Flyboy-F33

Just read the long threads about what killed the Brit car industry and very interesting it was too.

I would be interested to hear what MGJohn and others think of MG/Rover as a company now, and where they see them in the next 5 years? Are they heading in the right direction? comments please.

chrispy200+

iTrader: (2)

Personally i feel that they are heading in the right direction, although to get over the bad views people have of them wil be difficult.

The new MG range seem to be selling well as you deo see a lot of them about. With the launch of the new models as well this should help.

Aparantley they had the new car at the festival at brands hatch on sunday going round. 500bhp with options of up to around 950bhp using factory fitted nitrous

GTI

I personally feel that yes in some ways they are heading in the right direction, as Crispy said the new supercar. But when it comes to there ordinary cars I think less so, they (in my opionion) need to break the two makes apart, i.e seperate dealerships, new cars with completley different designs, so therefore opening to a widing market audience - in the same way that VW has, they split Seat and Audi into the sporty side and Skoda and VW into the traditional side.
I think it would help the depreication disaster which they are at present!
Also they need to get new cars out now, even the "new" (to Rover that is) 75 is getting to the end of its market life. But especially with the 25/45 which basically date back to 96, 7 years is far too long. They also need a supermini, VW Lupo etc rivalling car - also if they can't carry on with the prices their charging if they're not planning to replace the model range for a while.

So in otherwords no there not in my opinion heading in the right direction!

[Edited by GTI - 5/21/2003 5:35:56 PM]

dnb

They are heading in the right direction, but not fast enough IMHO.
The competition is slowly leaving them behind.

They also need to stop the annoying habbit of down speccing the cars... The cost of purchasing an MGTF has increased for me by over £100 due to some things becomming extras instead of standard.

These same things were standard on the competition. (MX5) OK, it's not much, but it is a buyers market...

Also, the build quality is not as high as it ought to be - a reasonably new ZT (no accidents as far as I know) had some shut lines worse than a badly bodged accident repair. OK, I know that it's probably a trivial adjustment, but the fact is that it wasn't done...

When you compare it with what Mazda etc. (trying to think up similar priced cars here...) are turning out, then I question the price/quality ratio. It doesn't help with the depreciation.

47 NAT

I'd like to think that they can really turn things around for the better. Its had its fair share of bad luck over the years, but shaking off the reliabilty and cr4p customer services will be a task on its own...but good luck to them, they deserve it!

Nath

Flyboy-F33

No comments from MG John yet?

beemerboy

FB, he's probably under the bonnet himself right now!! LOL

BB

NACRO

I can't see them making a success out of the current operation. The cars they produce just are not competitive in the market.

Old designs (except the 75) plans to sell TATA's!!! and an alliance with China Brilliance (I think) to sell some awful looking budget supermini are hardly the hallmarks of a go ahead company with a bright future. Ditto the warmed over old rover "MG's"

NotoriousREV

They desperately need new models.

2 generation old Honda Civics, a retro saloon and a "sports" car made from 2 Metro subframes aren't the ultimate range, I'm afraid.

I also thought BLMC had proven badge engineering didn't work in the 60's? Are the same people still in charge at MG Rover?

MGJohn

beemerChild WROTE:

>> FB, he's probably under the bonnet himself right now!! LOL

BB


WRONG!!! in spades krautmobile sucker-upper ... mutter, mutter Gerry built, mutter ... ... only kidding.

Missed me eh/ Nice to be missed ..... Reason for prolonged absence .... Picked up the new MG ZS yesterday and been cruising ever since .... not bad at all ... quite nice in fact and a real head turner ..... which was an unexpected bonus. Still prefer driving my various turbos though .. Montego, Maestro and Tomcat.... and getting up the noses of certain owners or certain alien marques who can't understand why their cars fail to keep up with them ... I kid you not. Just because it's got a BM/Merc-B logo on it does not automatically equate to faster ...

Par example: Merc driving, going places, well turned out, you wouldn't say no, 28ish career type female tailgated me recently in my old D reg Turbo. So, as opportunity allowed, then politely moved over to allow her to pass whilst at same time applying a little throttle. With my drivers window open I could hear her engine revs of her car alongside mine near their peak limit. Then, floored it and left her and her over rated/priced teutonic wheels for dead! I kid you not. In my mirror I could see she was actually pounding her steering wheel with a well clenched gloved fist. Does exist but rarely see feminine road rage but that example may come close.... Great looking female though, if a little brainwashed.... My car cost a little loose change ( yes, I know I was robbed ...) she's still paying for hers .....

Well ..... helps to pass the time .... and brought a smile to my face. AND yes, beemerchild, they frequently hold me up. I know you struggle to believe this, but as you're obviously a transport enthusiast first as opposed to merely a "BMWs are always best freak", we surely will have some things in common. You'd be welcome to try one of my cars ....not the ZS .... and maybe, just maybe have those severe blinkers, if not completely removed, at least opened.... By the way, some of my more resourceful MG turbo enthusiasts friends have cars which will leave mine for dead .... awesome plus on loose change ...

Still looking for more excuses for getting behind the wheel before handing the ZS over to my other half .... who I originally ordered it for. Trip up north to collect those MGF wheels I bought ... look nice on one of the Montys .... S'pose I'll have to creep around in my old turbos after all..... tough! BTW, you're all doing a good job .... keep spreading the word folks that they are ALL crap. Thanks .... Keeps their prices well suppressed otherwise I simply could not afford to keep so many fun cars on the road.....

Now where are those ZS keys ...

Oh yeah ... nearly forgot ... I'll be back ....

Safety Fast MotorinG ... whatever you drive ....

MGJohn

beemerboy ....

More seriously ... I've been around a long time and during that time, I've kept my eyes and ears open. Sadly, I sincerely believe that for numerous and varied reasons, we Brits have become excellent at getting things wrong at all levels. I see no real evidence to believe otherwise. So, yes I fear for MG-Rs survival ... I've done my bit over the forty years of driving .... right up until yesterday's new MGZS.... so a closing question ...

Where's your'n' made ....

beemerboy

MGJohn, if you know anything about me, you will realise that i took my car apert and replaced every nut and bolt backagain myself, so it was built here!!!

hehehe bit touchy today aren't we???

t'was only a joke you moron.

BB - (pushes yet another MG outta the fast lane) LOL

Boss Hogg

MG John - after you applied 'light throttle' in the Montego Turbo, the blonde probably backed off hurredly when she saw you torque steering all over the road....

ahhh, they were fast in a straight line - when you could get them to go in a traight line. Bit the 'boggo' MG montegos were actually quite tasty motors at the time - esp the MY89 with the deep spoilers...

MGJohn

Boss Hawg,

Consume the bullshine if you so desire. Provided they're set up correctly THERE IS NO TORQUE STEER.... even when a little tweaked with in excess of 200 bhp. I repeat ... carry on spreading the good word .... BTW, read again ... no backing off ... her motor was alongside remember and clearly reaching peak revs. That's the time to apply the horses ....

beemerCHILD

Not touchy at all ... If I knew anything about you ... all I know so far is that you're a severely blinkered mono dimensional BMW type ... and it shows. You've been hoisted by your own wossname when you say ...>> fast lane << Who's the moron? Fast Lane! No such 'kin' thing!! Typical BMW driver remark..... plonker.

BTW, Why did it need a UK rebuild? Falling apart? ... Montoya was joyous with his superior power plant on Sunday ... did you notice that? ... superior build ....

Obviously knowing it all, you're both beyond further education ... carry on consuming the BS. .... and thanks for the laughs.

He who larfs last, laughs ad infi-wossname .. Get outa here youz guys ...

RichiW

Rover - nuff said!

Mmmmm

BMW made huge losses at Rover with the controling family nearly having to sell BMW.

MG Rover got superb deal from BMW, £10 the company cost them they got given £500 million and a huge loan effectively interest free no repayable until 50 years or something. (please note this is just from memory)

However, they are virtually giving thier cars away and have been wasting loads developing, very high performance models and sports/supercars out with thier normal range, that are unlikely to sell many units and are of low profitability. They should be concentrating on the core market and trying to develop new mainstream models, they have had several wierd and wonderful schemes to sell car production to Poland and China, none of which have come off.

They are very lucky though and thier accountants are superb, so they will probably scrape by for a bit, but they do manage to come back from the brink.

Denzil_Dog

i predict DEATH

NotoriousREV

Denzil_Dog,

When does your MG ZR get ordered?

Rover Boi!!!!!

Denzil_Dog

never [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] i will keep just use the bike !!!

[Edited by Denzil_Dog - 5/23/2003 11:32:39 AM]

Turbo_Picky

there it is again!!!!

Picky.

remember as a child, looking in through a cars driver window and seeing how far the speedo went up to, was the be-all and end-all of finding the cars top speed.

well i once looked inside an MG and it went up to eighty!!!
they could have saved production costs there by not using the 8 and 0 letraset characters on any of their cars.

hahahahahahahahahaah

Picky

Boss Hogg

Bullshine - or moonshine? Arm ah goin' to git them dukes...

MGJohn - as much as you love MG Montego Turbos, my old man ws principal engineer in the EH lab at Gaydon from the 70s to the early 90s and did a lot of the chassis development work on them, and he hated them - they just couldn't get them to handle correctly (ie at all).

So I speak from from basis of knowledge - not just having a pop

MGJohn

OKay youz guys! It's diagrams for the simpletons time.... and yes, here's that word yet again ....

Bullshine = POLISHED TOID ... a variation on the BS theme .... need more diagrams? ... just say the woid....

picky-turdo ..... those childhood memories (last week was it? ) .... That's the Tachometer dummy! ..... need more diagrams? ... TACHOMETER ... the thinggie what counts the revs ....

Ahhh Childhood memories .... my old mum, god rest her, told me I was breast fed until quite late .... almost 9 p.m. Probably explains why I've been a sucker for big uns ever since ...

Saftey Fast MotorinG ... Whatever you drive.

MGJohn

Boss Hawg,

Pop away y'all .... Just cos your 'old man' failed to make them handle, doesn't necessarily mean others also failed to do so .....

Things move on .... I too speak from direct experience ... agreed, the finest available .... have a nice one

MGJohn

Boss Hogg,

More seriously, and trying to be fair; was that not the time when such R and D work was shall we say, a little under funded? Always difficult to perform with so many financial constraints and both hands tied behind your back.

P.S. Did you whop them Dukes ??

dnb

I agree that standard Montegos are dreadful (Well my father-in-law's hateful turbo diesel is...) I've not been in an MG montego, so I can't comment on that.

You have to remember that it's not easy being a production engineer. If a £50 part makes the car handle superbly, it will cost £50 for EVERY car made. It soon adds up, and Accounting won't let you do it. Not to mention, if it makes the ride (more ) uncomfortable, Marketing won't let you do it either, and you end up with the compromise - you either do nothing, or you fit the crappy £1 part that makes it more tolerable, but won't set the pulse racing...

OK, it's a bit over simplified, but it's true...

Problems can be fixed, but at a price. Mass production is all about low unit cost and broad spectrum appeal.

One of the reasons I like the "classic" Scoobs is that they are less compromised.

fatherpierre

Can't the £50 part be added to car's price? Or swallowed up?

dnb

The £50 was meant to be illustrative of "an amount of money"...

It could be £50 or £500 or even £5000. Either way, increasing the price of the car can push the product out of it's target market, and the accountants get awfully upset when you lower the profit margin. And the R&D engineers get REALLY upset when they don't get a sensible budget for the second year running!

I was really trying to say is that it's comaparitively easy to tailor the requirements of your own car to you than for a company to make a 50,000 cars suit 50,000 different people, all for a bargain price.

Note that your £50 part per car cost £1/2 a million and say you sell the cars for £5000 each at a margin of 5% (not unrealistic) then you will lose 10% of your profits, or have to increase costs - and since your competition sell cars for £5020 that work a little bit better, you lose out, as their product is now cheaper and better than yours... (Another oversimplified example, but I hope you get the idea.)

I suppose this illustrates where MG Rover is now, along with other parts of British industry.

dnb

You might be able to tell that I'm a little bored! I'll go away soon...

fatherpierre

DOH! Sorry!

But scrimping on development often mean a **** product. As was highlighted by Rover's output in the 70s 80s 90s..... oh since they began.

m4rk rs

father pierre please be constructive in this debate..any car can be made to handle,otherwise the companies selling susp kits to evo/imprezza/elises/etc would have no market.....my cars ok though

mark