High mileage Porkers...risky?
04 March 2003, 12:50 AM
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Its Gastro - I'm a gastroenterologist - not a professional revenue generator 
although the divisions become more grey in the private sector 
Believe me - I'd have a 968 - it was just the comparison to my 911 3.2 that made me balance towards the latter (for several reasons - not least that I'd spent a small fortune getting my 911 right !!!).
968's are cracking cars that should go on and on - 3 litres in 4 cyclinders means LOTS of torque and the car has fantastic, safe handling.... If I was buying now, I'd buy one.
968's - essentially a re-dressed 944 - and thats no bad thing ! Essentially the main things are relatively simple to look out for - I've listed them below, but Fen knows a lot about 944's and I'm sure will comment on this...
- Engines are sound - need cam/balance belts changing every 40k miles to be safe. Write this into the cost if they havent been done - just for peace of mind. Watch out for oil leaks.
- clutches are consumable items remember ! but should last 60+k miles depending on abuse - circa £800-£1k
- Leaking hatches are a pain to fix
- The 6speed box is good - but can of course start showing signs of wear and tear --> expensive
- Geometry - something to get setup once you have the car
- Brakes/Pads - relatively inexpensive - but assume they will need some work circa £300-400 for the fronts
- A lot of them have noisy PAS at low speed - I believe this is normal and doesnt need attention
- Usual HPI stuff....
- Get an OPC inspection - it costs about £100-150 and will highlight all the usual stuff and well worth the money
The one to live with is the Sport - the Club Sport (stripped out version) is becoming collectable but probably too 'hard' for long regular journey's (esp if its got the M030 suspension which is fantastic for the track).....Avoid the tiptronic - with higher miles they are soon going to need some attention and they arent cheap to fix !!!
Remember there weren't many made and are relativley thin on the ground. Prices from the dealers are about £15-18k depending on condition, miles etc
I know of 2 up for sale (privately) - one that I looked at and I know the chap is negotiable on price (£14995 ono) and one with only 12k miles on the clock
(£18995 ono). If you are interested drop me a line and I'll put you in touch with the chap.
The car I looked at had 60k miles was in very good order - but needed the cam belts, new tyres and a service (thats a total of more than £1200 before you start! ).
Can't think of anything else at the moment...
Cheers,
Gastro
[Edited by Gastro - 4/3/2003 12:55:14 AM]
although the divisions become more grey in the private sector Believe me - I'd have a 968 - it was just the comparison to my 911 3.2 that made me balance towards the latter (for several reasons - not least that I'd spent a small fortune getting my 911 right !!!).
968's are cracking cars that should go on and on - 3 litres in 4 cyclinders means LOTS of torque and the car has fantastic, safe handling.... If I was buying now, I'd buy one.
968's - essentially a re-dressed 944 - and thats no bad thing ! Essentially the main things are relatively simple to look out for - I've listed them below, but Fen knows a lot about 944's and I'm sure will comment on this...
- Engines are sound - need cam/balance belts changing every 40k miles to be safe. Write this into the cost if they havent been done - just for peace of mind. Watch out for oil leaks.
- clutches are consumable items remember ! but should last 60+k miles depending on abuse - circa £800-£1k
- Leaking hatches are a pain to fix
- The 6speed box is good - but can of course start showing signs of wear and tear --> expensive
- Geometry - something to get setup once you have the car
- Brakes/Pads - relatively inexpensive - but assume they will need some work circa £300-400 for the fronts
- A lot of them have noisy PAS at low speed - I believe this is normal and doesnt need attention
- Usual HPI stuff....
- Get an OPC inspection - it costs about £100-150 and will highlight all the usual stuff and well worth the money
The one to live with is the Sport - the Club Sport (stripped out version) is becoming collectable but probably too 'hard' for long regular journey's (esp if its got the M030 suspension which is fantastic for the track).....Avoid the tiptronic - with higher miles they are soon going to need some attention and they arent cheap to fix !!!
Remember there weren't many made and are relativley thin on the ground. Prices from the dealers are about £15-18k depending on condition, miles etc
I know of 2 up for sale (privately) - one that I looked at and I know the chap is negotiable on price (£14995 ono) and one with only 12k miles on the clock
(£18995 ono). If you are interested drop me a line and I'll put you in touch with the chap.The car I looked at had 60k miles was in very good order - but needed the cam belts, new tyres and a service (thats a total of more than £1200 before you start! ).
Can't think of anything else at the moment...
Cheers,
Gastro
[Edited by Gastro - 4/3/2003 12:55:14 AM]
02 April 2003, 10:27 PM
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Hi chaps n chapasses.
Still thinking about 968's, Gatso, read your thread on the 968 you looked at, what didnt you like about it?
How realiable is the 968 generally? would i be mad in purchasing one for hacking around day to day? 25/30k a year.
i read an article about porkers with FOPC history and it was saying its the most recent stuff you need worry about, having details of what happened 6 years ago is irellavant? its the shape its in most recent that counts, this is what it was mostly saying.
So bearing in mind most 968s are probably 60k to 120k are these going to be a finacial disaster? are they prone to certain bugbears? i dont mean wear and tear suspension etc.
My main objective that im thinking about is running a older more interesting car like a 968 and hopefully wont loose quite as much as the newer cars ive been running to date.
Suppose servicing and repairs is to be taken into consideration
Any views welcome?
Lee
Still thinking about 968's, Gatso, read your thread on the 968 you looked at, what didnt you like about it?
How realiable is the 968 generally? would i be mad in purchasing one for hacking around day to day? 25/30k a year.
i read an article about porkers with FOPC history and it was saying its the most recent stuff you need worry about, having details of what happened 6 years ago is irellavant? its the shape its in most recent that counts, this is what it was mostly saying.
So bearing in mind most 968s are probably 60k to 120k are these going to be a finacial disaster? are they prone to certain bugbears? i dont mean wear and tear suspension etc.
My main objective that im thinking about is running a older more interesting car like a 968 and hopefully wont loose quite as much as the newer cars ive been running to date.
Suppose servicing and repairs is to be taken into consideration
Any views welcome?
Lee
02 April 2003, 10:42 PM
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Hey Lee. We did a PDI on a really nice little blue car today that is deffinatley worth a look. We have it in stock at the moment but I havn't got a discount price sorted yet. It's sexy as, and handles better than, but it ain't no porsche. But neither are the service or repair prices.
03 April 2003, 12:00 AM
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With any car with higher miles - they will cost more to run, but generally residuals are solid. Once your over the 100k miles prices drop again (a little) - more from a psychological barrier than anything else...
Oh - and the rear diff bearings are another thing to look out for - £1500 to fix
Gastro
Oh - and the rear diff bearings are another thing to look out for - £1500 to fix
Gastro
03 April 2003, 04:30 AM
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I'll post a bit, but I'm up this early for a reason,so it'll be quick. I'll try to remember to look back later and post more.
Gastro has been pretty comprehensive. The chain between the cams is a biggie as it wasn't part of the Porsche maintenance schedule to check it
and if it's neglected long enough then the sprockets wear and they are part of the cams... I paid £1,300 to get this fixed on a 944 S2 and the 968 has variable timing so it can only cost more. I read recently either replace the chain and tensioner at 45k or the cams at 90k, which sounds about right.
I believe the 6-speeder is weak in comparison to the 944 5-speeder, but I forget why.
The steering does indeed howl on some cars. A fluid change usually helps.
The brakes (if they are the same as the 944 S2 & Turbo - I think they are) can corrode. There's a steel plate in the aluminium calliper (to prevent the pads wearing through the ally) that reacts with the ally and swells, sticking the pads. The callipers need a refurb to cure it at about 10 years old,but 968's are hitting 10 about now... Again I paid £1,300 for a brake overhaul on my Turbo (pissed me right off since I would have had a 'Big Red' upgrade if I'd known ho much it would be).
I need to hit the road now but if it helps I'm currently looking for an S2 cabrio to use every day and I do 50,000 miles a year. I don't have £15k to spend, but I'd seriously suggest a later 944 is (possibly) a better bet than an early 968 as well as half the price and basically the same car.
Fen
Gastro has been pretty comprehensive. The chain between the cams is a biggie as it wasn't part of the Porsche maintenance schedule to check it
and if it's neglected long enough then the sprockets wear and they are part of the cams... I paid £1,300 to get this fixed on a 944 S2 and the 968 has variable timing so it can only cost more. I read recently either replace the chain and tensioner at 45k or the cams at 90k, which sounds about right.I believe the 6-speeder is weak in comparison to the 944 5-speeder, but I forget why.
The steering does indeed howl on some cars. A fluid change usually helps.
The brakes (if they are the same as the 944 S2 & Turbo - I think they are) can corrode. There's a steel plate in the aluminium calliper (to prevent the pads wearing through the ally) that reacts with the ally and swells, sticking the pads. The callipers need a refurb to cure it at about 10 years old,but 968's are hitting 10 about now... Again I paid £1,300 for a brake overhaul on my Turbo (pissed me right off since I would have had a 'Big Red' upgrade if I'd known ho much it would be).
I need to hit the road now but if it helps I'm currently looking for an S2 cabrio to use every day and I do 50,000 miles a year. I don't have £15k to spend, but I'd seriously suggest a later 944 is (possibly) a better bet than an early 968 as well as half the price and basically the same car.
Fen
03 April 2003, 08:07 AM
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Cheers GASTRO sorry! cheers Fen!
Yeah afte reading all that ive just GULPED
Saying that i do ike the 944 too! the late S2's are still nice looking cars, its very honest views youve both given me, worrys me a tad!
But i suppose the money im loosing every month on the audi and the monthlys amount to a fair bit. so if i was to go down that routeit may not be to bad.
The late S2's cxcan be had for very sensible money! ive been looking at 911virgin.com and they have a couple of 968's and a 944. would it be better top pay over the odds and buy from a porsche dealer? or a independent like virgin. ive spoke to them on the phone and seem very honest.
Fen i also like the 944 cab, still looks the business! if our planning to do 50k a year in one they must be slightly reliable!
cheers Lee
sorry! cheers Fen!Yeah afte reading all that ive just GULPED
Saying that i do ike the 944 too! the late S2's are still nice looking cars, its very honest views youve both given me, worrys me a tad!
But i suppose the money im loosing every month on the audi and the monthlys amount to a fair bit. so if i was to go down that routeit may not be to bad.
The late S2's cxcan be had for very sensible money! ive been looking at 911virgin.com and they have a couple of 968's and a 944. would it be better top pay over the odds and buy from a porsche dealer? or a independent like virgin. ive spoke to them on the phone and seem very honest.
Fen i also like the 944 cab, still looks the business! if our planning to do 50k a year in one they must be slightly reliable!
cheers Lee
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03 April 2003, 08:12 AM
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Cheers GASTRO sorry! cheers Fen!
Yeah afte reading all that ive just GULPED
Saying that i do ike the 944 too! the late S2's are still nice looking cars, its very honest views youve both given me, worrys me a tad!
But i suppose the money im loosing every month on the audi and the monthlys amount to a fair bit. so if i was to go down that routeit may not be to bad.
The late S2's cxcan be had for very sensible money! ive been looking at 911virgin.com and they have a couple of 968's and a 944. would it be better top pay over the odds and buy from a porsche dealer? or a independent like virgin. ive spoke to them on the phone and seem very honest.
Fen i also like the 944 cab, still looks the business! if our planning to do 50k a year in one they must be slightly reliable!
cheers Lee
sorry! cheers Fen!Yeah afte reading all that ive just GULPED
Saying that i do ike the 944 too! the late S2's are still nice looking cars, its very honest views youve both given me, worrys me a tad!
But i suppose the money im loosing every month on the audi and the monthlys amount to a fair bit. so if i was to go down that routeit may not be to bad.
The late S2's cxcan be had for very sensible money! ive been looking at 911virgin.com and they have a couple of 968's and a 944. would it be better top pay over the odds and buy from a porsche dealer? or a independent like virgin. ive spoke to them on the phone and seem very honest.
Fen i also like the 944 cab, still looks the business! if our planning to do 50k a year in one they must be slightly reliable!
cheers Lee
03 April 2003, 05:00 PM
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Once you get one sorted they'll go on and on.
I'm hoping to sell my Ibiza and sink about 2/3 of what I get into a 944 cab. I'll then hang onto the rest of the cash until I see what the cab needs doing and fix what needs to be. The rest then goes on rebuilding the Turbo's engine, then I'll have the best of both worlds with a standard S2 cabrio and a modded Turbo coupe.
Henry at 911virgin is a top bloke. I put a 911 on with him sale or return after trying to get shot privately off and on for almost a year. He sold it in 2 months (and actually advertised it, not just put it on his website) and returned me £250 more than we originally agreed.
Main dealer stuff has to be under 7 years and 70k to qualify as a Porsche Approved used car IIRC, and the 968 finished in '95, so they'll all be too old. Some main dealers will still sell them but unless the policy has changed your warranty and comeback will be through the dealer rather than Porsche. It used to be said that you paid 15% extra from a main dealer - you can decide for yourself if that's worth it.
There are a few good independents as well as Henry:
Shirleys of Meriden (I got my current turbo there), Hartech and Paul Stephens to name a few. Get 911 & Porsche World to see the ads.
There's now a Porsche forum supported by the Porsche Club GB (well worth joining the club if you get one) but open to non-members IIRC here
Fen
I'm hoping to sell my Ibiza and sink about 2/3 of what I get into a 944 cab. I'll then hang onto the rest of the cash until I see what the cab needs doing and fix what needs to be. The rest then goes on rebuilding the Turbo's engine, then I'll have the best of both worlds with a standard S2 cabrio and a modded Turbo coupe.
Henry at 911virgin is a top bloke. I put a 911 on with him sale or return after trying to get shot privately off and on for almost a year. He sold it in 2 months (and actually advertised it, not just put it on his website) and returned me £250 more than we originally agreed.
Main dealer stuff has to be under 7 years and 70k to qualify as a Porsche Approved used car IIRC, and the 968 finished in '95, so they'll all be too old. Some main dealers will still sell them but unless the policy has changed your warranty and comeback will be through the dealer rather than Porsche. It used to be said that you paid 15% extra from a main dealer - you can decide for yourself if that's worth it.
There are a few good independents as well as Henry:
Shirleys of Meriden (I got my current turbo there), Hartech and Paul Stephens to name a few. Get 911 & Porsche World to see the ads.
There's now a Porsche forum supported by the Porsche Club GB (well worth joining the club if you get one) but open to non-members IIRC here
Fen
03 April 2003, 11:26 PM
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Thanks again Fen.
Ive ben biyying 911 Porche world on and off now for a couple of years.
Just been reading an article from Nov. 2001 about the A arm failing on later 944's due to a non serviceable ball joint!
thats quite a costly repair! im efo getting into the porkers now! ive also reading about 993's too.
maybe keep the audi and run it into the ground and get a 993 in a cuple of years? i like the look of them and classic insurance on a second car would be very liveable!
any 993 owners lurking?
Lee
Ive ben biyying 911 Porche world on and off now for a couple of years.
Just been reading an article from Nov. 2001 about the A arm failing on later 944's due to a non serviceable ball joint!
thats quite a costly repair! im efo getting into the porkers now! ive also reading about 993's too.
maybe keep the audi and run it into the ground and get a 993 in a cuple of years? i like the look of them and classic insurance on a second car would be very liveable!
any 993 owners lurking?
Lee
04 April 2003, 12:09 AM
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993's are more my pot
I've researched them alot - 'cos they are the mommy of 911's at the moment.....
No belts - so thats fine...
clutch - as usual
geometry - count on it - they are difficult things to set properly...expect up to a day's work........or change your tyres every 4k miles
Gearbox - pretty good...
Haydraulic tappets - so no BIG services....
The rest as above....
993's fetch a premium 'cos they are relatively low maintenance - but don't expect to get away with every service.. Residuals are good and will hold for the moment.
The 993 is the car of the moment IMHO - don't wait - DO IT - but you start at £30k for a good one.
Gastro
I've researched them alot - 'cos they are the mommy of 911's at the moment.....
No belts - so thats fine...
clutch - as usual
geometry - count on it - they are difficult things to set properly...expect up to a day's work........or change your tyres every 4k miles
Gearbox - pretty good...
Haydraulic tappets - so no BIG services....
The rest as above....
993's fetch a premium 'cos they are relatively low maintenance - but don't expect to get away with every service.. Residuals are good and will hold for the moment.
The 993 is the car of the moment IMHO - don't wait - DO IT - but you start at £30k for a good one.
Gastro
04 April 2003, 12:19 AM
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Hiya Gastro!
I couldnt afford one just yet as im still paying the audi off which is a 02 so a wee while to go!
But maybe in a couple of years, maybe even LHD as theyre are cheaper.
If i keep my Tdi Q for a hack and get93 for a blast and the odd trackday!
My mate works at Parker & Parker Porsche garage so id have to drag him along!
i went to Parkers for my work experiance in the garage and i remember a 911 been on te ramps having geometry sorted for quite somtime!
To quicken things up id like a 964 but ive been reading GT Porsche mags buyers guide about them and sounds scary! im not ready for a full assault on a rebuild yet!
But a 964 with 17 inch Cups looks the danglies too!
just wary about oil leaks and head bolts!
Lee
I couldnt afford one just yet as im still paying the audi off which is a 02 so a wee while to go!
But maybe in a couple of years, maybe even LHD as theyre are cheaper.
If i keep my Tdi Q for a hack and get93 for a blast and the odd trackday!
My mate works at Parker & Parker Porsche garage so id have to drag him along!
i went to Parkers for my work experiance in the garage and i remember a 911 been on te ramps having geometry sorted for quite somtime!
To quicken things up id like a 964 but ive been reading GT Porsche mags buyers guide about them and sounds scary! im not ready for a full assault on a rebuild yet!
But a 964 with 17 inch Cups looks the danglies too!
just wary about oil leaks and head bolts!
Lee
04 April 2003, 12:53 PM
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You can get the A-arms refurbed for £150 a side.
A mate's A4 needed suspension bushes that are integral and they were £240 a side IIRC.
I've never had to replace a suspension arm and I've owned 8 of them so far (and driven 70k miles on them).
Fen
A mate's A4 needed suspension bushes that are integral and they were £240 a side IIRC.
I've never had to replace a suspension arm and I've owned 8 of them so far (and driven 70k miles on them).
Fen
04 April 2003, 08:57 PM
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The 993 is the car of the moment IMHO - don't wait - DO IT - but you start at £30k for a good one.
05 April 2003, 08:54 AM
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If anyone's interested theres a really nice red 968 sport for sale at Hamiltons in Bristol at the moment. 2 owners and 54k FPSH. Bit pricey at £15995 but they would probably come down.
Only thing against the car is that its only got 16" wheels on it.
Condition is v v good.
Only thing against the car is that its only got 16" wheels on it.
Condition is v v good.
05 April 2003, 11:12 PM
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Cheers Wilf! but im not quite ready to buy yet.
Fen theres been a couple of 968 sports at 911virgin.com with 16 inch wheels? i know the CS comes with 17 inch not sure about the sports?? look much better with 17's!
Ive seen 2 944's in the last two days, and a couple of 911's, i think im back on the 944/968 route again, if i want to realistically keep my new audi and get a porker for the odd blast and trackday use i couldnt justify spending 25k on a 993 to sit in the garage for most of the time!
I think IMHO 944/968 would probably suit my needs better, if i bent it on track i wouldnt be as concerned in a 8k/10k car than in a 25k car!
If i go the 944 turbo route, it would be quick and cheap to insure on classic insurance, but maybe the 968s or CS may ultimately handle better on the circuit.
Fen cheers for the advice regarding the A arm milarky!
Lee
Fen theres been a couple of 968 sports at 911virgin.com with 16 inch wheels? i know the CS comes with 17 inch not sure about the sports?? look much better with 17's!
Ive seen 2 944's in the last two days, and a couple of 911's, i think im back on the 944/968 route again, if i want to realistically keep my new audi and get a porker for the odd blast and trackday use i couldnt justify spending 25k on a 993 to sit in the garage for most of the time!
I think IMHO 944/968 would probably suit my needs better, if i bent it on track i wouldnt be as concerned in a 8k/10k car than in a 25k car!
If i go the 944 turbo route, it would be quick and cheap to insure on classic insurance, but maybe the 968s or CS may ultimately handle better on the circuit.
Fen cheers for the advice regarding the A arm milarky!
Lee
07 April 2003, 09:07 PM
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Thanks for supporting 911uk Chris! We've had a few mentions on this forum before, resulting in numerous registrations, lots more traffic and of course, kind comments Cheers guys.
Phil (911uk.com)
Cheers guys.Phil (911uk.com)
08 April 2003, 07:23 AM
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Lee,
There was a vanilla 968, the 968 CS and a UK only 968 Sport. The Sport had the CS suspension, wheels etc. but the interior of the normal car (i.e. big seats, frequently climate, sunroof, rear seats etc.). Only the ordinary 968 had 16's and it is the least desirable variant in the UK by some margin. 16" Cup style wheels look pants as well.
Fen
There was a vanilla 968, the 968 CS and a UK only 968 Sport. The Sport had the CS suspension, wheels etc. but the interior of the normal car (i.e. big seats, frequently climate, sunroof, rear seats etc.). Only the ordinary 968 had 16's and it is the least desirable variant in the UK by some margin. 16" Cup style wheels look pants as well.
Fen
10 April 2003, 12:58 AM
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Cheers Fen! your right the 16 inchers look crap!
Theres some nice S2's foresale for cheap money! D yu think i would be better ultimately with the S2 for the odd run and trackday use or the 968? ive been questioning about 964 and 3.2s over on 911uk.
they trhink i might be happier with the 3.2 carrera, like Gastros i presume?
Having never driven a 911 and only been a passenger in 993 RS at Donno with a very capable driver would i get more useable fun from the 944? and running cosdts would be cheaper?
I ask you guys (Fen and Gastro) as you have experience in the vehicles in question.
What colours best avoided in the 944 for resale?
Fen there was a white 944 cab on Findit.co.uk with 12500 miles on! wasnt cheap though! think it was on a 91.
Lee
Theres some nice S2's foresale for cheap money! D yu think i would be better ultimately with the S2 for the odd run and trackday use or the 968? ive been questioning about 964 and 3.2s over on 911uk.
they trhink i might be happier with the 3.2 carrera, like Gastros i presume?
Having never driven a 911 and only been a passenger in 993 RS at Donno with a very capable driver would i get more useable fun from the 944? and running cosdts would be cheaper?
I ask you guys (Fen and Gastro) as you have experience in the vehicles in question.
What colours best avoided in the 944 for resale?
Fen there was a white 944 cab on Findit.co.uk with 12500 miles on! wasnt cheap though! think it was on a 91.
Lee
10 April 2003, 10:12 PM
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Lee,
My first Porsche was a 3.2 Carrera - like Gastro's but older, although it was only 9 when I got it.
The 944 is easier to live with as a daily driver 'cos it has things like a heater that you can control (I know they can be made to work in the 911 but I've had two and one was always hot the other always cold) and a more modern cabin generally.
I did a trackday in my 3.2 (Knockhill) and found it quite easy to slide around. I even had it sideways (deliberately) on a wet roundabout when I was taking it home after I bought it - the trip was 550 miles, but I still didn't know the car that well so you can see how intuitive they feel. The only other car I've had sideways before I got it home was the RB5.
A properly aligned 911 would be far easier to drive quickly than an out of alignment 944 (and vice versa). If both are set up properly you could probably take the 944 to 9/10 if you wanted without a problem, the 911 maybe only 8/10 'cos they can bite more quickly if you get caught out, but as I said they are docile enough to get very sideways just for the hell of it - I wouldn't want to lose one at the limit though (as opposed to provoking it while going much slower).
I really can't see the point of paying the premium for a 968 over a 944 S2 TBH. If you have £15k to spend though the 3.2 has to become a serious consideration. The decision depends on which you prefer after driving both (you need to drive both because aside from the badge and the build quality they are chalk and cheese in many respects). Personally I prefer the 911 and if I'd known my 944 Turbo was going to owe me £20k by now and still just be a toy then I'd have bought a late 3.2 Carrera insead. As it happens I bought it for £8k as a daily driver because everyday use for me means too many miles for a 911 - they are a bit too wearing to do 3 figure miles every day (and IIRC you do 30k/year?) and ended up throwing another £12k at mods.
If your pockets are deep enough to spend £15k+ on a second car then by all means get a 911 if you like them when you drive one (they are awesome - you don't know good steering until you've driven an unassisted 911, the throttle response is telepathic and the noise is awesome) - it won't cost much more than an S2 / 968 to run.
If you want to use your Porsche every day or if you would rather spend under £10k then get a '44. If you go that route then get an S2 if you want to leave it standard and use the lazy torque or get a Turbo if you want to tweak it. The 968 Sport and Club Sport are great, but they're only suspension and brakes different to an 944 S2 or Turbo in terms of driving pleasure and you can fit the Koni's for a lot less than the difference in price, and taking heavy things out is free.
Colour-wise I think only the champagne gold and white are the colours to avoid - for resale you won't go wrong with red (although I hate red Porsches (sorry Gastro)) or black and most of the metallics are still quite contemporary. Baltic blue was an early S2 favourite and Cobalt blue replaced it and is very desirable. There was a red metallic that I don't much like, but it wasn't common on later cars and possibly isn't bad news anyhow. There aren't many silver 944's but my Turbo looks silver although it is actually Glacier blue.
Probably burgundy is the least desirable interior colour. Other options were black, Marine (dark) blue, Cobalt (mid) blue and Linen (cream) with either black or blue dash & door tops. Trim-wise the pinstripe velour is very dated (although you could say that about the 'linen' colour that my turbo has), 'logo' cloth is quite nice and quite hard wearing, and leather will never go ogut of fashion.
Options that are desirable are leather, LSD, climate with air-con - (S2's have a basic climate with no air-con as standard), Hi-Fi pack (basically the door pockets are full of speakers), 'bridge' spoiler (MY '90 for Turbos and MY '91- for S2) and 'M30' suspension. There were also heated and electric seats etc. but who cares about that sort of stuff in a sports car?
Hopefully not too long a post and hopefully useful. All the above IMHO of course
Fen
My first Porsche was a 3.2 Carrera - like Gastro's but older, although it was only 9 when I got it.
The 944 is easier to live with as a daily driver 'cos it has things like a heater that you can control (I know they can be made to work in the 911 but I've had two and one was always hot the other always cold) and a more modern cabin generally.
I did a trackday in my 3.2 (Knockhill) and found it quite easy to slide around. I even had it sideways (deliberately) on a wet roundabout when I was taking it home after I bought it - the trip was 550 miles, but I still didn't know the car that well so you can see how intuitive they feel. The only other car I've had sideways before I got it home was the RB5.
A properly aligned 911 would be far easier to drive quickly than an out of alignment 944 (and vice versa). If both are set up properly you could probably take the 944 to 9/10 if you wanted without a problem, the 911 maybe only 8/10 'cos they can bite more quickly if you get caught out, but as I said they are docile enough to get very sideways just for the hell of it - I wouldn't want to lose one at the limit though (as opposed to provoking it while going much slower).
I really can't see the point of paying the premium for a 968 over a 944 S2 TBH. If you have £15k to spend though the 3.2 has to become a serious consideration. The decision depends on which you prefer after driving both (you need to drive both because aside from the badge and the build quality they are chalk and cheese in many respects). Personally I prefer the 911 and if I'd known my 944 Turbo was going to owe me £20k by now and still just be a toy then I'd have bought a late 3.2 Carrera insead. As it happens I bought it for £8k as a daily driver because everyday use for me means too many miles for a 911 - they are a bit too wearing to do 3 figure miles every day (and IIRC you do 30k/year?) and ended up throwing another £12k at mods.
If your pockets are deep enough to spend £15k+ on a second car then by all means get a 911 if you like them when you drive one (they are awesome - you don't know good steering until you've driven an unassisted 911, the throttle response is telepathic and the noise is awesome) - it won't cost much more than an S2 / 968 to run.
If you want to use your Porsche every day or if you would rather spend under £10k then get a '44. If you go that route then get an S2 if you want to leave it standard and use the lazy torque or get a Turbo if you want to tweak it. The 968 Sport and Club Sport are great, but they're only suspension and brakes different to an 944 S2 or Turbo in terms of driving pleasure and you can fit the Koni's for a lot less than the difference in price, and taking heavy things out is free.
Colour-wise I think only the champagne gold and white are the colours to avoid - for resale you won't go wrong with red (although I hate red Porsches (sorry Gastro)) or black and most of the metallics are still quite contemporary. Baltic blue was an early S2 favourite and Cobalt blue replaced it and is very desirable. There was a red metallic that I don't much like, but it wasn't common on later cars and possibly isn't bad news anyhow. There aren't many silver 944's but my Turbo looks silver although it is actually Glacier blue.
Probably burgundy is the least desirable interior colour. Other options were black, Marine (dark) blue, Cobalt (mid) blue and Linen (cream) with either black or blue dash & door tops. Trim-wise the pinstripe velour is very dated (although you could say that about the 'linen' colour that my turbo has), 'logo' cloth is quite nice and quite hard wearing, and leather will never go ogut of fashion.
Options that are desirable are leather, LSD, climate with air-con - (S2's have a basic climate with no air-con as standard), Hi-Fi pack (basically the door pockets are full of speakers), 'bridge' spoiler (MY '90 for Turbos and MY '91- for S2) and 'M30' suspension. There were also heated and electric seats etc. but who cares about that sort of stuff in a sports car?
Hopefully not too long a post and hopefully useful. All the above IMHO of course
Fen
10 April 2003, 11:27 PM
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cheers Fen that was very informative!
ive been thinking more about this, its been occupying my mind most days, as i like to know where im aiming for to give me the motivation to save and go for it.
im defo keeping the audi as a daily driver, its quick and economical, and its probably good for 150k, im sick of replacing with new machinery and losing a fortune due to mileage.
now for which porsche, my heart says spend lots and buy a 911, but my head says this car is a second car and will only be used at weekends and the odd trackday, so i dont really want to stick thousands into a toy. (still doing lots to the house)
so if i spend around 8k im gonna end up with a nice 944 or a very old 911, i think the 944 would be a better bet?
a nice 944 S2 with coilovers on and a good geometry set up should handle very well id imagine on track? plus i could drive it abroad to the ring etc without doing my head in. as that is one of my aims!
i think if i spent more on a 911 id end up pampering it to much and not pushing it on the track.;(
i enquired about a 944 s2 on pistonheads, 127k looked tidy had history, 5995! on a f plate, sold as you would imagine but at those kinda prices its alot of motor for your cash.
would you advise gettin a OPC check over on a 944 of that sort of value or are the vendors going to laugh with it costing 6/8k?
im put off by the turbos as they may suffer more abuse and more likely to go wrong id imagine as the age increases.
dont know what you think on some of the points ive made?
Cheers Lee
ive been thinking more about this, its been occupying my mind most days, as i like to know where im aiming for to give me the motivation to save and go for it.
im defo keeping the audi as a daily driver, its quick and economical, and its probably good for 150k, im sick of replacing with new machinery and losing a fortune due to mileage.
now for which porsche, my heart says spend lots and buy a 911, but my head says this car is a second car and will only be used at weekends and the odd trackday, so i dont really want to stick thousands into a toy. (still doing lots to the house)
so if i spend around 8k im gonna end up with a nice 944 or a very old 911, i think the 944 would be a better bet?
a nice 944 S2 with coilovers on and a good geometry set up should handle very well id imagine on track? plus i could drive it abroad to the ring etc without doing my head in. as that is one of my aims!
i think if i spent more on a 911 id end up pampering it to much and not pushing it on the track.;(
i enquired about a 944 s2 on pistonheads, 127k looked tidy had history, 5995! on a f plate, sold as you would imagine but at those kinda prices its alot of motor for your cash.
would you advise gettin a OPC check over on a 944 of that sort of value or are the vendors going to laugh with it costing 6/8k?
im put off by the turbos as they may suffer more abuse and more likely to go wrong id imagine as the age increases.
dont know what you think on some of the points ive made?
Cheers Lee
11 April 2003, 06:14 PM
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I've just been told about an '86 (D) 944 Turbo in Guards red coming from a trader for £4,995. 113k with FSH, described as 'almost mint'.
It'll be a 220bhp car and as such leather and LSD was optional (so it probably hasn't got either) but it's a cheaper alternative to an early S2 if anyone fancies it (with air-con).
Fen
It'll be a 220bhp car and as such leather and LSD was optional (so it probably hasn't got either) but it's a cheaper alternative to an early S2 if anyone fancies it (with air-con).
Fen
13 April 2003, 10:53 PM
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Cheers Fen! thanks for your time!
Ive been lookng at the Turbo as it will be 8v and wont have the chain problems? and 400 quid for a turbo aint bad, like you say chuck in a remap and wastegate and you have a nice weekend toy!
Nice one Mate, iill let you know how i get on!
Lee
Ive been lookng at the Turbo as it will be 8v and wont have the chain problems? and 400 quid for a turbo aint bad, like you say chuck in a remap and wastegate and you have a nice weekend toy!
Nice one Mate, iill let you know how i get on!
Lee
