Integrale - What to look for advise needed
22 May 2003, 11:30 AM
#1
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The UK300 goes next week (just to much of a luxury/money for the miles it is doing, only 7K on average per year), and i am looking at getting an Integrale as "the run around" instead, less financing cost, lower insurance etc
What do i need to look out for, any simple pointers most welcome, and you are most welcome Paul (Palmer) to attend any viewings that may come up.
Cheers
Jim
22 May 2003, 11:44 AM
#2
Jim
Rust is the main thing and stress fractures on the chassis. Rust happens on the rear edge of the roof due to a rubber strip that seals the boot. Also history such as cam belt changes because these are due every 25,000 miles
There is a very good specialist in high wycombe and a good one in reading that doesn't cost the earth. Anything you want to know?
Paul
Rust is the main thing and stress fractures on the chassis. Rust happens on the rear edge of the roof due to a rubber strip that seals the boot. Also history such as cam belt changes because these are due every 25,000 miles
There is a very good specialist in high wycombe and a good one in reading that doesn't cost the earth. Anything you want to know?Paul
22 May 2003, 12:23 PM
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PP, i knew you wouldnt direct that at me!! lol
My sincere advice would be to source one from a club or something, with some history and loving owners!!!
i know someone with a HFTurbo, who has spent shed loads keeping it on the road.... god knows what it would have cost him to replace the same/similar stuff on an integrale!!!!
I personally wouldnt risk sinking dosh into something like this, but hey, its not my money, and if its something you've always wanted, go for it!!
all the best
BB
have a look here http://www.whalley-integrale.uk.com/buying.htm
[Edited by beemerboy - 5/22/2003 12:24:30 PM]
My sincere advice would be to source one from a club or something, with some history and loving owners!!!
i know someone with a HFTurbo, who has spent shed loads keeping it on the road.... god knows what it would have cost him to replace the same/similar stuff on an integrale!!!!
I personally wouldnt risk sinking dosh into something like this, but hey, its not my money, and if its something you've always wanted, go for it!!
all the best
BB
have a look here http://www.whalley-integrale.uk.com/buying.htm
[Edited by beemerboy - 5/22/2003 12:24:30 PM]
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22 May 2003, 04:17 PM
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Be careful.
A mate gave me his Evo Kat to sell. I ran it for 6 months and spend a lot of time working on it in that time. Although it appeared OK and came with £6500 of bills from Walkers it had 14 MOT failures. The killers were structural rust on A pillars (Which didnt look bad as most was behind the screen rubbers), the already mentioned rear roof rust,subframe mountings, plus assorted areas of chassis corrosion.
Great car to drive, fantastic handling, characterful engine but poor quality steel used in manufacture, dire electrics, fragile trim. Sold it for peanuts as a project.
Im biased to Audis but what a contrast to the older 140,000 mile Ur Quattro I owned at the same time. Great drive, totally reliable, never broke.
The Grale is a great car for somebody else to own! (All IMHO)
A mate gave me his Evo Kat to sell. I ran it for 6 months and spend a lot of time working on it in that time. Although it appeared OK and came with £6500 of bills from Walkers it had 14 MOT failures. The killers were structural rust on A pillars (Which didnt look bad as most was behind the screen rubbers), the already mentioned rear roof rust,subframe mountings, plus assorted areas of chassis corrosion.
Great car to drive, fantastic handling, characterful engine but poor quality steel used in manufacture, dire electrics, fragile trim. Sold it for peanuts as a project.
Im biased to Audis but what a contrast to the older 140,000 mile Ur Quattro I owned at the same time. Great drive, totally reliable, never broke.
The Grale is a great car for somebody else to own! (All IMHO)
22 May 2003, 04:51 PM
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Pauls mentioned most of it.
With the doors open pull off the door seal from the body. At the top of the A-post there are sometimes stress cracks. Check at bottom of A post as well.
RHD conversions - less good than the original LHD
Rust - main problem areas - around windscreens front and back due to blocked drain holes. Around sunroof and also trailing edge of tailgate.
Check panel gaps and paint quality for evidence of prangs.
Check underneath for evidence of rallying.
** IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE RUNNING COSTS DON'T BUY ONE **
With the doors open pull off the door seal from the body. At the top of the A-post there are sometimes stress cracks. Check at bottom of A post as well.
RHD conversions - less good than the original LHD
Rust - main problem areas - around windscreens front and back due to blocked drain holes. Around sunroof and also trailing edge of tailgate.
Check panel gaps and paint quality for evidence of prangs.
Check underneath for evidence of rallying.
** IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE RUNNING COSTS DON'T BUY ONE **
22 May 2003, 04:55 PM
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I though my comment was pretty spot on. I don't think its the right thing to do to go from something as reliable as a scoob, to what is widely regarded as an unreliable ****e pile.
I think the car looks and goes great, but i've never heard anything good about them apart from that.
I think the car looks and goes great, but i've never heard anything good about them apart from that.
22 May 2003, 05:04 PM
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My mate had one - with Leda 2.5 inch coilovers; amazing round the twisties. 8v KAT
He spent a fortune keeping it on the road (says the man having spent £7,000 on the Merc since November)
Great car - but a million and one niggly little faults. The engine killed itself due to a faulty oil filter non-drain valve.
He loved it to bits, but it nearly bankrupted him
The boys who serviced it loved it though!!!
Not slating them - just be aware that like all performance motors of that era, you'll deep pockets to keep it going. The problem starts when you first drive one (M3, UR-q, Grale, Cossie, Merc-Cossie included) - you'll fall in love with it, and then you're stuffed.
the sensible choice would be to keep the Scoob...
He spent a fortune keeping it on the road (says the man having spent £7,000 on the Merc since November)
Great car - but a million and one niggly little faults. The engine killed itself due to a faulty oil filter non-drain valve.
He loved it to bits, but it nearly bankrupted him
The boys who serviced it loved it though!!!
Not slating them - just be aware that like all performance motors of that era, you'll deep pockets to keep it going. The problem starts when you first drive one (M3, UR-q, Grale, Cossie, Merc-Cossie included) - you'll fall in love with it, and then you're stuffed.
the sensible choice would be to keep the Scoob...
22 May 2003, 10:23 PM
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Zilch,
I've had 4 of em'(8v,16v, Evo 1 & Ev0 2) and all were fantastic to drive WHEN they were running o.k, seriously they are v.expensive to maintain correctly.
Rust is a problem as has been said above, this even applies to the last Evo 2 Kat dealer collection cars, as is stess fractures.
Suspension bushes etc. are v.poor quality and don't last long unless upgraded. Geometry settings on suspension need to be spot on or things just wear out v.quick and keeping it set up correctly is expensive.
Don't listen to anyone who says they know someone who can service it for you cheaply etc, it still costs a packet.
All that said if you want one real bad and can afford it go for it ! but with an open mind and wallet ! Go for Evo2 Kat and get Evo 1 big turbo fitted. They seriously have more 'soul' than the Jap stuff.
I loved mine but have finally got them out of my system - still get sentimental when i see one going down the road though !.
Viva Lancia...Ciao
I've had 4 of em'(8v,16v, Evo 1 & Ev0 2) and all were fantastic to drive WHEN they were running o.k, seriously they are v.expensive to maintain correctly.
Rust is a problem as has been said above, this even applies to the last Evo 2 Kat dealer collection cars, as is stess fractures.
Suspension bushes etc. are v.poor quality and don't last long unless upgraded. Geometry settings on suspension need to be spot on or things just wear out v.quick and keeping it set up correctly is expensive.
Don't listen to anyone who says they know someone who can service it for you cheaply etc, it still costs a packet.
All that said if you want one real bad and can afford it go for it ! but with an open mind and wallet ! Go for Evo2 Kat and get Evo 1 big turbo fitted. They seriously have more 'soul' than the Jap stuff.
I loved mine but have finally got them out of my system - still get sentimental when i see one going down the road though !.
Viva Lancia...Ciao
23 May 2003, 10:05 AM
#19
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Ok, they really are a well engineered quality car, you win
Zilch
I have had a 16V and now have a Evo1, they really are great cars to drive. Don't let some negative comments put you off trying one, there are some decent cars for sale, you just need a bit of patience when trying to find one.
Give John Whalley a ring (01279 654181)and have a chat. John knows loads about Integrales and also might know of a car suitable for you.
You could also checkout the FAQ section on the Evoforum for more info - http://forums.delphiforums.com/evoforum
Hope this helps
23 May 2003, 10:36 AM
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thanks to everyone for their replies, will consider it over the weekend, work out the finance and potential risk and make a decision. Paul will keep you posted
Cheers
Jim
Cheers
Jim
23 May 2003, 11:19 AM
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Jim,
Don't be frightened by the horror stories - buy the right Grale and you will have a supercar classic with loads more personality than anything out of Japan.
...but buy a turkey and you will pay dear. Preferably take someone with you who knows about them. Check out www.evocars.com - I would recommend Barry (the owner) over L&M and definitely over Walkers, who sell overpriced ****e. Barry or Auto Integrale will do you an inspection for about £100. I can't recommend this strongly enough, it really could save you thousands. Also try the Evoforum, which is at http://forums.delphiforums.com/evoforum
Regardless of what you buy, you really will need to budget for at least £2k a year on maintenance (not counting pads/tyres). Skimp on servicing and it will bite you on the ****.
I've had my Evo1 for 3 years and I wouldn't swap it for any other car. Even my brother has chopped in his Ferrari for one!
Rob
Don't be frightened by the horror stories - buy the right Grale and you will have a supercar classic with loads more personality than anything out of Japan.
...but buy a turkey and you will pay dear. Preferably take someone with you who knows about them. Check out www.evocars.com - I would recommend Barry (the owner) over L&M and definitely over Walkers, who sell overpriced ****e. Barry or Auto Integrale will do you an inspection for about £100. I can't recommend this strongly enough, it really could save you thousands. Also try the Evoforum, which is at http://forums.delphiforums.com/evoforum
Regardless of what you buy, you really will need to budget for at least £2k a year on maintenance (not counting pads/tyres). Skimp on servicing and it will bite you on the ****.
I've had my Evo1 for 3 years and I wouldn't swap it for any other car. Even my brother has chopped in his Ferrari for one!
Rob
23 May 2003, 12:56 PM
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Rob, thanks for the offer, you will have to meet Paul who lives in Marlow, who as a nice red example (which i have yet to see). Got an email address ??
Thanks
Jim
Thanks
Jim
23 May 2003, 01:11 PM
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Jim,
I've had a couple of chats with Paul on here. Work e-mail is robert.g.hardy@jpmorganfleming.com
I know a guy called Jon ("Monzaevo") on the Evoforum is selling his red Evo right now. It's a tidy car which I have seen many times and can vouch for.
Rob
I've had a couple of chats with Paul on here. Work e-mail is robert.g.hardy@jpmorganfleming.com
I know a guy called Jon ("Monzaevo") on the Evoforum is selling his red Evo right now. It's a tidy car which I have seen many times and can vouch for.
Rob
23 May 2003, 05:14 PM
#30
I have got a HEAVILY modded 16v Integrale sat in my garage at the moment and I would agree with most posts here......Wonderful to look at, very quick and sticks to the road like 'you-know-what' to a blanket.....BUT!!! it is very tempremental and as said before, the running costs are high....can be very high!.....there always seems to be something that needs tweaking or adjusting....
All said and done though.....I don't regret it!
I am actually looking to get rid of mine for a scoob!!! Wanna swap!?!
All said and done though.....I don't regret it!
I am actually looking to get rid of mine for a scoob!!! Wanna swap!?!