stuckhere

BUT they are made in Mexico and ain't worth a **** here in the states, I think they would have trouble giving them away.
They are very unpopular due to the build quality, all the parts are shipped across the pond and then built in Mexico as its cheaper than shipping complete cars etc from Europe.

Oh and it costs me to fill up my 2003 WRX.....$20 max if its very empty but thats for 93 octane the highest I can get here.


[Edited by stuckhere - 7/1/2003 5:47:43 PM]

ozzy

[rant mode on]
I'm now starting to see why these anti-globalisation nutters get so upset (well, up to a point).

Yeah, they're made in Mexico and the workers probably earn $10 a day and they're sold to Americans for $8,000 a piece. That really benefits the Mexican's in what way

Seems like they get cheap labour to increase their profit margins and not too build a better product or help the local economy.

I wouldn't mind paying higher tax (than other countries) if we had services I could at least use and be proud of.

I've paid NI and tax since leaving school and I still had to go private last year when I really needed it.
[/rant mode off]

Stefan

[Edited by ozzy - 7/1/2003 6:19:19 PM]

rik1471

Btw, this wasn't a Ford Focus thread, the Focus was just used as an example. My point is aimed at UK differences in taxes/car prices; please move me back to none scooby related, it's more active in there.

[Edited by rik1471 - 7/1/2003 8:47:33 PM]

johnfelstead

the USA have a diferent "phylosophy" with regards to tax. They pay much lower taxes than we do in Europe.

When they have a budget over there, its usually a cut in taxes that is anounced, not a rise. Have you ever seen a budget that reduced your overall tax burden? I havent in 20 years of working.

The UK government has also gone on the crusade of making Fuel cost high to reduce global warming, ignoring the fact that our competitors havnt bothered. So they can sit all smug in the knowledge that the UK is doing something (aledgedly) about fosle fuel usage. It is Government policy to price you off the road, hence why fuel is so expensive.

[Edited by johnfelstead - 7/1/2003 8:54:29 PM]

davyboy

We don't do so bad....try living in Copenhagen for example.

£4.90 for a 500cl of beer

50% tax on earnings for the average salary

200% car tax, or so I was told.

And still they have run down schools and hospitals. The Danish guy I spoke to said the only thing better is the rail system.

I'll stick to what I know thanks.

John, the fuel in Europe is not that much cheaper mate.

[Edited by davyboy - 7/1/2003 9:30:54 PM]

fatherpierre

Yeah..... cheers!

A bit hard to read, that.

And we're hardly a major petroleum producer?

We refine a lot of oil, but we don't actually source it from land or sea.

Or was that what you meant by produce?

All down to good old tax(as we all know). Ken Clarke's fuel multiplier tax started the whole thing off, before the barage of Blair, etc. starts!

I was in France last week and it's was about 92p per litre there, couldn't believe it!

At least their beer is cheap

[Edited by fatherpierre - 7/2/2003 2:48:45 AM]

GTI

WAR ON NEW LABOUR!
I've had enough absolutley ******* everything, buy a house and get tax in some form sell it and get taxed in some form its the same for ******* everything, I think we should all rebel anyone with a high performance low MPG car should grid lock LONDON, and the UK motorway system like the truckers did!
Its just taking the p!ss! A fecking Audi S4 (old style) last year in America was just over £20k! What was it here pushing £40K???

[Edited by GTI - 7/3/2003 9:31:31 PM]

rik1471

..we must do, just looking at the prices of the American Ford Focus. Their lowest spec, the Focus 3-Door ZX3, has a standard spec as follows:

- 2.0L 16V Zetec

- 100,000-Mile Tune-Up Interval

- Driver & Front Passenger Air Bags

- AM/FM Stereo Single CD Player with Digital Clock & 4-Speakers

- Front Floor Mats

- Sport Bucket Front Seats with Adjustable Head Restraints & Passenger Side Tip/Slide Feature and Single Map Pocket

- Manual Driver Front Seat Height Adjuster

- SecuriLockTM Passive Anti-Theft System

- Tachometer

- Rear Window Defroster

- Split/Fold-Down Rear Seat with Flip-up Rear Seat Cushion

- Dual Manual Remote Operated Mirrors

- 5 MPH Impact Absorb Bumper

- Solar Tint Glass

- 15" Alloy Wheels

- P195/60R15 All-Season Tires

- Power Rack & Pinion Steering

- Independent Front Suspension MacPherson Strut and Control Blade SLA Independent Rear Suspension

And costs in GBP £8035.

Nice - how cheap is fuel aswell!?

Does our excuse for an NHS really worth the tax we pay!?

Freak

This govt. is shafting us all up the rear.....
Car companies do it too.

There was i thinking this post was about something else too....

rik1471

The equivalent UK spec, the Focus Zetec starts at a bargain £12,000.

£4000 goes where?

Lord Of The Bling...

so its costs 20 dollars to fill up your scooby...thats like 12 pounds............


i`m moving!!!

47 NAT

Nath

chiark

Bear in mind your octane rating is different to ours too... IIRC, 93 US is equivalent to 97+ on our rating. RON/MON and all that guff.

This isn't the government doing this to us. VAT at 17.5% is added to cars, that's all. Oh, and the first reg fee of 25 quid.

Now petrol, that is the ******* tax man

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

It's not just the 'States.
honda build the CTR here. Our top spec model costs, what,£16,000 otr?
The japanese domestic market vesion, better specced, and quicker, sells for just under £14,000 over there, and has to be shipped over there!
RIP-OFF BRITAIN IS ALIVE AND WELL UNDER MR. T.B.LIAR AND HIS CRONIES!!
:madf:
Alcazar

Mycroft

All this and scameras too...

stuckhere

Yeah its cheapto fill up $20 which is mostly wasted sitting in traffic and oh how I miss UK roads, I'm living in a pick-up, SUV hell here with all straight roads and wayyy to many stop signs and traffic lights and people who cannot drive.

johnfelstead

you think thats bad?

you can get a USDM spec STi 2.5T over in the USA for £19,000 on the road!!

douglasb

I noticed the prices ripoff a few years ago when on holiday in Australia. They manufacture Fords and Holdens (GM) locally. A Ford Falcon (3.8 litre straight 6, Granada size body) or a Holden Commodore (Vauxhall Omega with 3.8 straight 6) sold for the equivalent of around £16K.

Aussies tended to think that their home brand cars were a bit crude and thet Europeans were more sophisticated. Hence, a Peugeot 406 2.0 GLX cost around £16K - which was the same as in the UK. Peugeot didn't have a local manufacturing presence so their cars weren't being compared with local products. Similarly, Saab 9.3's started in the UK and Aus at around £17.5K.

The Mondeo 2.0 GLX also sold in the UK for around £16K and was imported to Australia. However no Aussies would buy it at that price when they can have a bigger car with bigger engine (and petrol at 23p per litre), so the Mondeo cost the equivalent of £10K. The Mondeo was built in Belgium and shipped halfway across the world and was still cheaper than in the UK. Something very expensive must be done to those cars on the way across the Channel :-)

GM were similar in that Holden Vectras (German built but with an Australian engine) were selling for around £10K.

regards

Doug

rik1471

So what do we get for all the tax we pay that USA or Australia don't? In particular road and petrol tax?!

Mycroft

###
So what do we get for all the tax we pay that USA or Australia don't? In particular road and petrol tax?!
###
You have the privilege of living in an old democracy which has loads of 'hangers on' and early retirees from the Civil? Service?
You know that you couldn't do without all those petty laws like those on the paint for number plates etc etc... you all love it, I know this for a fact!!!

MGJohn

Stop moaning ,,, always been that way here ... worst still, UK mug punters still form queues to pay over the odds for their motors. I see no chance of that EVER changing .... UNLESS as a whole we leave the things unsold in the showrooms for a long period ... then watch those prices fall to fairer more realistic levels .... just like the USA Focus.

However, I've been distracted, where's that new beemer catalogue ... must have the latest wotnot WHATEVER they ask for it ...I'll find the money somehow or maybe the firm can cough up some.....

rik1471

oo er!

Mycroft

All 'old' Countries are the same... there is a huge overburden of lazy privileged berstards that cost us all dear... we are free, but all around me I see chains...

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

It's rip-off everything in this decaying sorry p155 poor excuse for a country (yes I'm on about the UK, not that you need to guess)

I'm sick of it too. Not just car, electronic, houses, tax absolutely everything.

I wouldn't mind if we got something back like public services. Ok you say we do, but its a sorry excuse. I mean for example they clean the main streets almost every morning in New York. When was the last time the streets around Birmingham were cleaned?

And that's just a minor gripe. Public transport is the most pathetic in the world, hell, I've used better bus services in third world countries! as for the NHS need I say more.

This country has had its day, there is nothing left. We are all being leached by every politcian and corperation. And the only public who benefit are the ones who have only lived here for couple of years - not their lives!

When I have the finances I'm outta here. And leave all the immigrants and leachers to suck out whats left when I'm gone.

[Rant off]

MGJohn

.... we're all doomed ...... ... never a truer word.

jaf01uk

I remember watching Top Gear years ago, when they went to Hong Kong on behalf of a buyer in B'Ham who lived about 5 miles from the MG factory, they got a full UK spec MGF shipped all the way back to 5 miles from where it was built and it was still 2 grand cheaper!?

johnfelstead

it is a lot cheaper in some european countries dave. It's masively cheaper in the USA, i had to laugh every time i filled the WRX up on my trip of 1200 miles each way from seattle to LA when i was over there a few weeks ago, i was stunned by how little i paid.

have a look at this house of commons debate from 1999, the situation is even worse now. http://www.parliament.the-stationery...t/90429-33.htm

"The United Kingdom now has easily the most expensive diesel in Europe. The difference is astonishing. Let us consider the cost of filling a 1,200-litre lorry with two tanks. The difference between the cost here and the cost in Luxembourg is £350.40; the figures for Belgium and France are £330 and £267.60 respectively."

johnfelstead

also, here is a table of fuel costs/tax paid on fuel in europe. We are the most expensive even though we are one of the major fuel producers of the world.

http://www.transtat.dft.gov.uk/table.../pdf/80802.pdf

Petrol and diesel in the European Union: current retail prices: 1991 - 2001

Premium unleaded petrol (95 RON): per 100 litres US Dollars
1975 1980 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001
United Kingdom .. .. 80 81 75 79 85 88 101 108 113 121 110
Austria .. .. 81 89 84 89 112 108 97 90 87 87 81
Belgium .. .. 85 89 86 92 104 111 104 96 96 97 90
Denmark 1 .. .. 82 84 81 85 104 111 101 96 102 103 99
Germany .. .. 80 90 84 96 108 108 96 91 93 94 91
Finland .. .. 100 88 82 88 111 119 106 104 106 105 99
France .. .. 91 94 90 95 113 117 106 102 101 101 93
Greece .. .. 70 75 82 77 82 85 78 70 69 72 67
Irish Republic .. .. 97 .. 83 83 90 95 89 84 80 82 80
Italy .. .. 119 120 97 98 106 116 107 101 102 100 94
Luxembourg .. .. 60 64 66 71 84 84 76 71 74 76 72
Netherlands .. .. 97 105 98 104 118 118 109 107 107 107 103
Portugal .. .. 95 101 88 91 103 103 93 90 86 80 81
Spain .. .. .. 92 80 79 86 88 79 74 75 76 73
Sweden .. .. .. .. 99 97 105 117 108 101 101 104 91

4 star petrol: per 100 litres
United Kingdom 2 38 60 86 88 81 87 94 96 110 118 125 130 115
Austria .. .. 84 97 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
Belgium 39 77 92 99 96 102 115 120 112 105 103 101 97
Denmark 39 73 95 96 87 89 107 .. .. .. .. .. ..
Germany 37 63 87 98 92 104 118 117 .. .. .. .. ..
Finland .. .. 109 101 93 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
France 42 81 94 99 96 101 118 121 110 107 106 108 100
Greece .. .. 76 82 88 83 88 91 84 75 75 76 71
Irish Republic 34 58 100 101 87 89 97 102 98 98 95 96 ..
Italy 47 81 123 124 103 105 112 122 113 107 107 104 98
Luxembourg 33 .. 66 75 76 81 95 94 85 80 .. .. ..
Netherlands 40 71 103 114 107 113 128 127 .. .. .. .. ..
Portugal .. .. 101 108 94 93 104 105 96 93 89 .. ..
Spain .. .. 85 94 82 81 91 93 82 78 79 81 77
Sweden .. .. 112 114 103 102 111 122 121 106 105 107 ..

Diesel: per 100 litres
United Kingdom 29 63 77 79 74 79 86 90 102 109 117 123 112
Austria .. .. 73 73 69 69 85 87 77 70 68 72 67
Belgium 24 50 70 76 73 75 83 85 75 69 68 75 70
Denmark 16 44 84 73 76 66 77 83 79 77 80 88 84
Germany 36 63 64 68 65 70 78 81 72 65 68 94 73
Finland .. .. 77 67 55 64 81 82 73 69 73 78 73
France 27 55 62 65 65 70 77 84 76 72 73 78 72
Greece .. .. 54 66 58 53 60 65 59 51 56 62 56
Irish Republic .. 45 87 89 78 82 85 93 85 79 75 78 73
Italy 21 36 91 91 78 77 82 93 85 79 81 82 78
Luxembourg 17 .. 42 48 56 60 68 70 62 57 58 64 59
Netherlands 22 47 62 65 81 86 96 100 77 72 74 78 73
Portugal .. .. 70 74 64 61 66 71 64 59 58 60 60
Spain .. .. 68 72 64 81 89 98 87 79 60 64 62
Sweden .. .. 86 84 68 89 101 100 89 84 81 92 84


Tax as a percentage of retail prices: 1991 - 2001

Premium unleaded petrol (95 RON) Percentage
1975 1980 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001
United Kingdom .. .. 63 65 67 70 74 76 77 81 81 75 76
Austria .. .. 55 61 61 64 67 67 65 68 68 61 63
Belgium .. .. 64 67 69 72 72 73 73 76 74 66 67
Denmark 1 .. .. 63 65 63 67 71 71 70 72 73 67 68
Germany .. .. 66 71 72 76 76 74 72 75 74 69 72
Finland .. .. 58 64 69 71 74 75 75 78 74 67 68
France .. .. 71 73 76 79 80 80 78 81 79 70 71
Greece .. .. 60 64 70 71 70 68 65 67 63 53 55
Irish Republic .. .. 64 .. 64 66 66 66 67 68 68 59 56
Italy .. .. 74 74 72 74 73 73 72 75 73 65 66
Luxembourg .. .. 55 55 61 66 67 65 62 66 64 56 58
Netherlands .. .. 66 70 71 74 74 72 72 75 73 66 69
Portugal .. .. 68 71 70 70 71 71 70 73 68 49 46
Spain .. .. .. 66 65 66 68 67 65 69 67 59 59
Sweden .. .. .. .. 71 72 74 74 73 76 73 67 68

4 star petrol: per 100 litres
United Kingdom 2 51 44 63 70 69 75 76 79 80 83 81 74 76
Austria .. .. 59 65 65 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
Belgium 60 53 65 70 72 75 75 75 74 77 76 64 64
Denmark 39 63 68 70 68 69 74 .. .. .. .. .. ..
Germany 61 52 63 74 74 78 77 74 .. .. .. .. ..
Finland .. .. 56 66 71 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
France 56 60 76 78 78 81 82 81 80 83 81 70 72
Greece .. .. 63 71 75 76 75 72 69 70 67 56 58
Irish Republic 59 45 68 68 67 68 68 66 67 70 69 61 ..
Italy 68 64 77 77 75 77 76 75 74 76 74 66 68
Luxembourg 51 .. 55 62 66 68 71 68 66 69 .. .. ..
Netherlands 62 55 66 75 74 77 77 75 .. .. .. .. ..
Portugal .. .. 71 73 75 74 75 74 73 74 67 .. ..
Spain .. .. 65 72 69 69 70 69 68 71 69 60 60
Sweden .. .. 68 70 75 77 78 79 78 81 78 72 ..

Diesel: per 100 litres
United Kingdom 48 46 57 66 63 68 73 75 77 82 81 74 74
Austria .. .. 54 57 57 58 59 60 58 63 62 54 55
Belgium 45 34 54 61 62 64 65 62 61 64 63 53 54
Denmark .. 29 55 60 60 63 66 66 64 64 61 56 59
Germany 58 50 53 64 63 67 68 64 63 68 67 61 63
Finland .. .. 48 52 53 57 54 62 62 67 63 54 55
France 52 49 59 65 65 70 72 71 70 75 73 62 64
Greece .. .. 17 62 63 67 67 64 62 65 64 52 54
Irish Republic .. 30 58 60 60 60 63 60 63 64 64 55 48
Italy 47 21 66 73 69 70 70 68 68 71 70 60 61
Luxembourg 23 .. 37 51 58 61 63 60 59 63 60 50 52
Netherlands 39 36 50 60 61 65 67 56 63 67 65 56 57
Portugal .. .. 53 59 62 60 64 62 61 64 63 52 51
Spain .. .. 55 64 61 61 64 62 60 64 62 53 54
Sweden .. .. 28 31 43 54 54 59 60 62 60 55 55

Simon S3

I`ve just filled up my Chevy Cavalier (Rented while I`m working in Calgary) and petrol was 23p per litre!

A new Mazda RX8 is 17,700 pounds sterling here.

The cost of living is really cheap here but of course wages are lower so it kind of levels off.

stuckhere

I believe we are the fourth largest oil producer in the world.
Yes cars are cheaper here but then you earn in dollars so its all relative.
I could tell you living here, its not as cheap to live as you think it is.