Tiggs

whats the auto like?

i had a 2.8V6 passat with a steptronic box- it just killed the car and made me wish it was manual.

is the bmw box just another auto or is it a bit sexier than that?

Skittles

The box is actually pretty good - it is also better for resale. The thing to avoid is the SSG (not M3's SMG).

Phil M

Its a little sexier but i'd still go for the manual.

Don't go for the SSG system which is a sequential manual gearbox like the SMG on the M3 but not as good. If your buying brand new the SSG is now SMG but still not as good as the M3 SMG but a helluva lot better!

Manual rocks though, make use of the torque better that way.

Tiggs

how effective is the steptronic side- on the passat it took an age to change once you selected a gear....is the bmw change anywhere near as close as a manual shift?

i guess we arent talking about throttle bliping on downshifts ala ferrari are we?

Phil M

Will add and agree that the auto box is better for resale, think something like 70% of new 330's are auto and the rest are manuals, maybe 5% if that are SSG.. But buy what you want

Phil M

The throttle blips on downshifts are on the SSG and SMG systems which are the same system as ferrari uses (but not same make)

The auto is still an auto in which it slurs the changes but in steptronic the changes are immediate, and with an auto the car doesn't feel as quick as the torque converter blends all the kick out to make it smoother

Tiggs

so when the 330 is in steptonic mode it switches quicker than in auto?

megabusa

The actual gear shift quality will be the same, I reckon most people, at least when the novelty wears off, leave it in 'D'. I would.

Reffro

The BMW Steptronic box is the best auto on the market. I've also used the VW 5-speed tiptronic and the only similarity between them is that they are both very smooth shifters, apart from that the BMW is streaks ahead.

For one in normal auto mode it is nearly faultless, it is very smooth, always in the right gear, its also an adaptive gearbox and adapts its shifts to how you are driving, if you are caning it it holds the gears, driving for economy it moves throught the gears as quick as it can. Only thing is anyone who gets in the car next know's how hard you have been driving it. In short its brilliant. And we still haven't covered the sports auto mode, which is also faultless. Then you have the steptronic shift, which differs from the VW in one very important respect, you choose what gear to use. Unlike the VW the gearbox won't over-ride your choice of gear, aslong as the revs aren't too high it will stay in the gear you choose. Plus you can down shift as you brake and it will remember how many gears you downshifted and move into them as the speed drops. Basically the BMW auto is faultless in my opinion.

The VW gearbox whilst being very smooth, just keeps deciding what it wants to do, which is often against what I want it to be doing, very annoying.

Johnny50

Drove a 330 Sport with an auto box not that long ago.

Very impressed with the speed of the gearchange when using it manually, much better than other cars i've driven with similar style boxs.

Tried a Volvo T6 a few years ago, and it was terrible.

Skittles

On your question re. the steptronic.

I have used the auto box a lot and find the steptronic a bit redundant. The Sport Mode is sweet and tends to change the gear aggressively enough. The steptronic part is OK - it will not change up unless you hit the redline and have the accelerator pedal planted and will ignore the command for a downshift if it is going to 'engage' at very high revs.

My current box is teh M3 SMG, but my last box was the auto and it changed my opinion of auto boxes - very nice!

ajm

ok I know you mentioned that the the bmw system is not the same as the ferrari, but its got to be said that the M3 SMG system is leaps and bounds better than the ferarri "F1" system. Admittedly I have only driven the ferrari gearbox masqueraded as "cambiocorsa" in the new maserati coupe, however it is sluggish and clunky when driven back to back with the E46 M3 SMGII.

polarbearit

ooh - another I can answer...

Its the best autobox I've tried (we had a sharan auto and a passat auto as pool cars previously) and compared to either the change is much faster... Its very quick, will hold onto gears or change lazily if you want - still I think a manual would be more fun.

If I was paying I'd still go for manual as I enjoying changing gear and I wouldn't bother spending out on the auto option as whilst it may be better for resale it probably makes very little real difference if you bear in mind the cost of the option!

Phil M

Thats what i was trying to say, its the same style of gearbox as in a sequential manual but its made by different company.

Also the M3's SMG is the best sequential manual on the market, this beats the 360, 575, Vanquish, Masser... need i say any more.

SJobson

I had a 318i SE (the new 2.0 Valvetronic engine) with 5sp auto last summer, for 2 weeks. I imagine the gearbox is similarly programmed, if not the same, as the 330i's. It's an auto, what can I say? The only use I found for the manual mode was preventing kickdown, since it still changed up itself at high revs and changed down at very low ones.

And for those who say the auto has better resale: £1500-odd better, the same amount as the auto box costs in the first place? I think not...

Roll on my 330i Sport Touring. Manual.

Phil M

It does effect resale, probably more so on the 330 diesel though. You do right buying for yoursrlf though and not what others want when you come to sell.

logiclee

As far as I know...

The 330SSG uses the Magneti Marreli system as used by Ferrari, Massa, Aston and Alfa Romeo. The system also depends on the maximum change speed of the maual box it uses, the Ferrari and Massa are slow and deliberate changes making the SMG systems feel clumsy. Alfa have just issued new software for its selespeeds the difference is unbelievable, changes are a lot smoother and quicker, in fast mode gear changes from lifting power to giving full power back take 250-300milliseconds.

The M3 and the new 330 uses a Bosche system.

Dont forget the SMG and SSG etc are not sequential boxes as used in F1, WRC and motorbikes. They are conventional H pattern manuals that are changed by a computer controlled actuator system, its only the control system that's sequential. They usually use the same gearbox as the manual. If the manual has a slow and mechanical clunky change so will the SMG type.

If you have only had a test drive in an SMG car you will not like it. Its like learning to drive a manual for the first time. It takes a couple of weeks for the system to "feel" natural and to not to have to think about what you are doing. It also takes a few weeks to learn to drive them smoothly around town, you cant just lift off and dip the clutch like in a manual but you learn to feather the throttle.

When Clarkson was trying to reverse the Aston on TopGear I was pi55ing myself. He was stopping then applying the brakes, pressing the buttons etc.etc. In a manual you don't stop, then operate the clutch, then select reverse, then the power etc all in individual movemnets the manouver is a flow of things happening at the same time. Its the same with the SMG gearboxes as you are coming to a stop you have the foot on the brake so just as you come to a stop you select reverse then apply the power and reverse, it becomes natural.

You wouldn't expect someone who has never driven a manual to pick it up in a half hour drive and its the same with SMG's

I love em.

Lee


[Edited by logiclee - 6/27/2003 11:36:50 PM]

logiclee

Just on the Autobox side my Uncle had a 530D Auto not sure if its the same box but he didn't like it and I didn't the few times I drove it.

The learning logic would adapt to you driving style alright but if you have been driving smoothly for a while then fancied a blast it is slow to adapt. By the time its decided you are driving fast and adapted you are probably driving smoothly again and now the box is hanging onto gears and changing down early.
I found the whole thing a bit frustrating.

On the other hand the changes are smooth and fast and when its doing what you want it to do its a first class autobox.

My Uncle now has a Merc E320CDi and rates the autobox in that far higher than the BMW unit.

Lee

[Edited by logiclee - 6/27/2003 11:40:29 PM]

Phil M

lee

everything you put about the smg ssg and how they work is spot on, i just couldnt be botherd to write it..