Luke

Is that all??? No dawes device???

[Edited by Luke - 2/1/2003 9:55:21 PM]

MooseRacer

I'd suggest getting some different tyres if ever the top speed is attempted

[Edited by MooseRacer - 2/1/2003 10:04:00 PM]

scooby nutter

After todays session at g force the Norris Designs Evo 7 hits 715bhp

what a beast.

more can be found on the mlr forums
www.lancerregister.com

nigel s

I was there for most of the day, cold but some nice motors. Not many scoobs, although a nice 22b did turn up later After speaking with Simon norris he is searching for some bigger injectors. The 1000cc current injectors are holding back the power

scooby nutter

would have loved to have been there,one long drive from Blackpool though.

what do you reckon? 1000bhp soon

StanS

iTrader: (3)

Will it hold together until the fuel tank needs refilling ?
Stan

steve McCulloch

Any spec on this evo?

Is it still the 2.2 stroker kit?

If its a single turbo I doubt its very useable on the road

I've been in a 550bhp Cossie which took ages to spin up.. at 715 bhp I cant see it hitting decent boost until at least 5000 rpm!

nigel s

Here you are

nigel s

Here you are, spec below

Engin Mods:
Engine - 4 Cylinder 16 Valve
Power Output - 684 Hp @ 2.1 Bar Boost
(771Hp @ 2.5 Bar Boost)
Torque Output - 578 LbFt @ 2.1 Bar Boost
(643LbFt @ 2.5 Bar Boost)
Target Weight 1200-1250Kg
1/4 Mile Target - Sub 10.5 Secs
Top Speed Target - 215 Mph
ND Boot Mounted Aluminium Fuel Tank
ND Boot Mounted Water Injection Tank
Twin Bosch 044 Fuel Pumps
Twin Dash 8 Fuel Regulators
Twin Post Filters
Twin Pre Filters
Dash 8 Full Fuel Lines
Modified HKS Fuel Rail
1000cc Injectors (Too Small for 2.5 Bar Boost!!!)
JUN Racing Inlet Manifold (80mm Throttle)
ERL Water Injection System
Motec Engine Management With Launch Control
4 Bar TTE Map Sensor
HKS Hiper Muffler Exhaust
HKS De-Cat Pipe
HKS Cam Pulleys
ND Valve Spring Kit
JUN Camshafts
JUN Titanium Retainers
ND Solid Lifters
ND Racing Cylinder Head
HKS Metal Head Gasket
ARP Head Stud Kit
Tomei Engine Stud Kit
ND GT Spec Forged Piston Kit
JUN Stroker Kit (Not Pistons)
ND Modified Sump
HKS GT3240 Special Full Turbine Kit
ND Oil Cooler Kit
Greddy Intercooler Kit
ND 3" Intercooler Pipes
Ralliart Racing Thermostat
Ralliart Racing Radiator Cap
Samco Water Hoses
Carbon Air Box With Greddy Air Filter
Ralliart Earthing System
Ralliart HT Leads
NGK Racing Spark Plugs
Cusco Catch Tank
Plus Lots Lots More!
Interior Mods:
Carbon Bonnet
Carbon Splitter
Carbon Spoiler
Carbon Grille
Stack Dash 8130P
Motec PLM Display
ERL Water Injection Flow Gauge
Twin 4 Point Harness's
Clear Rear Lights

Chassi Mods:
ND Full Vehicle Graphics
Proflex Suspension
Cusco Three Point Front Strut Brace
Cusco Carbon Rear Strut Brace
Cusco Pillowball Top Mounts
Cusco Front Antiroll Bar
Cusco Rear Antiroll Bar
Ralliart Master Cylinder Support
Cusco Suspension Cradle
Uprated Suspension Bushes
Uprated Rear Diff Bushes
ND Gearbox
ND Twin Plate Push Clutch Kit
76 Racing Lubricants

Brake Mods:
AP Racing Front Brakes 6 Pot 330mm
Brembo Rear Brakes With Greenstuff Pads
R600+ Racing Brake & Clutch Fluid
Mintex F4R Carbon Front Pads

Wheel Mods:
8 X 18" Alloy Wheels
Toyo Proxes 235/40/18

ChrisB

As Steve says, what RPM does it hit 771/643?

Dyno graph would be nice

Hoppy

No way will a barn door-like an Evo do 215mph. Ever. But they obviously know what they're doing with Greenstuff pads in

Not knocking the power, though. Incredible!

Richard.

cryptwalk

Seems most of these "barn doors" were getting good results today...

Evo 4's
- Lee Bridgwater 225 ATW (296bhp flywheel)
- Rob 225 ATW (296bhp flywheel)
- Jason Hilbert 296 ATW (389bhp flywheel)
- Geoff Pool 239 ATW (314bhp flywheel)

Evo 5's
- Darryl 252 ATW (332bhp flywheel)
- JC 276 ATW (363bhp flywheel)
- Shaunevo 295 ATW (388bhp flywheel)
- Richard Fergson 277 ATW (364bhp flywheel)
- Gaz5 327 ATW (430bhp flywheel)
- Jone 314 ATW (413bhp flywheel)

Evo 6's
- BlueEvo6 275 ATW (362bhp flywheel)
- gaz@cpp - could not register due to obscure diff issue
- Greg Bloor 243 ATW (320bhp flywheel)
- W Sparks 223 ATW (293bhp flywheel)
- J Hughes 230 ATW (303bhp flywheel)
- Darryl Hickman 256 ATW (337bhp flywheel)
- Dark Destroyer 294 ATW (387bhp flywheel)
- MA Developments Stage 2 demo 312 ATW (410bhp flywheel)
- Matt Hickman 227 ATW (299bhp flywheel)
- Anthony Gannon 252 ATW (332bhp flywheel)
- Reims96 293 ATW (385bhp flywheel)

Evo 7's
- Johns Red VII 226 ATW (297bhp flywheel)
- AntsEvo 317 ATW (417bhp flywheel)
- Norris Designs 543 ATW (714bhp flywheel)
- MOSI TTVII 310 ATW (408bhp flywheel)
- RC Devs 440 Demo 364 ATW (479bhp flywheel)

Thanks to the Tuners that brought cars out. Big Congrats to Simon Norris for building one of the most powerful Evo's in the world!. Mark Shead for showing us how far you can push a Stage 2 conversion when built properly. And big applause to the RC Devs team - Max/Clive - for coming out and proving what their cars can do. Top stuff - thanks guys.

We will get torque figs etc later in the week.

Tony Montana

Yep a great day at g force today
Norris E7 was incredable


Tony Montana
Say hello to my little freind

Adam M

even at that kind of boost, I dont think the numbers add up for that kind of power from a 2.2 at the kinds of revs that evos pull.

Something doesnt add up.

catflap

LOL at the green stuff they aint good enough for my westy let alone that evo

sounds awsome

steve McCulloch

Rich

I hope your reading this thread.. this has to be our next RR destination... I need to feel happy.....if ya see what I mean...

The Zohan

Yeh but a scoob would have it on the twisties........

I'll get my coat

scooby nutter

theres some vids on the mlr forums with the norris on the rolling road.
dont know what they are like still d/loading them!(56k CR*P)!!

SN
(aka DuncanIV MLR)

IWatkins

Adam,

As you should know, the boost pressure has nothing really to do with power, more important is the amount of charge air flowing at that boost. And I seem to remember that HKS turbo is a big old thing and coupled with a larger throttle body they are getting a lot mroe charge through the engine. I would also guess that this Evo doesn't have a standard rev limiter either

If you don't understand the concept ask one of your tuning buddies face to face as it is easier to explain with a pen and paper.

Cheers

Ian

[Edited by IWatkins - 2/2/2003 5:41:57 PM]

Adam M

sorry ian, but that's bollocks. I will agree that quoting random boost is irrelavant if the turbo cannot flow anything at the figure but I am talking about an equation that assumes infinite turbo flow.
assuming there is sufficient flow to fill the cylinder then
boost pressure has everything to do with power.

The calculation is based on the fact that the turbo can supply infinite air at the boost pressure you insert, the figure for ve (norm 85%) takes into account what the engine can do with the infinite air the turbo is supplying. I.e only 85% of the air being pumped can be put to good use.

In essence, the equation is generous to the turbo, and the numbers still don't add up.

chrisp

Isnt the highly modified Norris EVO the one which JohnF beat in the handling test on the TOTB day in his standard scoob ?

Pavlo

2.5 bar with 75% compressor efficiency would give a turbo outlet temperature of about 188deg C for 20'C inlet.

Intercooler with 80% eff and 15'C ambient would reduce that to about 50'C

Giving overal density ratio of about 3.1 (3.5 would be 100% efficient overall)

If you assume peak power is at 7800 rpm, on a 2.2 engine that would mean 3900 intakes per minute of 2200cc, or 65/sec. Now what happens if you assume 100% VE? (a likely figure is up to 90% given the head work and cams etc)

Looking at the fuel flow.

3900 * 2200 * 3.1 (density ratio) * 1.024 (std density of air) /1000000 (cc/cubic metre) = 27.236 kg/min of air.

Assume 11.5:1 AFR (by mass) gives 2.36 kg/min of fuel.

Fuel = 0.746 kg/1000cc, giving 1767 cc/min of fuel flow.

There are 4 injectors, but only 2 fuel measures per RPM, so the net injector flow rate would be 883 cc/min.

That equates to 88.3 % duty cycles on 1000cc/min injectors at std fuel pressure.

However, at 90% VE, that would drop to 88.3% * 90% = 79.5% Or 795 cc/min net fuel flow per injector.

This is at std fuel pressure, and the Norris team feel they are restricted by injectors, so that would indicate they are already at raised fuel pressure, giving something like 15% more flow. They might also be pushing 85-90% duty cycles if they think the current injectors are marginal, so what does this all mean?

1. The turbo has greater efficiency than 75%, but even if htis is true, it's only going to be in the 75-78% region.
2. The Intercooler is more efficient than 80%, but with RR fans, I doubt it would go much higher.
3. The VE is greater than 90% @ 7800, very unlikely.
4. The peak power spead is higher than 7800rpm, very possible
5. The enigne is greater than 2.2l in capacity, aah, now i think we're in the realms of the realistic!

I won't attempt to predict a power output from the air flow figures for the evo, as they tend to be rather different from a scoob. but on a scoob you would be looking at 5.2cc/hp per injector, giving 611hp at the flywheel for that fuel flow.

Paul

Andy.F

Nice one Paul Perhaps some laughing gas ????

cryptwalk

The one you talk of is the Evo5 run by Norris and I dont think John beat him in any of the events.

Handling course..

C76 Norris Designs Mitsubishi Evo 5 33.26 36.97 33.26

C85 John Felstead Subaru Impreza WRX 34.25 34.37 34.25 34.56 34.67 34.67

C85 John Felstead Subaru Impreza WRX 34.47 35.32 36.03 35.32 36.11 34.98 34.47

C85 John Felstead Subaru Impreza WRX 35.84 44.06 36.69 37.10 35.84 35.90 37.81

C85 John Felstead Subaru Impreza WRX 35.00 36.18 37.23 36.02 35.78 35.43 35.00

Though it looks like he give it a good go.

http://www.200plusclub.com/trackday/results.html

[Edited by cryptwalk - 2/2/2003 10:55:26 PM]

RichiW

That was Simons old car, and Evo5(circa 500bhp), this is not the same one, its his new Evo7.Looks like Ten Of the Best is going to be interesting this year, if the Evo7 rear diff can handle the power unlike the one fitted to his 5 last year that is!

MOSI - TTVII

To cover the schneidy 'optimistic dyno' digs:

One more thing (before the cynics start accusing dyno discrepencies) - I'd say these figs petty much back up the precision of the G-Force dyno.

eg. Johns Red VII made 297bhp in standard form (reputedly the 'unofficial' power fig that the Evo VII's left the factory)

eg. Lee and Rob both got 296bhp on theit IV's with just the zaust/induction Stage 1's on - exactly what you'd expect.

eg. my car was 1bhp different from the last time it was run on the same dyno - so its definately consistant.

You guys should get up there....very good set up indeed. Let the MLR know when you are going if you arrange something - we'll come along and offer our support, just as some of your guys did.

Pavlo

MOSI,

I don't think anyone doubts the power figure, just that the current spec of the Norris EVO is not all that it seems. THe power figure suggests that the capacity is more like 2.3-2.4 rather than 2.2. Notice how the 2.2 stroker pistons aren't used!

Paul

gaz@cpp

On the subject of lag and no power until 5000rpm , the car comes on boost from 3500rpm. You will be able to see the graphs for the car as soon as they are posted on the MLR.

InsBro

Pavlo

I posted the same formula question to Simon a while ago working out maximum bhp from injector size etc. His reply was very interesting and backep up by his engine dyno results.

Jeremy

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)