheels & tyres. This has been the case since day 1.

A lot of owners are ordering a second set of CSL rims fitted with standard road tyres to use during the wonderful british winter season.

mutant_matt

Regardless of the variables, the cost of the CSL (£55k?) vs the GT3 (£73k?) that is quite impressive!! It also makes the 8:06 time of the STi 8 Spec-C all the more impressive at £27k

Matt

nellie

Well said Matt!! Spec c is my next one!!!

ElliotP

Yes, that Sti time is very impressive given the price.

UKType

Matt, Does that mean you can get me an M3 CSL for £55K instead of the normal £60K!!!!

LitchfieldImports

The times for the CSL, GT3 and Spec C are closer than you might think The CSL performance is significantly helped by its tyre. I was do to have them on mine but after driving it I have changed back for the normal M3 Tyres!

Iain

www.litchfieldimports.co.uk

mutant_matt

But it's quite possible, even likely that the GT3 time and the Spec-C time was set using R-tyres too....

£55k was off the top of my head, if it's £60k, that's still £13k less but if you could afford the GT3, would you really go for the CSL or the Spec-C? I don't think I would!

Matt

Cosworth427

*sighs*

Again, it just shows that a so called "318i with 19inch alloys" can hold it's own against the elite of high performance "sports cars". It shows that the E46 family saloon chassis is adequate enough for professional level motorsport driving without any serious modifications to the chassis itself and STILL be a streetable everyday driving machine! It shows that even with just RWD it can match more powerful and torquey RWD/AWD supercars (Lamboghini Murcielago) on even the largest of race tracks.

Just open your minds up some of you.

Tommy 2000

There is no doubt that both the M3 CSL and GT3 are fantastic cars, but there is a certain 'magic' to the 911. How about Porsche's new offering:

'Porsche is upgrading the 911 GT2 for 2004, making it the most powerful roadgoing 911 yet: in its never-ending quest for superlatives, it will develop 483bhp, 21bhp more than the outgoing model. This power increase has been achieved by tweaking the electronic engine management system.'

'Torque is up 20Nm to 640Nm (472lb ft) between 3500 and 4500rpm, and 0-60mph acceleration now happens in 4 seconds. Top speed is 196mph, and exhaust emissions now meet the upcoming Euro IV legal criteria.'

Awesome!

dominicm

Just waiting for the ..........was he on the mobile phone' remarks!!!

Dom.

Cosworth427

================================================== ====================
"'Porsche is upgrading the 911 GT2 for 2004, making it the most powerful roadgoing 911 yet: in its never-ending quest for superlatives, it will develop 483bhp, 21bhp more than the outgoing model. This power increase has been achieved by tweaking the electronic engine management system.'

'Torque is up 20Nm to 640Nm (472lb ft) between 3500 and 4500rpm, and 0-60mph acceleration now happens in 4 seconds. Top speed is 196mph, and exhaust emissions now meet the upcoming Euro IV legal criteria.'"
================================================== ===================

Actually the current 460 HP GT2 has broken into the 3 second barrier. Road & Track scored a 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and a 1/4 mile of 11.9 seconds.

Mr Polka

For a true comparison they MUST be on similar spec tyres. Michelin Pilot Sport Cups are a world apart from road Michelin Pilots. They would more than compensate for the 4 seconds at such a long track like the Ring

UKType

I have seen quoted elsewhere that running Cup tyres on a car like the GT3 would make a difference of about 8 secs around the Ring compared with road tyres!!!