Andy.F

Can't get a word in on the original thread so I have reposted here.

Just 'suppose' you were tasked with creating a car capable of overall honours at the 'Ten of the best' challenge in August
It will probably need to do the 1/4 mile in 9.something. Top out at over 200mph and handle exceptionally well on a slalom course.

The main opposition is likely to be from 6-700bhp well developed Escort Cosworths, Skylines with up to 1000bhp and a nippy 700+bhp Evo.

Someone has given you £20k and the only limitations are that the car must be identifiable as a mass produced saloon/sports car, be road legal, steel bodied and have a roof.

What would you use/build as your weapon ?

Andy.F

My initial thinking was a 106/saxo with a mid engine chevy V8, questions as to the stability at speed made me reconsider.

A Honda CRX (MY90) has a very low CdA ie not much power required to propell it at high MPH, the overall drag is 70% of a Subaru Impreza for example. It is also very light at 800kg. A front/rear wing could be added to aid downforce/stability without making the drag excessive ?

The problem with the Chevy V8 is getting a transaxle to handle the torque so I was thinking of using a Scoob engine bored to 2.5 and mated to a scoob gearbox. Sitting in the back seat area driving the rear wheels from the original front shaft outputs. A spool or some form of locking device would be in place of the centre diff to ensure full torque to the 'front' diff.

Question - Is the front diff going to handle the power ??

Andy

LG John

Now that would cause a stir in the saxo ranks

Would that not big time screw up its handling though?

Andy.F

A little I guess ! however the weight would be in the back seat area, did your saxo's handling disappear when you had 2 blokes in the rear ? or did it just feel a bit slow ?

The scoob engine however only weighs as much as one fat bird

FASTER MIKE!!

why not twin engine your scoob 432bhp for the front wheels and 432bhp for the rear wheels. an 864bhp scooby would take some keeping up with.

mike

[Edited by FASTER MIKE!! - 4/15/2003 7:08:47 PM]

dhorwich

How about a nissan 200sx (older shape)..

You can pick these up for around £2000..!! they are pretty aerodynamic and have rear wheel drive..!

Then you have £18k to spend on engine, handling and gear box..!!

Or an MR2 turbo these can be had for £3000..!! and everyone seems to rave about the 3S-GTE engine potential..!

Dan

dhorwich

or like you said a crx... but with a 2.2 VTEC lump from a prelude and then slap a nice big turbo on it... seems to be the norm over in the states..!

Dan

Kev_turbo

No contest, it is well known that the quickest and best handling car on the road is an E reg Nova 1.3SR (in beige with the burberry look interior)driven by a 12 year old lookalike with his baseball cap on the wrong way around.

Who needs £20K.

Kev

Andy.F

Hey Mike I'd looked at that but due to weight transfer I recon I would not be able to use much front engine power until too high a speed

Andy.F

Bond bug and Nova might just take off (or fall apart) at 200mph ???

MR2 is more rear engined isn't it ? 200sx looks quite 'slippy' but the CdA is higher than a CRX (not much area to a CRX)

dhorwich

Yea but the CRX is front wheel drive...!! unless you can modify it to rear..!! isnt there a limit to the amount of power you can efficiently put through a front wheel drive car..???

Dan

dhorwich

MR2 is mid-engined..

Dan

[Edited by dhorwich - 4/15/2003 7:48:59 PM]

Andy.F

Re CRX - throw away front engine, fit scoob eng and box in rear seat area, drive rear wheels from scoob front shafts

Gareth Allan

Andy,

would it be cheating to panel over your old fugitive?

You'll probably end up basically building a rallycross or silouhette special.
Gareth

Andy.F

Old Fugitive is alive and kicking, new owner wants me to fit a supercharger to it
I was thinking something along those lines but maybe use the scoob engine to save weight and improve handling ?? Although the fugitive was a decent handling car, lapping knockhill on road tyres at the same pace as a Y2K BTTC

Gareth Allan

trying to think of mid engined 4x4s but only come up with a diablo vt - you might get agearbox from one of those fo 20K

Gareth Allan

6r4
rs200

Pavlo

I have been thinking of building "a car".

First I started with 2 bike engines commoned after final drive, either transverse or box to box, I did drawings for both, based on a (long) 2700-2800 wheelbase.

My first though was Al honeycomb with cut and shut bends, but I do know some friends at Advanced Composites in Derby (free plug, go there if you need any material or specialist moulding).

Anyway, seeing as I have a (monster) scoob engine in the making, why not use the g/box as a transaxle. Funnily enough I found someone doing this with a NA engine on a single seater formula Vee style.

Anyway, building something from a production shell is another matter. Citreon BX 4x4???!!! Hey don't laugh I used to have one, I thought after a while it was crap (it was slow in a straight line) but it did corner well when off the bump stops.

God I'm rambling, too much of some cracking red, (thanks nom).

Thinking seriously now for a moment, I would say the CRX is a good start, and I know you've been pushing the idea around for a while. Getting an all alloy LS1 engine might be nice, worked for LeMans. The alloy block and heads saves some 50kg from memory, but if you're custom building I would have to wonder at the value of forced induction, simply down to the cost and weight issues.

What about adapting a kit car? Something like a turbo rover v8 Fisher Fury? Also there have been a few articles of late about budget racers in CCC. There was a nice calibra turbo 4x4 saloon racer a few months back.

decisions decisions

paul

kevin sharp

one of those wide arch racing puma things with engine and
running gear same spec as my escorts

LG John

It probably helped plant the rear end a little better which could feel light and snappy (read fun ) when you're on your tod.

That isn't a great comparison though because you'd be taken an engine (weight) out the front (I assume). Would doing that not leave it tail heavy and give it awkward handling? I'm thinking like the Clio V6 - overly snappy!

[Edited by Saxo Boy - 4/15/2003 9:41:17 PM]

kevin sharp

oops i just noticed the 20k budget.....scrap the cossied
puma then LOL

Andy.F

Puma is a nice bodyshell but still a bit expensive secondhand
The widebody 206 is another cracker You can buy a complete 1 piece kevlar bodyshell for around £1500, they use them for short circuit racing (hot rods) but there is a lot of work building the chassis from scratch, then making windows, opening doors etc.

On a mid eng car the fuel tank/pumps/battery/radiator/oil cooler all sit where the original front eng would have been, helps to balance it.

The renault is a bit like the MR2 is it not, where the engine sits at the back, on top of the box rather than fully in front as per the scoob ?

Kev, your running gear in my little Sylva Striker It's like a westfield but a bit smaller Pity its no roof It's rapid with a 160 bhp bike engine, another, say 400bhp would just be sooooooooo much fun !

TaviaRS

Is there a weighting given to the various disciplines? Or is it that if you have a car with a high top speed and immense accelerative abilities, but lousy handling, you will win? Could I for example fit a top fuel dragster engine to my Skoda and wipe the floor with everyone?

David_Wallis

Hmm...

Dan I think your missing the point.. when andy says transaxle the least of his worries are it not being rwd... are you considering bolting direct to it with no prop as well ???

Andy Forget the subaru engine... gearboxes are like chocolate and allways will be... 4 - 5 litre v8 with a couple of GT30's
Decent Autobox to save work.. Rover SD1 back Axle ?

If you go scoob route and lock the diff then you will need to seal where the prop fits.. (easy enough)

Possibly worth looking at a transmission cooler though...

Nitrous is a must also..

What about compound charging the above?

David

Andy.F

I think the scoob box would be ok with a set of Holinger gears in there, question remains re the front diff ?

Not convinced on the front eng rwd route for a big power road car ?
too much traction issues, my old mid eng car was quicker off the line than a 4wd scoob....even matched it in the rain !!

I considered a big V8 with a 4wd auto box, like a monster truck but built into a teensy lightweight bodyshell waaaaaaaaaa

David_Wallis

Has to be mid engined for ease...

Cage it first hang engine in right place... weld mounts in..

Am I missing owt?

David_Wallis

how about this

its up for £100

Andy.F

with the Cd of a brick !

iain atkins

Andy,

How about a fiat 126, CD would be like a brick, but it would still be a damn good crack

or indeed

And they weigh naff all, rear wheel drive as standard.

I did have plans for my girlfriends 126 once (hyabusa engine etc), but it never happend.


Iain

Andy.F

Wicked......but odd ! I was going for the stealth look, std from outside, perhaps the tyres look a bit wide being the only clue