Porsche 944 S2
06 April 2003, 02:32 PM
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Private about £7k should buy a good one, unless you're scared of miles.
I've had 3 turbos and 1 S2.
I ran the S2 from 120,000 to 147,000 miles. In that time I had to replace the cams because the chain hadn't been replaced soon enough and the sprockets were knackered (they aren't checked as part of Porsche servicing and my car had been serviced by the supplying dealer from new). I also had to replace some of the cam belt tensioner rollers because the bearings were shot. All of that work cost £2k including 24,000 miles worth of servicing. Other than that it was just tyres and fuel.
The Turbo is slightly (<10%) worse on fuel and not a lot quicker than the S2 and also needs an oil change at 6,000 miles as well as the 12,000 mile servicing the S2 needs. Later turbos look like holding their value better, have leather and climate as well as LSD and it's cheap and easy to get a bit more out of a Turbo. The S2 is very difficult to improve by tuning.
I sold my S2 to get another late Turbo which I then tuned to around 330bhp. After a MAF conversion the Turbo is better on fuel than the S2 was and has virtually no turbo lag.
I had to refurb the current Turbo's brakes, but they are the same as the S2's and the problem is that there are steel plates designed to protect the aluminium from excessive wear by the steel brake pads and these corrode and swell over time, eventually sticking the whole calliper up. This occurs after roughly 10 years.
Turbo head gaskets also go after about 10 years (regardless of miles - they go brittle) and I had this too. They don't have the camchain that the 16 valve S2 has though and personally I'd rather pay to replace a gasket than cams.
The other possible problems are common to both cars as well; noisy gearbox bearings (2 possibilities, both well under £500 to fix - or just liev with the noise - I've never had one do this to any great extent). The front suspension arms need replacing if the bushes wear out. You can have them machined by two or three specialists to take care of this though and it's £400 to fix (I've never had to do this either). Power steering can howl when moving slowly (and turning the wheel). This does no harm but a fluid change helps to reduce embarrassment. Gear change can be stiff, but that's just lubrication required to the bushes in the linkage. Fuel lines corrode under the drivers-side rear wheel arch and they cost lots to replace - mostly labour because the rear suspension has to come off, but you can have it done using flexible hose to make the job much quicker and hence cheaper (and avoid having to have the geometry reset).
Personally then after an early Turbo and a cheap (and very rough) Turbo SE I sold on rather than sorted out I switched from my only S2 back to a Turbo - for the extra toys and tunability, but I'm currently looking for an S2 Cabrio to use every day, keeping the Turbo coupe for fun and trackdays, so I'm not biased either way.
That's about it - let me know if I can help more though.
Fen
I've had 3 turbos and 1 S2.
I ran the S2 from 120,000 to 147,000 miles. In that time I had to replace the cams because the chain hadn't been replaced soon enough and the sprockets were knackered (they aren't checked as part of Porsche servicing and my car had been serviced by the supplying dealer from new). I also had to replace some of the cam belt tensioner rollers because the bearings were shot. All of that work cost £2k including 24,000 miles worth of servicing. Other than that it was just tyres and fuel.
The Turbo is slightly (<10%) worse on fuel and not a lot quicker than the S2 and also needs an oil change at 6,000 miles as well as the 12,000 mile servicing the S2 needs. Later turbos look like holding their value better, have leather and climate as well as LSD and it's cheap and easy to get a bit more out of a Turbo. The S2 is very difficult to improve by tuning.
I sold my S2 to get another late Turbo which I then tuned to around 330bhp. After a MAF conversion the Turbo is better on fuel than the S2 was and has virtually no turbo lag.
I had to refurb the current Turbo's brakes, but they are the same as the S2's and the problem is that there are steel plates designed to protect the aluminium from excessive wear by the steel brake pads and these corrode and swell over time, eventually sticking the whole calliper up. This occurs after roughly 10 years.
Turbo head gaskets also go after about 10 years (regardless of miles - they go brittle) and I had this too. They don't have the camchain that the 16 valve S2 has though and personally I'd rather pay to replace a gasket than cams.
The other possible problems are common to both cars as well; noisy gearbox bearings (2 possibilities, both well under £500 to fix - or just liev with the noise - I've never had one do this to any great extent). The front suspension arms need replacing if the bushes wear out. You can have them machined by two or three specialists to take care of this though and it's £400 to fix (I've never had to do this either). Power steering can howl when moving slowly (and turning the wheel). This does no harm but a fluid change helps to reduce embarrassment. Gear change can be stiff, but that's just lubrication required to the bushes in the linkage. Fuel lines corrode under the drivers-side rear wheel arch and they cost lots to replace - mostly labour because the rear suspension has to come off, but you can have it done using flexible hose to make the job much quicker and hence cheaper (and avoid having to have the geometry reset).
Personally then after an early Turbo and a cheap (and very rough) Turbo SE I sold on rather than sorted out I switched from my only S2 back to a Turbo - for the extra toys and tunability, but I'm currently looking for an S2 Cabrio to use every day, keeping the Turbo coupe for fun and trackdays, so I'm not biased either way.
That's about it - let me know if I can help more though.
Fen
06 April 2003, 09:10 PM
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A guy on the Titanic 944 mailing list (www.titanic.co.uk/944 to subscribe) has just discovered that his head has had a crack for ages. This has let water dilute his oil and that has caused the Nikasil coating on the bores to be damaged so the block is trashed.
IIRC he was quoted £5k for a recon engine by the Porsche dealer (that wasn't the most expensive). He is buying a warranted s/h engine from a trusted Porsche dismantler because he needs the car on the road for Easter (for £2,200 IIRC).
Had he more time (and contrary to what those who 'know' usually say) he could have got the bores recoated for £600. He needs a head (but cracking isn't very common and is S2 specific - the 8v head doesn't suffer AFAIK) but a tired engine would need 3 angle seats and new guides / valves at max (16 valves is going to cost £800 at least though...). Rings are nothing special ditto crank, rods, bearings etc. It won't take an horrific time to rebuild and specialists charge £30/hour upwards for labour.
All that said though, provided the car has been treated with some mechanical sympathy and has been serviced correctly, with decent oil etc. then they go on and on.
My Turbo is currently in bits after 153,000 miles but only because I holed the sump. When its head gasket went (149k) I spent a fair bit rebuilding the top end and modding it with a hybrid turbo, MAF conversion, new wastegate, remap etc. I forgot to say above but the wastegate is crap and replacement with a dual port type (£450 exchange) will get a genuine 280bhp after a remap. Stock cars nowadays struggle to get over 200 because the wastegates are weak and it's pointless sticking with the standard type as it's a poor design. After this work it had very good figures in a leakdown test and the bottom end was pronounced very fit. Even after running with an emptying sump for 15 minutes it has only slight marking on No. 4 main bearing. I am seriously considering buying the trashed S2 block and spare crank from the guy who has the cracked head to build a 3.2 turbo - they only run in the States so far but spin the wheels in third on dry tarmac with 600+bhp.
Fen
IIRC he was quoted £5k for a recon engine by the Porsche dealer (that wasn't the most expensive). He is buying a warranted s/h engine from a trusted Porsche dismantler because he needs the car on the road for Easter (for £2,200 IIRC).
Had he more time (and contrary to what those who 'know' usually say) he could have got the bores recoated for £600. He needs a head (but cracking isn't very common and is S2 specific - the 8v head doesn't suffer AFAIK) but a tired engine would need 3 angle seats and new guides / valves at max (16 valves is going to cost £800 at least though...). Rings are nothing special ditto crank, rods, bearings etc. It won't take an horrific time to rebuild and specialists charge £30/hour upwards for labour.
All that said though, provided the car has been treated with some mechanical sympathy and has been serviced correctly, with decent oil etc. then they go on and on.
My Turbo is currently in bits after 153,000 miles but only because I holed the sump. When its head gasket went (149k) I spent a fair bit rebuilding the top end and modding it with a hybrid turbo, MAF conversion, new wastegate, remap etc. I forgot to say above but the wastegate is crap and replacement with a dual port type (£450 exchange) will get a genuine 280bhp after a remap. Stock cars nowadays struggle to get over 200 because the wastegates are weak and it's pointless sticking with the standard type as it's a poor design. After this work it had very good figures in a leakdown test and the bottom end was pronounced very fit. Even after running with an emptying sump for 15 minutes it has only slight marking on No. 4 main bearing. I am seriously considering buying the trashed S2 block and spare crank from the guy who has the cracked head to build a 3.2 turbo - they only run in the States so far but spin the wheels in third on dry tarmac with 600+bhp.
Fen
06 April 2003, 10:02 PM
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To answer your question specifically I know of a few that are still going (very) strong at 175k+.
I'm not ruling any S2 Cabrios out on mileage but I will be checking the condition of the cam sprockets before I buy, even if the car shows 40k on the odometer. My daily driver does 1,000 miles a week BTW and reliability is important but not a worry with a proper 944.
Fen
I'm not ruling any S2 Cabrios out on mileage but I will be checking the condition of the cam sprockets before I buy, even if the car shows 40k on the odometer. My daily driver does 1,000 miles a week BTW and reliability is important but not a worry with a proper 944.
Fen
04 June 2003, 01:05 PM
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How much are good Porsche 944 S2s going for these days? What sort of mileage should put me off?
Any owners opinions on them?
Are they noticeably cheaper to run than the Turbos? Or is the late model Turbo worth the extra?
[Edited by TurboBoost - 4/6/2003 1:08:52 PM]
Any owners opinions on them?
Are they noticeably cheaper to run than the Turbos? Or is the late model Turbo worth the extra?
[Edited by TurboBoost - 4/6/2003 1:08:52 PM]
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